What on earth does this mean?? (Picture)
Recovery Vehicle
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,169
Likes: 52
From: Tampa, FL
Once again, I don't want to get your hopes up, but it's possible you just have a coolant leak and that the goo under your oil cap was condensation.
But it's not terribly likely, give how often these things blow head gaskets.
I do think you should change the oil, if just to verify there is no coolant in it.
You need to get a pressure tester from Advance and see if you can find a leak. I think we need to try to diagnose this before you take it in. It could be something very simple, and mechanics have been known to misdiagnose problems.
Pump it up and be sure to check the front and rear of the heads very carefully, and you'll have to be laying under the truck with a flashlight to check them. Check every hose connection, the water pump, timing cover, small hoses on top of the engine, and as much of the radiator as you can see.
Another thing to check is when it's leaking.
a) Top it off before driving and then check it that evening after it's cooled down.
b) Then top if off at night after it's cool and see if it's leaked out the next morning.
How much coolant have you lost? I just posted this in another thread, but I was convinced I had a mysterious leak until I realized my coolant level always drops down to about an inch below the FULL line on the reservoir and then stops. I haven't added coolant in months and it's been stable. Later I found out other people see the same behavior. So, if it just leaks down an inch or so in the reservoir, leave it and bring a jug of water. Check it every time before you drive it for a few days. If it stabilizes there I'd just keep a close eye on it for a while.
But it's not terribly likely, give how often these things blow head gaskets.
I do think you should change the oil, if just to verify there is no coolant in it.
You need to get a pressure tester from Advance and see if you can find a leak. I think we need to try to diagnose this before you take it in. It could be something very simple, and mechanics have been known to misdiagnose problems.
Pump it up and be sure to check the front and rear of the heads very carefully, and you'll have to be laying under the truck with a flashlight to check them. Check every hose connection, the water pump, timing cover, small hoses on top of the engine, and as much of the radiator as you can see.
Another thing to check is when it's leaking.
a) Top it off before driving and then check it that evening after it's cooled down.
b) Then top if off at night after it's cool and see if it's leaked out the next morning.
How much coolant have you lost? I just posted this in another thread, but I was convinced I had a mysterious leak until I realized my coolant level always drops down to about an inch below the FULL line on the reservoir and then stops. I haven't added coolant in months and it's been stable. Later I found out other people see the same behavior. So, if it just leaks down an inch or so in the reservoir, leave it and bring a jug of water. Check it every time before you drive it for a few days. If it stabilizes there I'd just keep a close eye on it for a while.
Last edited by dr. mordo; Dec 5, 2013 at 07:51 PM.
Baja
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 5,845
Likes: 368
From: Near Bordeaux, France
Résultats Google Recherche d'images correspondant à http://i00.i.aliimg.com/photo/v3/710663556/RADIATOR_CAP_PRESSURE_TEST_KIT.jpg
This is what a typical coolant/rad pressure test kit looks like.
This is what a typical coolant/rad pressure test kit looks like.
Thread Starter
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Three Wheeling
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Alright guys, the update has arrived. I took my truck out to O'Brien Auto Performance in Tulsa. If you're in Northern OK, I highly recommend them for LR service. They didn't attempt to con me into anything and didn't gouge me for a check up. AND they were very thorough.
At any rate, it's all worse than I thought (I think). Here's what they had to say.
My brake fluid was low--master cylinder is leaking. T-case center pin leaks moderately. Power steering fluid is dirty and pump groans.
Under "leaks," we have: Leaks too severe to diagnose (with accuracy). Likely HG's, oil pan and cross seals, front cover, and valve covers leaking. Coolant leaking from HG's excessively. Rear pinion seal leaking moderately.
Their recommendation? Full engine reseal, 1 of 2 ways: Reseal HG's, oil pan & cross seals, and front cover individually, OR rebuild motor with new top hat cylinder sleeves, new cam, lifters, new rings and bearings, and all new seals/gaskets.
The latter sounds nice but isn't practical for me as I plan to sell the truck and leave the country in a year and a half or so. But he was bummed to hear that because everything else checked out great and the truck is in great shape. He said doing a full rebuild would likely net me another 15 years of use without issue.
To do HG's, their job is about $2900, but that includes a full tune up while the engine is apart. I asked if they could potentially do a pared down HG job for me, and he said he would have to talk to the owner because from their experience they'd rather just do it right one time than have me come back later.
AND of course my only working back door actuator stopped working completely yesterday. So my front driver and pass doors unlock/lock, and my rear pass door and trunk will super lock but not unlock, and my rear drivers door does neither.
My dad offered to take on the HG job with me in his garage, but that's in Tulsa (which means I'd be spending Christmas break week in the garage with him working on my rover instead of with family) and I'd be on a time crunch b/c my wife could go into delivery any day at that point. The guy at O'Brien's said I could maybe eek another year or so out of the car with nothing bad happening and just try to sell it, but... poor guy that buys it from me. He'd have his work cut out for him.
FML.
At any rate, it's all worse than I thought (I think). Here's what they had to say.
My brake fluid was low--master cylinder is leaking. T-case center pin leaks moderately. Power steering fluid is dirty and pump groans.
Under "leaks," we have: Leaks too severe to diagnose (with accuracy). Likely HG's, oil pan and cross seals, front cover, and valve covers leaking. Coolant leaking from HG's excessively. Rear pinion seal leaking moderately.
Their recommendation? Full engine reseal, 1 of 2 ways: Reseal HG's, oil pan & cross seals, and front cover individually, OR rebuild motor with new top hat cylinder sleeves, new cam, lifters, new rings and bearings, and all new seals/gaskets.
The latter sounds nice but isn't practical for me as I plan to sell the truck and leave the country in a year and a half or so. But he was bummed to hear that because everything else checked out great and the truck is in great shape. He said doing a full rebuild would likely net me another 15 years of use without issue.
To do HG's, their job is about $2900, but that includes a full tune up while the engine is apart. I asked if they could potentially do a pared down HG job for me, and he said he would have to talk to the owner because from their experience they'd rather just do it right one time than have me come back later.
AND of course my only working back door actuator stopped working completely yesterday. So my front driver and pass doors unlock/lock, and my rear pass door and trunk will super lock but not unlock, and my rear drivers door does neither.
My dad offered to take on the HG job with me in his garage, but that's in Tulsa (which means I'd be spending Christmas break week in the garage with him working on my rover instead of with family) and I'd be on a time crunch b/c my wife could go into delivery any day at that point. The guy at O'Brien's said I could maybe eek another year or so out of the car with nothing bad happening and just try to sell it, but... poor guy that buys it from me. He'd have his work cut out for him.
FML.
Mudding
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
From: Canterbury, CT
Buy something cheap to drive until you can fix it correctly.
Until I had the time to replace our head gaskets that someone else messed up we bought a well used suburban for $1800 to use "just for the couple of months " it would take me to fix the Rover. And then we would sell it and get our money back. We have four children and my wife is allergic to mini-vans, it saved us thousands for me to do the head gaskets and going in we thought we were going to have the block top hatted.
It took me almost a year to complete the job between working, four children and having a small farm with an old house that needs work. We kept the Suburban and use it to tow the horse trailer my wife bought with the money we "saved" with me doing the work myself.
Until I had the time to replace our head gaskets that someone else messed up we bought a well used suburban for $1800 to use "just for the couple of months " it would take me to fix the Rover. And then we would sell it and get our money back. We have four children and my wife is allergic to mini-vans, it saved us thousands for me to do the head gaskets and going in we thought we were going to have the block top hatted.
It took me almost a year to complete the job between working, four children and having a small farm with an old house that needs work. We kept the Suburban and use it to tow the horse trailer my wife bought with the money we "saved" with me doing the work myself.
Thread Starter
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Three Wheeling
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Nice. It worked out for you to keep the cheap car, but I don't particularly enjoy buying/selling vehicles. Kind of stressful. Maybe it's not so bad when it's just $1k on the line. I seriously don't see this taking more than a couple of weeks, though. Seems like a lot of hassle!
Recovery Vehicle
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,169
Likes: 52
From: Tampa, FL
Well, as I see it you have four options
1) You can pay to fix it
2) You can fix it with your dad
3) Try a sealant like KSeal or the Barrs Leaks Tablets
4) Do no repairs, watch fluid levels
Honestly, if the truck is running fine and the coolant and oil levels are stable, I'd lean towards 3 or 4. A minor coolant leak is much more likely to be 'fixed' with a chemical tool.
If you are worried about the guy who buys your truck, just be completely honest. I'd say "It runs great (assuming it still does), but it may need head gaskets and leaks a lot of oil." I'd tell him what you did and let him decide if he wants to deal with the issues.
1) You can pay to fix it
2) You can fix it with your dad
3) Try a sealant like KSeal or the Barrs Leaks Tablets
4) Do no repairs, watch fluid levels
Honestly, if the truck is running fine and the coolant and oil levels are stable, I'd lean towards 3 or 4. A minor coolant leak is much more likely to be 'fixed' with a chemical tool.
If you are worried about the guy who buys your truck, just be completely honest. I'd say "It runs great (assuming it still does), but it may need head gaskets and leaks a lot of oil." I'd tell him what you did and let him decide if he wants to deal with the issues.
Rock Crawling
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 408
Likes: 14
From: Cumming Ga
You are not going to like my advice...I have been exactly where you are!
With your particular situation Grad school w/ baby coming, and financial challenges, sell it and rid yourself of what is going to be a very expensive set of repairs and I mean a lot of repairs. Do not waste any money on a HG repair. It will only aggravate you more when the motor lets loose because of the top hats or oil pump... Bottomline and this is coming from someone (me) that had almost the exact issues you are having, all of them. You are looking at 5-10k in repairs /motor replacement to get it right minimum. Possibly more. If you do not have the coin to fix it right cut your losses and move on. Sure you can do this now, do that later....but you will not have a dependable form of transportation. Only consider doing this if you have another car available to drive. My 1.34 cents
Blast away everyone...
With your particular situation Grad school w/ baby coming, and financial challenges, sell it and rid yourself of what is going to be a very expensive set of repairs and I mean a lot of repairs. Do not waste any money on a HG repair. It will only aggravate you more when the motor lets loose because of the top hats or oil pump... Bottomline and this is coming from someone (me) that had almost the exact issues you are having, all of them. You are looking at 5-10k in repairs /motor replacement to get it right minimum. Possibly more. If you do not have the coin to fix it right cut your losses and move on. Sure you can do this now, do that later....but you will not have a dependable form of transportation. Only consider doing this if you have another car available to drive. My 1.34 cents
Blast away everyone...
Mudding
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 199
Likes: 6
Captain, seriously, you have spent a lot of time on this, and your talking about replacing the motor or full rebuilds and your trying to buy one year. Do what Dr. Mordo and I suggest, change your oil, go buy $15 bottle of K-Seal or Barrs tablets, Buy a bottle of Barrs Main Seal Repair, throw it in and watch your levels. If they don't move, your good. If they do move, do the heads.
Now let's talk about a head job. Most guys on this forum say it is a DYI project and it is. However, I understand the hassle of doing the job and the fear that it evokes and the sense of "Do I really want to take this on". So with that said I understand that if most untrained people can do it, then any good mechanic should be able to do it not just a Rover wrench. So here are the facts, the book on a HG job is 12 hours, based on a rate of $100.00 an hour that is $1200 in labor. Parts for the job are $250 bucks, which includes all the gaskets, bolts and fuel injector seals. Throw in $300 for coils, plugs and wires, which they remove anyway to do the heads and another $250.00 to rebuild the heads, (which the rover wrenches I've talked to say don't usually need to be done) and your at $2100 max and $1600 min. How the hell does a guy say $2900 for that job.
Whenever you talk about a big job with a service manager first ask him what the book hours is, then ask him his rate for the book. Most shops charge $85.00 to $100.00 an hour. Then ask what parts are need and how much are those parts. Finally ask him if you can provide the parts (much cheaper). Now some times shops will say, I charge $100.00 an hour, if you buy the parts I charge $125. Do you think if things are slow that price is negotiable, hell yes.
HG are a pain to do, but their is no special tool needed to do it, most good shops, not just LR shops can do it, heck most decent DYI guys can do it. In Chicago I know I can get it done for $1200 from a good shop plus parts.
So, here would be my plan.
Throw in the K-Seal and Barrs - if it works you save $2870 Dollars, (I get $700 and Mordo gets $700 you keep $1470 for yourself) if it doesn't your out $30.00
If you want someone else to do it go to a reputable shop in town, tell them you have a Discovery 2 that needs Head Gaskets and you will provide the parts, what is your estimate and how many hours is the book. (Remember it is 12) If they say 12 and they go by the book you know. (Remember what ever you save from $2900 I get half)
Now let's talk about a head job. Most guys on this forum say it is a DYI project and it is. However, I understand the hassle of doing the job and the fear that it evokes and the sense of "Do I really want to take this on". So with that said I understand that if most untrained people can do it, then any good mechanic should be able to do it not just a Rover wrench. So here are the facts, the book on a HG job is 12 hours, based on a rate of $100.00 an hour that is $1200 in labor. Parts for the job are $250 bucks, which includes all the gaskets, bolts and fuel injector seals. Throw in $300 for coils, plugs and wires, which they remove anyway to do the heads and another $250.00 to rebuild the heads, (which the rover wrenches I've talked to say don't usually need to be done) and your at $2100 max and $1600 min. How the hell does a guy say $2900 for that job.
Whenever you talk about a big job with a service manager first ask him what the book hours is, then ask him his rate for the book. Most shops charge $85.00 to $100.00 an hour. Then ask what parts are need and how much are those parts. Finally ask him if you can provide the parts (much cheaper). Now some times shops will say, I charge $100.00 an hour, if you buy the parts I charge $125. Do you think if things are slow that price is negotiable, hell yes.
HG are a pain to do, but their is no special tool needed to do it, most good shops, not just LR shops can do it, heck most decent DYI guys can do it. In Chicago I know I can get it done for $1200 from a good shop plus parts.
So, here would be my plan.
Throw in the K-Seal and Barrs - if it works you save $2870 Dollars, (I get $700 and Mordo gets $700 you keep $1470 for yourself) if it doesn't your out $30.00
If you want someone else to do it go to a reputable shop in town, tell them you have a Discovery 2 that needs Head Gaskets and you will provide the parts, what is your estimate and how many hours is the book. (Remember it is 12) If they say 12 and they go by the book you know. (Remember what ever you save from $2900 I get half)
Last edited by xxdoylexx; Dec 12, 2013 at 08:49 AM.
