What else to do while replacing the head gaskets
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Three Wheeling
Joined: Dec 2024
Posts: 53
Likes: 16
From: Oslo, Norge
Done, first mod on this truck tbh.
When I did my heads I remember the "kit" was missing some items. Intake gasket and the o-ring that goes on the coolant pipe. ARP head bolts incase you need to break it down again. X2 on resurfacing the heads and a valve job/hoses. I also took the opportunity to change the timing chain and oil pump gears / reseal the front cover. Fuel injectors could be sent out and rebuilt. I used these guys (www.mrinjector.us)
Several good recommendations from the group I will second:
1. Wire wrap.
2. If SAI, convert to flex hoses
3. If you are going to run the cooling system pressurized going forward (I do not recommend: https://extinctmotorsports.com/the-e...-min-read/)and they have never been replaced then a good time to replace the heater hoses.
A couple of other points:
1. I don't recommend the studs, write up here: https://landroverforums.com/forum/di...92/#post786998
2. I don't skim the heads if they are flat (normally they are flat unless severely overheated), less risk of a machine show screwing up the job (it happens). Same with the valve job (BTW, my three personal trucks all have over 220k, I restore and sell the low mileage ones).
3. I have a truck in the fleet currently with the crower cam in a 4.6, I cannot feel nor measure any significant power improvement. I tow, drive mountains, etc. Three with 4.0, two with 4.6 currently. IMHO not worth the money and break-in hassle.
4. Injector o-rings sometimes give trouble on very high mileage trucks, you can change those if you like. Injectors almost never go bad, I think I might have had one bad injector in 25+ trucks.
5. I would do the exhaust gaskets with these : https://a.co/d/g87U9T0 and these: https://extinctmotorsports.com/exhaust-studs
6. PCV mod if you have not already done it.
7. I would replace the throttle body heater plate with the billet one here: https://www.sportscarcentre.ca/MGM000010K Factory are known to warp and leak. Also replace the hard lines with ATF hoses.
8. PS pump?
9. I don't recommend timing chain, gears, nor oil pump if yours are fine. Replacement parts quality is questionable at this point and if your mileage is reasonable the probability yours are worn out is very low.
10. I like to wrap the AC hoses in foil tape as the factory shielding is sometimes in bad shape.
11. Fan clutch depending on age.
12. Consider idler pulleys, at a minimum plan to check bearings.
Feel free to ask if you have questions on the list.
1. Wire wrap.
2. If SAI, convert to flex hoses
3. If you are going to run the cooling system pressurized going forward (I do not recommend: https://extinctmotorsports.com/the-e...-min-read/)and they have never been replaced then a good time to replace the heater hoses.
A couple of other points:
1. I don't recommend the studs, write up here: https://landroverforums.com/forum/di...92/#post786998
2. I don't skim the heads if they are flat (normally they are flat unless severely overheated), less risk of a machine show screwing up the job (it happens). Same with the valve job (BTW, my three personal trucks all have over 220k, I restore and sell the low mileage ones).
3. I have a truck in the fleet currently with the crower cam in a 4.6, I cannot feel nor measure any significant power improvement. I tow, drive mountains, etc. Three with 4.0, two with 4.6 currently. IMHO not worth the money and break-in hassle.
4. Injector o-rings sometimes give trouble on very high mileage trucks, you can change those if you like. Injectors almost never go bad, I think I might have had one bad injector in 25+ trucks.
5. I would do the exhaust gaskets with these : https://a.co/d/g87U9T0 and these: https://extinctmotorsports.com/exhaust-studs
6. PCV mod if you have not already done it.
7. I would replace the throttle body heater plate with the billet one here: https://www.sportscarcentre.ca/MGM000010K Factory are known to warp and leak. Also replace the hard lines with ATF hoses.
8. PS pump?
9. I don't recommend timing chain, gears, nor oil pump if yours are fine. Replacement parts quality is questionable at this point and if your mileage is reasonable the probability yours are worn out is very low.
10. I like to wrap the AC hoses in foil tape as the factory shielding is sometimes in bad shape.
11. Fan clutch depending on age.
12. Consider idler pulleys, at a minimum plan to check bearings.
Feel free to ask if you have questions on the list.
2. The truck originally came with SAI, but the current engine does not support. Would it be OK to remove the vacuum pumps etc? I know it will throw a code, but the pumps are annoying at this point...
3. I do not run the system pressurized currently. I am not sure how old the hoses are, so I will be replacing as many as I can source.
4. About the heads and valve job - Is it reasonable to check the heads without taking them to a shop, or is that asking for trouble? I have not sourced a shop to deck them yet. And on your trucks you have not done a valve job?
5. I think more and more the cam will be left alone. While I drive a lot in the mountains, roads are generally at a much slower pace here, so sport mode on the transmission is enough to handle it.
6. I have an exhaust tick that I am going to tackle, so thanks for this! I need to find another source for the gasket though; 80 in shipping is too much.
7. PCV is done, but I will clean it up.
8. Throttle body heater is gone. The whole thing, before I ever got the truck. No need for that gasket.
9. Just changed the PS pump 2 months ago due to it leaking.
10. I am at 220,000 km or 137,000 miles. I am trying to get some information on the engine as it was remanufactured at some point, but I have no idea if these parts were touched.
11. Foil tape is a good idea, although I barely ever need AC. I would consider getting rid of it TBH. We have maybe 2 weeks a year where it is above 80F and it is just as pleasant to ride with the windows down.
12. Fan clutch is 2 years old now, second thing I replaced on the truck.
13. I checked pulleys recently and things seemed fine, but I will check again.
The above are all good ideas. Extinct has a lot of experience on these vehicles so his opinion is worth a lot, but I would disagree on the timing chain. They do stretch and rob power due to the valve timing going out of its ideal range. It is very unlikely to ever fail catastrophically though. I agree with everything else (including don’t replace the timing gears.
Guys, thanks so much for the information. There is a lot to consider, but this seems to have gotten mostly simpler than the plan I had in my head. It also should allow me to save some money to get some rust by the windscreen taken care of sooner rather than later...
3. I do not run the system pressurized currently. I am not sure how old the hoses are, so I will be replacing as many as I can source.
Hoses will last indefinitely if there is no pressure on them
Yes, you can check yourself easily. You just need a straightedge (steel ruler) and a feeler gauge. If you are suspicious of your straightedge check it on a home mirror first. Going off memory the spec is .002 inches, if the heads are flat you will not get the gauge between the surface and the straightedge (after cleaning them of course). I use a wire brush wheel for cleaning the surface, rotating in a direction parallel to the cylinder wall so any microscratches help grip the headgasket. No, typically valve job is not required. You can test by flipping the heads over and pouring gas in the combustion chambers. If it does not leak out you are good.
I always coat both sides of the gaskets with a layer of high temp rtv to help seal gaps. Have you tried UK Amazon? They may have it at reasonable price. Soak the studs in penetrant for 3 days before trying to remove and if you are luck they will come out. If you cannot source stainless studs and copper nuts for reasonable at least try to replace with grade 8 and coat with hi temp rtv. Be diligent about not over-torqueing as they snap really easy.
Hmmm, I would have thought temps would get down to a level in Norway where it would have been necessary. TB freeze up is a possibility in extremely low temps.
Good luck with your project, sounds like you are going in with a solid plan.
Hoses will last indefinitely if there is no pressure on them
Good luck with your project, sounds like you are going in with a solid plan.
Thread Starter
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Three Wheeling
Joined: Dec 2024
Posts: 53
Likes: 16
From: Oslo, Norge
Norway does not get as cold as I think most people think, me included before moving. The coldest we have experienced in 3 years is 12 degrees below zero, and that was just one day. Usually it is 24-30 during the day in winter here in Oslo.
I have tried Amazon UK and Amazon DE, but they often do not sell the same things. So it can be hard to find exact parts. There is a pair of metal gaskets that AB sells on Amazon that will ship here for 10 dollars. I will keep looking.
Thanks again for all the info. I think I had made it more complicated than it needs to be in my head, this has helped narrow down the list.
I have tried Amazon UK and Amazon DE, but they often do not sell the same things. So it can be hard to find exact parts. There is a pair of metal gaskets that AB sells on Amazon that will ship here for 10 dollars. I will keep looking.
Thanks again for all the info. I think I had made it more complicated than it needs to be in my head, this has helped narrow down the list.
TReK
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,778
Likes: 627
From: NYC
Extinct: " I use a wire brush wheel for cleaning the surface, rotating in a direction parallel to the cylinder wall so any microscratches help grip the headgasket."
I have all the respect in the world for Extinct. He is more knowledgeable than I am. He has done many, many, many more head gaskets than I have (2), and I am quite sure he absolutely knows how to handle the wire brush wheel such that he does not leave scratches that would create a problem.
All that said, I suspect the vast majority of DIYers and semi-pros with much less experience would be served by NOT using a wire wheel brush. It is too easy to mess up. I would recommend a more conservative approach such as blue scotch brite. It is more/longer work, but far fewer possible consequences.
However...maybe I'm just a *****.
I have all the respect in the world for Extinct. He is more knowledgeable than I am. He has done many, many, many more head gaskets than I have (2), and I am quite sure he absolutely knows how to handle the wire brush wheel such that he does not leave scratches that would create a problem.
All that said, I suspect the vast majority of DIYers and semi-pros with much less experience would be served by NOT using a wire wheel brush. It is too easy to mess up. I would recommend a more conservative approach such as blue scotch brite. It is more/longer work, but far fewer possible consequences.
However...maybe I'm just a *****.
TReK
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 2,956
Likes: 754
From: British Columbia Canada
I’m with Walt, including highly respecting Extinct. I’m an Aircraft Mechanic and we would never use a wire wheel on aluminum. The reasoning is that small bits from the wire (steel) wheel can embed into the aluminum causing dissimilar metal corrosion.
Thread Starter
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Three Wheeling
Joined: Dec 2024
Posts: 53
Likes: 16
From: Oslo, Norge
This will be the furthest into an engine I've gone. Based on everything I've read I will be taking the most conservative approach I can. I wish I had the confidence and knowledge to use a wire wheel, but I would 100% screw it up. That's another set of issues I just don't need.
Thread Starter
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Three Wheeling
Joined: Dec 2024
Posts: 53
Likes: 16
From: Oslo, Norge
I just wanted to put an end cap on this thread with some of my observations as I took apart, cleaned, and put everything back together.
This took me the better part of 6 weeks as I only ever had 2-3 hours at a time to work on it, mostly just on Saturdays, and I work very slowly to make sure I don't screw anything up. Thankfully I do not need the truck other than for fun. I think realistically, if I had 6-8 hours a day I could have done this over 3-4 days.
The work itself was not too difficult. I have a large 1 meter 3/4" breaker bar that took care of the head bolts with relative ease. The biggest trouble I ran into was the d post on the alternator broke off when I was trying to loosen the nut. This turned out to be a positive as the new alternator is charging the battery better than the old one.
Upon taking the heads off, I didn't see a clear blow in the gasket, nor were there any "steamed cylinders." I did see a small area near the water jacket in the front driver side that could have been comprimised, but it was unclear.
Cleaning took me forever. The engine was covered on the outside with grime, and I really wanted to get it as clean as possible before reassembly. The heads were perfectly level so I did not have them skimmed or any valve work done. Based on what I have seen, I probably could have polished the heads a little more before reassembly, but I was not about to try a wirewheel lol.
When I tried to thread the ARP studs in to change over to them, but they would not thread into the engine. One of the 20 would go and properly seat. I spent days cleaning the threads etc and they never would fit. Thankfully I had a set of stretch bolt on hand and they had 0 issues threading. They were actually very easy to install. I was a little nervous about turning them 90 then 90, but marking them (as I have seen mentioned many times) for reference made it very easy.
I also replaced the timing chain while in there. I followed the write-up by Alex_M (Alex's write up) which made the job very doable, though I had to remove the cross member to take the oil pan out. I also made sure to really seal the oil pan gasket, front cover gasket, water pump gasket, and basically every other gasket that needed it. So far, all my issues are resolved. The truck noticably runs better, the oil leaks from the oil pan area are gone, and there is no coolant loss.
Things that came in handy: The RAVE manual. This was was key in so many instances. I printed out the relevant pages and had in a binder, and would recommend. The AB videos for removing and reinstalling the head gaskets.
One note about the studs: I know the Engine is remanufactured, but I cannot figure out who did it. When I talked with Turner (amazing customer service btw) they mentioned they recommend against running studs with their engines. I doubt this has anything to do with the threading (they mention liners), but maybe that was my issue. IDK.
This took me the better part of 6 weeks as I only ever had 2-3 hours at a time to work on it, mostly just on Saturdays, and I work very slowly to make sure I don't screw anything up. Thankfully I do not need the truck other than for fun. I think realistically, if I had 6-8 hours a day I could have done this over 3-4 days.
The work itself was not too difficult. I have a large 1 meter 3/4" breaker bar that took care of the head bolts with relative ease. The biggest trouble I ran into was the d post on the alternator broke off when I was trying to loosen the nut. This turned out to be a positive as the new alternator is charging the battery better than the old one.
Upon taking the heads off, I didn't see a clear blow in the gasket, nor were there any "steamed cylinders." I did see a small area near the water jacket in the front driver side that could have been comprimised, but it was unclear.
Cleaning took me forever. The engine was covered on the outside with grime, and I really wanted to get it as clean as possible before reassembly. The heads were perfectly level so I did not have them skimmed or any valve work done. Based on what I have seen, I probably could have polished the heads a little more before reassembly, but I was not about to try a wirewheel lol.
When I tried to thread the ARP studs in to change over to them, but they would not thread into the engine. One of the 20 would go and properly seat. I spent days cleaning the threads etc and they never would fit. Thankfully I had a set of stretch bolt on hand and they had 0 issues threading. They were actually very easy to install. I was a little nervous about turning them 90 then 90, but marking them (as I have seen mentioned many times) for reference made it very easy.
I also replaced the timing chain while in there. I followed the write-up by Alex_M (Alex's write up) which made the job very doable, though I had to remove the cross member to take the oil pan out. I also made sure to really seal the oil pan gasket, front cover gasket, water pump gasket, and basically every other gasket that needed it. So far, all my issues are resolved. The truck noticably runs better, the oil leaks from the oil pan area are gone, and there is no coolant loss.
Things that came in handy: The RAVE manual. This was was key in so many instances. I printed out the relevant pages and had in a binder, and would recommend. The AB videos for removing and reinstalling the head gaskets.
One note about the studs: I know the Engine is remanufactured, but I cannot figure out who did it. When I talked with Turner (amazing customer service btw) they mentioned they recommend against running studs with their engines. I doubt this has anything to do with the threading (they mention liners), but maybe that was my issue. IDK.
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