300Tdi tuning
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Drifting
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: South Wales, UK
300Tdi tuning
I am interested to improve the performance of my Discovery's 300Tdi engine. I don't want to go too mad with massive BHP hikes or anything too enthusiatic because I don't wish to compromise the reliability of the engine in any way. I know that tuning is easier with the TD5 models because they are electronically controlled which allows you to remap the ECU for better performance, but what can actually be done with the Tdi models? I've seen Intercooler kits which would probably improve the performance a little, and there's the possibility of increasing the turbo's boost but again I'm not really interested in compromisng engine reliability so I'm not sure a boost increase is a good idea. Can you fit improved cams or any other performance mods which aren't likely to compromise reliability to a great degree?
Brian
Brian
Overlanding
Joined: Nov 2004
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From:
RE: 300Tdi tuning
Brian
I went into my local garage for a vibration problem but was talking about the sluggishness of the vehicle to the owner. He suggested he could poke up the power fairly easily. I gave him it for about an hour and sure enough when it came back it was a lot sharper - guess about 10-20% more. I believe it was just a matter of turning up the pressure on the diesel injector pump, the mapping is based on optimum fuel economy and I have lost about 10% on fuel economy but at least I can overtake safely now. I went to a proper engine tuner and suggest you do the same. I have heard some people have problems with MOT's emmissions after this but not in my case. This guy tunes engines for hill climbs etc so ask a few Q's first of any garage you plan to go to. I did this at 94K and so far at 104k everythings fine. Suggest you get the famous four shock absorbers kit so you don't loose it on the bends with all this new speed as well!!
The other improvement is to take off the viscous coupled fan and replace it with an electric kenloe fan, kenlow claim the viscous fan takes 10% of the power. I plan to do this next but couldn't get the nut off so have to wait for the next oil change and get the garage to undo it for me.
'Chuggy' is now a great pleasure to drive.
Good Luck - let us know how you get on
JJ
I went into my local garage for a vibration problem but was talking about the sluggishness of the vehicle to the owner. He suggested he could poke up the power fairly easily. I gave him it for about an hour and sure enough when it came back it was a lot sharper - guess about 10-20% more. I believe it was just a matter of turning up the pressure on the diesel injector pump, the mapping is based on optimum fuel economy and I have lost about 10% on fuel economy but at least I can overtake safely now. I went to a proper engine tuner and suggest you do the same. I have heard some people have problems with MOT's emmissions after this but not in my case. This guy tunes engines for hill climbs etc so ask a few Q's first of any garage you plan to go to. I did this at 94K and so far at 104k everythings fine. Suggest you get the famous four shock absorbers kit so you don't loose it on the bends with all this new speed as well!!
The other improvement is to take off the viscous coupled fan and replace it with an electric kenloe fan, kenlow claim the viscous fan takes 10% of the power. I plan to do this next but couldn't get the nut off so have to wait for the next oil change and get the garage to undo it for me.
'Chuggy' is now a great pleasure to drive.
Good Luck - let us know how you get on
JJ
2nd Gear
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
RE: 300Tdi tuning
hELLO Brian,
I have a Discovery 2.5 300 TDI of 11/1996 with 330.000 kms, when I buy with 60.000 kms I install a Power Kit increasing +27cv.
The fuel consomation is the same.
I have a Discovery 2.5 300 TDI of 11/1996 with 330.000 kms, when I buy with 60.000 kms I install a Power Kit increasing +27cv.
The fuel consomation is the same.
Last edited by flg; Jul 3, 2014 at 09:15 AM.
2nd Gear
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
RE: 300Tdi tuning
Last edited by flg; Jul 3, 2014 at 09:18 AM.
4wd Low
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: Wigan U.K.
RE: 300Tdi tuning
Alreet wotever you do dont up the boost on the turbo tdi engines def dont like this.....but adding a performane air filter and intercooler helps her to breathe and swappin the viscous for kenlowe or pacet works good aswell......tell you ive just fitted a perf air filter and shes perkier already.....next one is to ditch the viscous fan....for electric...
4th Gear
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
RE: 300Tdi tuning
Look into a propane injection kit from the US. All of the Powerstroke (ford) guys run them at the DragStrip. I have also seen a cummins powered F-250 pull an 11-12 second quarter mile running propane inj.
2nd Gear
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2
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RE: 300Tdi tuning
I am new to this forum, but I'm not new to turbo diesels. I have a '97 12 valve Dodge (mechanical injection) and a '04 High Pressure Common Rail Dodge (just about everything iselectronically controlled). The '97 is modified to about 500 hp. I would love to install a diesel in my '92 RR.
As for improving performance in your TDi RR, let me first say I have no first hand experience with the LR TDi, so what I have to say is general in nature. Before undertaking any performance improvements I strngly recommend that you install a boost gauge and an exhaust gas temperature gauge (EGT) with the thermocouple mounted upstream from the turbo. That way you will know the effect of any modification. They are also useful for trouble shooting. If you have an automatic transmission then you should also install a transmission temperature gauge. After installing these, then take it for a drive and note the boost and EGTs.
I gather that the RR 300TDi is not intercooled. This should be your first modification. The turbo diesel engine is basically an air pump. If you consider the ideal gas law (PV=mRT) where PV is constant, then as you lower the temperature then mass of air going into the engine must increase. The result will be a more efficient engine and lower EGTs. This will not be a cheap modification, but it will pay for itself.
Now to add power you must increase the fuel delivered to the engine. Of course increasing the fuel may also increase EGTs at high throttle. You will need to play around with the amount of fuel added in concert with safe EGTs (1200 deg F should be a safe maximum). I don't know what kind of injection pump you have. On my '97 there is a plate that kind be slid that alters the fuel delivery, and the shape of the plate kind be modified to alter the level of fuel at any given boost level and at wide open throttle.
If you still want more power then a new turbo should be considered - one that will deliver greater mass of air. More boost will not necessarily increase power as the turbo may just increase the temperature of air being delivered as opposed to delivering more mass of air. More fuel can then be added with different injectors. The cycle will continue as you increase power. Mor air. More fuel. More air. More fuel.
Performance modifications to the diesel engine should not decrease fuel efficiency. I've read of an 800 hp Dodge that gets 24 miles to the gallon versus a typical 18-20 for a stock truck. Not bad for an 8000 lb truck. My own '97 gets on the order of 22 mpg on th highway.
As for improving performance in your TDi RR, let me first say I have no first hand experience with the LR TDi, so what I have to say is general in nature. Before undertaking any performance improvements I strngly recommend that you install a boost gauge and an exhaust gas temperature gauge (EGT) with the thermocouple mounted upstream from the turbo. That way you will know the effect of any modification. They are also useful for trouble shooting. If you have an automatic transmission then you should also install a transmission temperature gauge. After installing these, then take it for a drive and note the boost and EGTs.
I gather that the RR 300TDi is not intercooled. This should be your first modification. The turbo diesel engine is basically an air pump. If you consider the ideal gas law (PV=mRT) where PV is constant, then as you lower the temperature then mass of air going into the engine must increase. The result will be a more efficient engine and lower EGTs. This will not be a cheap modification, but it will pay for itself.
Now to add power you must increase the fuel delivered to the engine. Of course increasing the fuel may also increase EGTs at high throttle. You will need to play around with the amount of fuel added in concert with safe EGTs (1200 deg F should be a safe maximum). I don't know what kind of injection pump you have. On my '97 there is a plate that kind be slid that alters the fuel delivery, and the shape of the plate kind be modified to alter the level of fuel at any given boost level and at wide open throttle.
If you still want more power then a new turbo should be considered - one that will deliver greater mass of air. More boost will not necessarily increase power as the turbo may just increase the temperature of air being delivered as opposed to delivering more mass of air. More fuel can then be added with different injectors. The cycle will continue as you increase power. Mor air. More fuel. More air. More fuel.
Performance modifications to the diesel engine should not decrease fuel efficiency. I've read of an 800 hp Dodge that gets 24 miles to the gallon versus a typical 18-20 for a stock truck. Not bad for an 8000 lb truck. My own '97 gets on the order of 22 mpg on th highway.
Rock Crawling
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 333
Likes: 3
From:
RE: 300Tdi tuning
Reasons not to do any of the things listed in this post:
1.) You are unsure of the state of tune of your engine and someone may have already altered the fueling, boost or both.
2.) You are unhappy with the reliability of your engine - none of the following will improve a failing engine and can make it fail very quickly
3.) Your exhaust puffs black sooty smoke at any stage of acceleration other than initial engine start up.
3.) You are not confident of your ability to perform any step detailed below.
4.) You are unsure what the word 'clockwise' means and you have a note from your Doctor excusing you from the use of sharp implements or tools due to an inability to tell your **** from your elbow
I'll make this next bit plain I will take no responsibility for any damage you cause to your engine through modifying it using the steps here!
Ok, now that's said on to the good stuff. If your 300Tdi still has the EGR system fitted and in use, I'd recommend blanking if off and seeing if you really need to adjust anything else - the perfomance gains are staggering for such a cheap and easy fix.
The 300tdi (and 200tdi) uses the same injection pump as the 12v Dodge Ram - the Bosch VE.
Both the 200 and 300tdi engines are intercooled, but the intercooler is a little on the inefficient side and not really suited to high power/high boost applications - changing it for a higher capacity one will give vastly better results if you decide to up the boost.
WARNING: Playing with either the fuel delivery or the boost pressure can (and in some circumstances will) destroy your engine!
200Tdi engines run between 0.74 BAR and 0.82BAR of boost pressure, 300Tdis run 1BAR of boost. 1BAR is plenty of boost to supply air for some mild tinkering with the fuel delivery - in fact the stock 200 does very well with no modification of boost pressure, if you do increase it do it carefull and use a boost gauge to check you're not overboosting it. Anything more than 1BAR of boost with a stock intercooler is a waste of time as the increased temperature of the induction charge pretty much negates the effect of the extra boost.
Adjusting the fueling isn't difficult - but you need to be very methodical and careful to avoid mishaps.
There are 3 basic adjustments:
LMP (Low Manifold Pressure)
FLD (Full Load Delivery)
AFC (Automatic Fuel Control)
LMP is useful for building boost more quickly from tickover - it will make the car smoke more and might mean it will fail a smoke test for the MOT
FLD will dramatically increase the available power throughout the rev range - and if done incorrectly will cause a lot of smoke and some very high exhaust gas temperatures (which stands a good chance of wrecking your engine - so take a LOT of care with this one)
AFC increases the fuel delivery in line with the boost pressure applied to the IP (Injection Pump) by the turbo.
For your purposes I would adjust the AFC a little and see how you find it - leave the rest of the adjustments alone for now.
WARNING: Before you adjust ANYTHING mark it's current postition so you can return to a known working good setup if things start happening that you don't like.
Read ALL of the following paragraphs before undoing anything.
To get to the AFC control you will need to remove the flat plate on top of the IP, held in place with 4 large slot headed screws. Attached to this plate is a hose which goes to the wastegate actuator pipe from the turbo to the wastegate. Underneath the plate is a diaphragm on an eccentric spindle - this spindle is the FLD adjustment - if it is rotated while you remove the plate or once the plate is removed you will alter the FLD rate. On some cars, particularly, but not limited to, those with turbo problems oil mist is carried down the pressure hose from the turbo and it collects above the diaphragm - this will cause the diaphragm to stick to the plate you're about to remove - be aware of this and stop if the plate it stuck to the diaphragm. If the plate can be easily removed, allow it to hang on the pressure hose. Carefully mark the position of the diaphragm relative to the injection pump - there should be a mark (usually a full stop sized punch mark) built into the metal plate in the middle of it which you can use as a marker, you will need to place a mark on the injection pump (a magic marker is fine) so you can return the diaphragm to it's original postion.
Once you're marked up - you can lift the diaphragm, spindle, plastic washer and spring out of the pump - its a tight fit and you don't want to damage this or your IP will be useless so go carefully and definitely don't lever it. On the excentric spindle you will be able to see a scratch mark where the fuel delivery pin has been acting on it - if the diaphragm was moved before you managed to mark it's position you can use this scratch to realign the spindle with the fuel delivery pin by shining a torch down the hole where the spindle sits.
Under the diaphragm is a notched 'wheel or ****' for want of a better description. This is the AFC adjuster - the spring under the diaphragm bears on this wheel, the higher up the wheel is in its chamber the more difficult it is for the diaphragm to bear down on the spring and move the spindle up and down agains the fuel delivery pin. Thus, tightening the wheel (turning it clockwise) makes it easier for the boost pressure to press the diaphragm and spindle down and the fuel delivery rate under boost goes up.
Mark the current position of the notched wheel and count the number of clicks clockwise that you turn it. You will need to adjust this by a small amount and test it after each adjustment. I would not recommend turning it more than 1/4 of a turn in either direction without testing it.
To test it is simple - bolt everything back together making certain the diaphragm is in it's 'standard' position - adjust one of your wing mirrors so you can see the exhaust smoke (if any) and take it for a drive. If there's no black smoke from the exhaust you can increase the fueling further if you need to - if it's smoking a lot you need to adjust the notched wheel back until it just stops smoking under full boost.
Provided you haven't gone mad and massively over adjusted the wheel in one go all should be well.
If adjusting the AFC doesn't give you the power increase you're lookin for, let me know and I'll put up some instructions for the the other IP tweaks.
1.) You are unsure of the state of tune of your engine and someone may have already altered the fueling, boost or both.
2.) You are unhappy with the reliability of your engine - none of the following will improve a failing engine and can make it fail very quickly
3.) Your exhaust puffs black sooty smoke at any stage of acceleration other than initial engine start up.
3.) You are not confident of your ability to perform any step detailed below.
4.) You are unsure what the word 'clockwise' means and you have a note from your Doctor excusing you from the use of sharp implements or tools due to an inability to tell your **** from your elbow
I'll make this next bit plain I will take no responsibility for any damage you cause to your engine through modifying it using the steps here!
Ok, now that's said on to the good stuff. If your 300Tdi still has the EGR system fitted and in use, I'd recommend blanking if off and seeing if you really need to adjust anything else - the perfomance gains are staggering for such a cheap and easy fix.
The 300tdi (and 200tdi) uses the same injection pump as the 12v Dodge Ram - the Bosch VE.
Both the 200 and 300tdi engines are intercooled, but the intercooler is a little on the inefficient side and not really suited to high power/high boost applications - changing it for a higher capacity one will give vastly better results if you decide to up the boost.
WARNING: Playing with either the fuel delivery or the boost pressure can (and in some circumstances will) destroy your engine!
200Tdi engines run between 0.74 BAR and 0.82BAR of boost pressure, 300Tdis run 1BAR of boost. 1BAR is plenty of boost to supply air for some mild tinkering with the fuel delivery - in fact the stock 200 does very well with no modification of boost pressure, if you do increase it do it carefull and use a boost gauge to check you're not overboosting it. Anything more than 1BAR of boost with a stock intercooler is a waste of time as the increased temperature of the induction charge pretty much negates the effect of the extra boost.
Adjusting the fueling isn't difficult - but you need to be very methodical and careful to avoid mishaps.
There are 3 basic adjustments:
LMP (Low Manifold Pressure)
FLD (Full Load Delivery)
AFC (Automatic Fuel Control)
LMP is useful for building boost more quickly from tickover - it will make the car smoke more and might mean it will fail a smoke test for the MOT
FLD will dramatically increase the available power throughout the rev range - and if done incorrectly will cause a lot of smoke and some very high exhaust gas temperatures (which stands a good chance of wrecking your engine - so take a LOT of care with this one)
AFC increases the fuel delivery in line with the boost pressure applied to the IP (Injection Pump) by the turbo.
For your purposes I would adjust the AFC a little and see how you find it - leave the rest of the adjustments alone for now.
WARNING: Before you adjust ANYTHING mark it's current postition so you can return to a known working good setup if things start happening that you don't like.
Read ALL of the following paragraphs before undoing anything.
To get to the AFC control you will need to remove the flat plate on top of the IP, held in place with 4 large slot headed screws. Attached to this plate is a hose which goes to the wastegate actuator pipe from the turbo to the wastegate. Underneath the plate is a diaphragm on an eccentric spindle - this spindle is the FLD adjustment - if it is rotated while you remove the plate or once the plate is removed you will alter the FLD rate. On some cars, particularly, but not limited to, those with turbo problems oil mist is carried down the pressure hose from the turbo and it collects above the diaphragm - this will cause the diaphragm to stick to the plate you're about to remove - be aware of this and stop if the plate it stuck to the diaphragm. If the plate can be easily removed, allow it to hang on the pressure hose. Carefully mark the position of the diaphragm relative to the injection pump - there should be a mark (usually a full stop sized punch mark) built into the metal plate in the middle of it which you can use as a marker, you will need to place a mark on the injection pump (a magic marker is fine) so you can return the diaphragm to it's original postion.
Once you're marked up - you can lift the diaphragm, spindle, plastic washer and spring out of the pump - its a tight fit and you don't want to damage this or your IP will be useless so go carefully and definitely don't lever it. On the excentric spindle you will be able to see a scratch mark where the fuel delivery pin has been acting on it - if the diaphragm was moved before you managed to mark it's position you can use this scratch to realign the spindle with the fuel delivery pin by shining a torch down the hole where the spindle sits.
Under the diaphragm is a notched 'wheel or ****' for want of a better description. This is the AFC adjuster - the spring under the diaphragm bears on this wheel, the higher up the wheel is in its chamber the more difficult it is for the diaphragm to bear down on the spring and move the spindle up and down agains the fuel delivery pin. Thus, tightening the wheel (turning it clockwise) makes it easier for the boost pressure to press the diaphragm and spindle down and the fuel delivery rate under boost goes up.
Mark the current position of the notched wheel and count the number of clicks clockwise that you turn it. You will need to adjust this by a small amount and test it after each adjustment. I would not recommend turning it more than 1/4 of a turn in either direction without testing it.
To test it is simple - bolt everything back together making certain the diaphragm is in it's 'standard' position - adjust one of your wing mirrors so you can see the exhaust smoke (if any) and take it for a drive. If there's no black smoke from the exhaust you can increase the fueling further if you need to - if it's smoking a lot you need to adjust the notched wheel back until it just stops smoking under full boost.
Provided you haven't gone mad and massively over adjusted the wheel in one go all should be well.
If adjusting the AFC doesn't give you the power increase you're lookin for, let me know and I'll put up some instructions for the the other IP tweaks.
2nd Gear
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
RE: 300Tdi tuning
The Bosch VE! It was used on the 89-93 Dodge 12 valves, which is also known as a first generation Dodge. There should be quite a lot of useful information on this injection pump on turbodieselregister.com.
2nd Gear
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: Darwin
Hi
I have changed the AFC (one full turn this was done by slowly trying an eight of a turn each time) because I have upgraded the intercooler on my 300TDi. I feel it still needs further adjustment I want to try the FLD so I need the procedure to do so. Can you post the procedure for this adjustment?
I have changed the AFC (one full turn this was done by slowly trying an eight of a turn each time) because I have upgraded the intercooler on my 300TDi. I feel it still needs further adjustment I want to try the FLD so I need the procedure to do so. Can you post the procedure for this adjustment?
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