Cooling System Problem Review - Chapter 2
#1
07-07-2012, 02:42 PM
Cooling System Problem Review - Chapter 2
Starts on Chapter 1 - https://landroverforums.com/forum/ge...ter-1-a-51021/
Chapter 2 - The Main Radiator
The main radiator is a cross tube unit, meaning water enters on one side and flows across a series of tubes in rows all at one time. If the lower tubes get plugged up, the fins will be much hotter at top of radiator and cooler on the bottom. More than 10 degrees difference is suspect. A plugged radiator builds up gunk slowly, and eventually overheating begins, the reduction in size cuts the heat transfer available.
D1 units are stock copper and brass, three row, and about $600 to replace. Because they are copper, the side tanks can be unsoldered by a radiator shop and the tubes "rodded" out of calcium buildup. An aluminum radiator is now also available for the D1, about $235, pix below. The D1 radiator incorporates an oil cooler and transmission cooler. There is a fill plug that is plastc, they fail and crumble, brass ones are available. While it looks like a 1/2 NPT plug, it is actually not tapered. A pipe plug will work in a pinch, but the straight shank plug is available. Note that the aluminum aftermarket rad has plastic tanks and pipe nipples.
D2 units are aluminum, about $208 for replacement, and not very practical to repair. The side tanks are plastic, and the small pipe nipples are very brittle. They will snap off if you bump them. Repair to radiator plastic are always "temporary", and include things like JB Weld, melted zip ties, etc. D2 units and other "newer" Rovers may have used Dexcool coolant. That material becomes corrosive, eats some parts, and forms a sludge, and this is worse when incompatible coolants are used to "top off" the system by well meaning oil service shops. Best to flush it all out and use a 50:50 premix coolant like Peak.
Radiator additives, like Water Wetter, can be used in hot areas, but they won't cool radiator below what mechanical thermostat is built for.
Radiators can be reverse flushed, which helps flake off scale buildup and move it out, you can also use commercial flush products or distilled white vinegar. Flushing should be done whenever coolant is changed out as part of regular maintenance. D1 and D2 radiators don't have drain petcocks, you have to loosen a hose.
Chapter 3 https://landroverforums.com/forum/ge...ter-3-a-51025/
Chapter 2 - The Main Radiator
The main radiator is a cross tube unit, meaning water enters on one side and flows across a series of tubes in rows all at one time. If the lower tubes get plugged up, the fins will be much hotter at top of radiator and cooler on the bottom. More than 10 degrees difference is suspect. A plugged radiator builds up gunk slowly, and eventually overheating begins, the reduction in size cuts the heat transfer available.
D1 units are stock copper and brass, three row, and about $600 to replace. Because they are copper, the side tanks can be unsoldered by a radiator shop and the tubes "rodded" out of calcium buildup. An aluminum radiator is now also available for the D1, about $235, pix below. The D1 radiator incorporates an oil cooler and transmission cooler. There is a fill plug that is plastc, they fail and crumble, brass ones are available. While it looks like a 1/2 NPT plug, it is actually not tapered. A pipe plug will work in a pinch, but the straight shank plug is available. Note that the aluminum aftermarket rad has plastic tanks and pipe nipples.
D2 units are aluminum, about $208 for replacement, and not very practical to repair. The side tanks are plastic, and the small pipe nipples are very brittle. They will snap off if you bump them. Repair to radiator plastic are always "temporary", and include things like JB Weld, melted zip ties, etc. D2 units and other "newer" Rovers may have used Dexcool coolant. That material becomes corrosive, eats some parts, and forms a sludge, and this is worse when incompatible coolants are used to "top off" the system by well meaning oil service shops. Best to flush it all out and use a 50:50 premix coolant like Peak.
Radiator additives, like Water Wetter, can be used in hot areas, but they won't cool radiator below what mechanical thermostat is built for.
Radiators can be reverse flushed, which helps flake off scale buildup and move it out, you can also use commercial flush products or distilled white vinegar. Flushing should be done whenever coolant is changed out as part of regular maintenance. D1 and D2 radiators don't have drain petcocks, you have to loosen a hose.
Chapter 3 https://landroverforums.com/forum/ge...ter-3-a-51025/
Last edited by Savannah Buzz; 05-23-2013 at 04:57 PM.
#2
07-07-2012, 04:51 PM
Baja
#3
10-06-2012, 09:32 PM
Mudding
#4
10-07-2012, 12:27 AM
Three Wheeling
Savannah - you always seem to have the answers.
My disco 2003 Landrover overheated today after driving 2 miles tops. I was low on gas, and when i pulled into the gas station I saw steam coming out of hood. Also smelled bad. I quickly opened the hood and saw fluid underneath the car. Couple of men in the station said it was anti-freeze. My car had been leaking (slow leak) for awhile and I had a half a bottle of anti-freeze in the car. We waited, then added the anti-freeze, no noticeable leaking (I think (hope) we put the fluid in the right place ;-)) and off I went.
Didn't go far. Immediately I saw a cab drive signal to me something was wrong. Saw the gauge going hotter (up to the red - this had happened 5yrs ago and I lost my engine) and quickly pulled over - 2 kids in the car. More overheating turned off the car, got out and saw major leakage of fluid in the street. Called AAA, Saturday night, no garage nearby was open, and now the car is parked on the street (thank God I was able to turn it on and park it).
So now what do I do?!. This disco's engine ceased once like I said above, lost the transmission shortly before that, have had radiator work, and it's intermittent. For 6-months it's great, then major stuff like this happens. Last time I was here (on this site) the service engine was on and it had some misfire issues that just went away. Is this car dying! The dealer laughs when he looks underneath. It's leaking a slow death - but now major fluid and overheating - dangerous!
Any and all advice appreciated. I need to call AAA tomorrow and decide where to take it, don't want to put any big $ in, but love my rover, but safety first!
Thanks!
My disco 2003 Landrover overheated today after driving 2 miles tops. I was low on gas, and when i pulled into the gas station I saw steam coming out of hood. Also smelled bad. I quickly opened the hood and saw fluid underneath the car. Couple of men in the station said it was anti-freeze. My car had been leaking (slow leak) for awhile and I had a half a bottle of anti-freeze in the car. We waited, then added the anti-freeze, no noticeable leaking (I think (hope) we put the fluid in the right place ;-)) and off I went.
Didn't go far. Immediately I saw a cab drive signal to me something was wrong. Saw the gauge going hotter (up to the red - this had happened 5yrs ago and I lost my engine) and quickly pulled over - 2 kids in the car. More overheating turned off the car, got out and saw major leakage of fluid in the street. Called AAA, Saturday night, no garage nearby was open, and now the car is parked on the street (thank God I was able to turn it on and park it).
So now what do I do?!. This disco's engine ceased once like I said above, lost the transmission shortly before that, have had radiator work, and it's intermittent. For 6-months it's great, then major stuff like this happens. Last time I was here (on this site) the service engine was on and it had some misfire issues that just went away. Is this car dying! The dealer laughs when he looks underneath. It's leaking a slow death - but now major fluid and overheating - dangerous!
Any and all advice appreciated. I need to call AAA tomorrow and decide where to take it, don't want to put any big $ in, but love my rover, but safety first!
Thanks!
Last edited by disco2003NYC; 10-07-2012 at 12:32 AM.
#5
10-07-2012, 08:45 AM
Administrator
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If yours D1 has an issue with the radiator, better to have the old one removed and inspected by a good radiator shop for inspection, cleaning or re-coring.
#6
10-07-2012, 08:48 AM
If you did not observe white smoke boiling out of the exhaust that is a plus. The truck obviously has lost a great deal of coolant, but that could be from simply a leaky hose. When you poured 1/2 a gallon back in, there most likely was still a lot of air in the system. Air (or steam) inside does not transfer heat as well (so engine can't get rid of heat as quickly); and the temp sensor, which drives the guage, is not immersed in water and gives a false "cool" reading. As a parent you are very familiar with this physics example - the pot of pasta bubbling on the stove. Steam is hot above the water, but in the water is much hotter.
Have your mechanic look it over for leaks. They can use a pressure tester to pump up the pressure inside the cooling system without engine running to say 15 PSI. And let it sit. Leak will reveal itself, or pressure can drop if leaking thru a head gasket into a cylinder. Would advise indy shop, not dealer. If it a hose, under $50 for the part. If it is head gaskets, indy shop is around $2500. Here's pages of the cooling layout of both D1 and D2, lots of places for hoses to leak. Don't wait for gauge to go to the red, above 50% is trouble.
You have one of the most harsh conditions for a Rover, short trips, metro traffic, idle in high temp for long periods. Wears out any vehicle way head of normal service intervals. Basically like a police or taxi cab.
Have your mechanic look it over for leaks. They can use a pressure tester to pump up the pressure inside the cooling system without engine running to say 15 PSI. And let it sit. Leak will reveal itself, or pressure can drop if leaking thru a head gasket into a cylinder. Would advise indy shop, not dealer. If it a hose, under $50 for the part. If it is head gaskets, indy shop is around $2500. Here's pages of the cooling layout of both D1 and D2, lots of places for hoses to leak. Don't wait for gauge to go to the red, above 50% is trouble.
You have one of the most harsh conditions for a Rover, short trips, metro traffic, idle in high temp for long periods. Wears out any vehicle way head of normal service intervals. Basically like a police or taxi cab.
Last edited by Savannah Buzz; 10-07-2012 at 09:02 AM.
#7
10-07-2012, 09:09 AM
Mudding
Not to step on Buzz's toes, but I have never seen an aluminun radiator made to the same specs as the original radiator, that will fit and work in a D1.
If yours D1 has an issue with the radiator, better to have the old one removed and inspected by a good radiator shop for inspection, cleaning or re-coring.
If yours D1 has an issue with the radiator, better to have the old one removed and inspected by a good radiator shop for inspection, cleaning or re-coring.
#8
10-07-2012, 09:18 AM
I'm simply bring up info posted by others on this site, along with some of their photos. I certainly agree that the copper brass model that is oem for the D1 is best, I had mine rodded out and soldered back up by an indy small rad shop for under $100. Look for small shops that deal with farm and off road construction gear.
On the other hand, if faced with buying a new copper, or a new aluminum, you might have to weigh the fiscal reality. I have also purchased used rads from the junkyard, about $50. Some were OK, but one for my D1 looked great, until I cranked up the truck after the swap; and while checking for coolant leaks I failed to notice that the oil light stayed on.... for a couple minutes, until I returned and freaked. The scrap rad had a blocked oil cooler side. So test the oil cooler and tranny cooler side (blow out with clean rubber hose) before leaving the yard.
On the other hand, if faced with buying a new copper, or a new aluminum, you might have to weigh the fiscal reality. I have also purchased used rads from the junkyard, about $50. Some were OK, but one for my D1 looked great, until I cranked up the truck after the swap; and while checking for coolant leaks I failed to notice that the oil light stayed on.... for a couple minutes, until I returned and freaked. The scrap rad had a blocked oil cooler side. So test the oil cooler and tranny cooler side (blow out with clean rubber hose) before leaving the yard.
#10
10-08-2012, 09:12 AM
Three Wheeling
