LT230SE mystery of bearing pieces found
Done and new (used) xfer case runs good. Just in time for new year. Will post details and lessons learned later. Suffice to say old one has several issues and newly installed one runs like a champ (so far).
The new transfer case was different in 2 ways.
One of the wire harnesses was slightly different - the original was 2 wires in a harness big enough for approx. 6 while the replacement was same size/color 2 wire but harness connector only big enough for approx. 2 wires.
2nd thing was the end of emergency brake cable that connects to lever. The connection was same but there was no threaded part for the adjustment nut. It was just what appeared to be rubber nipple that fit perfectly. I only had to pull cable slightly (about 1/2 cm) to get pin in to attach to lever and checking adjustment it was already good with 3 clicks setting the brake.
The gear ration printed on replacement was same as original and if I remember correct the serial number started with 42D.
Any ideas on why the difference? Is replacement from a BMW or something or newer model or could it be a after market cable and my original transfer case not actually original thus the different wire harness?
One of the wire harnesses was slightly different - the original was 2 wires in a harness big enough for approx. 6 while the replacement was same size/color 2 wire but harness connector only big enough for approx. 2 wires.
2nd thing was the end of emergency brake cable that connects to lever. The connection was same but there was no threaded part for the adjustment nut. It was just what appeared to be rubber nipple that fit perfectly. I only had to pull cable slightly (about 1/2 cm) to get pin in to attach to lever and checking adjustment it was already good with 3 clicks setting the brake.
The gear ration printed on replacement was same as original and if I remember correct the serial number started with 42D.
Any ideas on why the difference? Is replacement from a BMW or something or newer model or could it be a after market cable and my original transfer case not actually original thus the different wire harness?
Things I learned but keep in mind this may not apply to all 230 transfer cases or individuals:
These are in no particular order and are for me and the xfer case I had specifically but hopefully will be of help to people later, even after thread is closed and growing mold.
Not sure why you would need any guide pins. Manual calls for them and numerous people recommend them. I considered making some but figured would wait and see if I really needed to and then make them during project. Where the case matches up to transmission there is one bolt sticking out of tranny to act as guide pin + the shaft from tranny + a stubby pin on bottom of transmission surface. With those 3 it lined up very well. In fact I actually had to line it up twice because 1st time I forgot to put in passenger side mounting bracket that connects transfer case to frame. I removed bolts to transfer case for removal of case and then after slid back a little I removed the single bolt that connects bracket from frame to give more room to maneuver case. My biggest issue lining transfer case up was being close to this bracket without catching on it. Not a big deal really. As I said it lined up pretty easy, HOWEVER, I did have a transmission jack that can angle both directions and has swivel wheels. Got it at Harbor Freight for $140. 800 lb jack.
I removed rear drive shaft entirely and front drive shaft just at case. This is probably normal. In hindsight I would have bought new bolts for front driveshaft as they face front and get hit with lots of road debris. I ended up finding 4 good ones out of the 8 from the two cases. Easiest for me was to remove the front output flange and then remove very large snap ring that prevents bolts form being removed. Not certain but was guessing due to clearance this is how it has to be done anyway. I had to build my own snap ring jumbo pliers as I had none that size.
The front output flange on old case had what appeared to be old dry wax buildup on the shaft. Is this normal? The bearing looked good and seal outside, but there was some stuff inside stuck on metal looking like burnt rubber. Any ideas? Replacement case looked good. Both appeared to have good splines.
I am guessing neutral safety switch was bad on original case because it never gave warning light when in neutral and I didn't realize it should until driving with new case in and getting chime & light. All the wires on original appeared to be connected good when disconnecting.
When original was out and on floor I could shift it from HI to N to LO easy and not shift at all on replacement. At first I was a bit panicked that replacement was bad but then read that you should not be able to shift it when key is not turned on. So would this mean interlock solenoid was bad on original OR I damaged it removing it? AND how would a bad interlock solenoid affect things and is it usually bad or good or are there gray areas in between where kinda bad?
I discovered that a very good height for this job was to have vehicle at 19 inches off ground all the way around. This is measuring at notches where wheel jack is meant to be placed. Even then, I had to raise one rear wheel a little higher to be able to roll tranny jack out with the xfer case on it. IF I would have had vehicle higher then it would have been inconvenient for working as further to reach with arms. If you are 6'2" with long arms you might want to put it at about 22" and have room for rolling case out on jack. The tranny jack I had said it went up to 24-1/2 " and it was able to go plenty high.
I removed muffler to make more room so easier dropping and raising as case cannot go straight up and down due to shaft. I am pretty sure I read of people not removing muffler but it was only 3 bolts, but the gasket at rear of muffler is not an easy find locally and best bet would be to buy it ahead with new bolts too. You could easily find bolts and nuts locally as the only concern is length and diameter and grade. No need to be metric as they simply go through holes, not thread into them. I ended up spending twice the price for after market gasket and then modifying holes in it to fit as they were slightly off.
maybe this is common but I didn't realize it prior to job - the wires and shift cable can be removed after lowering case a bit. I didn't realize at first there was enough slack. Just slide them off the tabs on top first. These tabs are where harnesses slide onto case to keep them in place and not too bad to get too. Disconnecting wires themselves is much more difficult and far easier with case lower. There is a small bolt on top securing part of shift cable (about 1 foot from cable end) and I would also suggest disconnecting that to give more slack.
The repair manual said the shift cable was connected with a clip and no nut at the cable casing end (not very end of cable which does have small clip), but mine had no clip nor a place for one and was attached to case with a 15/16 or 23mm nut.
Best attribute about having the tranny jack was being able to subtly control the up/down and tilting with ease. It essentially changed the case from 100 pounds to 10 pounds. This is really good with all the wires and cable to deal with. Well worth the investment even if for one job as you can sell it after to recoup some, keep it for lots of future tasks, and have it in case replacement xfer case is a dud.
When lining up shaft splines it helped to use 10 mm wrench to shift manual interlock on top of case and then rotate front flange. Just make sure to shift it back with wrench.
The front exhaust pipe have a gasket on each side and again not likely to find locally. The part number is ETC4524 and easy to find online. It is common for the gaskets to be bad and good idea to replace them as long as disconnected anyway. I had one very bad and one ok, so reused one and used muffler tape cut into shape for 2nd one for the time being. I ordered a set online and will have to install them once they arrive. I did have one of those bolts break and wasn't able to get it out. I gave up on it since have to work on it again to put gaskets in anyway. Any ideas on how to get these out? These are the ones that have 2 threaded ends and screw into manifold. I tried heating with torch and then tried turning with vise grips after cooled but no luck. Any ideas?
Boy these rigs are heavy heavy heavy. I would strongly advise to use a MINIMUM of 3 ton rated floor jack and jack stands and then at minimum have one stand under each corner with blocks under each wheel in case of jack or stand failure. Just leave 1/2 inch gap between tires and blocks so you can rotate wheels for the job. I had a 2-1/2 ton floor jack that has never given me problems and the frame on it actually twisted raising rear end. Keep in mind that blocks under tires should also have chocks to prevent roll because the driveshafts & emergency brake will all be disconnected letting it roll if it drops. I used 2 x 10's screwed together and 2x4's screwed in at each end of block for wheel chock. Even though there is plenty of room under a disco without being jacked up, it is sooo heavy that if it falls it will bounce down and could mess you up PLUS a stand or jack could do damage if disco falls very far.
These are in no particular order and are for me and the xfer case I had specifically but hopefully will be of help to people later, even after thread is closed and growing mold.
Not sure why you would need any guide pins. Manual calls for them and numerous people recommend them. I considered making some but figured would wait and see if I really needed to and then make them during project. Where the case matches up to transmission there is one bolt sticking out of tranny to act as guide pin + the shaft from tranny + a stubby pin on bottom of transmission surface. With those 3 it lined up very well. In fact I actually had to line it up twice because 1st time I forgot to put in passenger side mounting bracket that connects transfer case to frame. I removed bolts to transfer case for removal of case and then after slid back a little I removed the single bolt that connects bracket from frame to give more room to maneuver case. My biggest issue lining transfer case up was being close to this bracket without catching on it. Not a big deal really. As I said it lined up pretty easy, HOWEVER, I did have a transmission jack that can angle both directions and has swivel wheels. Got it at Harbor Freight for $140. 800 lb jack.
I removed rear drive shaft entirely and front drive shaft just at case. This is probably normal. In hindsight I would have bought new bolts for front driveshaft as they face front and get hit with lots of road debris. I ended up finding 4 good ones out of the 8 from the two cases. Easiest for me was to remove the front output flange and then remove very large snap ring that prevents bolts form being removed. Not certain but was guessing due to clearance this is how it has to be done anyway. I had to build my own snap ring jumbo pliers as I had none that size.
The front output flange on old case had what appeared to be old dry wax buildup on the shaft. Is this normal? The bearing looked good and seal outside, but there was some stuff inside stuck on metal looking like burnt rubber. Any ideas? Replacement case looked good. Both appeared to have good splines.
I am guessing neutral safety switch was bad on original case because it never gave warning light when in neutral and I didn't realize it should until driving with new case in and getting chime & light. All the wires on original appeared to be connected good when disconnecting.
When original was out and on floor I could shift it from HI to N to LO easy and not shift at all on replacement. At first I was a bit panicked that replacement was bad but then read that you should not be able to shift it when key is not turned on. So would this mean interlock solenoid was bad on original OR I damaged it removing it? AND how would a bad interlock solenoid affect things and is it usually bad or good or are there gray areas in between where kinda bad?
I discovered that a very good height for this job was to have vehicle at 19 inches off ground all the way around. This is measuring at notches where wheel jack is meant to be placed. Even then, I had to raise one rear wheel a little higher to be able to roll tranny jack out with the xfer case on it. IF I would have had vehicle higher then it would have been inconvenient for working as further to reach with arms. If you are 6'2" with long arms you might want to put it at about 22" and have room for rolling case out on jack. The tranny jack I had said it went up to 24-1/2 " and it was able to go plenty high.
I removed muffler to make more room so easier dropping and raising as case cannot go straight up and down due to shaft. I am pretty sure I read of people not removing muffler but it was only 3 bolts, but the gasket at rear of muffler is not an easy find locally and best bet would be to buy it ahead with new bolts too. You could easily find bolts and nuts locally as the only concern is length and diameter and grade. No need to be metric as they simply go through holes, not thread into them. I ended up spending twice the price for after market gasket and then modifying holes in it to fit as they were slightly off.
maybe this is common but I didn't realize it prior to job - the wires and shift cable can be removed after lowering case a bit. I didn't realize at first there was enough slack. Just slide them off the tabs on top first. These tabs are where harnesses slide onto case to keep them in place and not too bad to get too. Disconnecting wires themselves is much more difficult and far easier with case lower. There is a small bolt on top securing part of shift cable (about 1 foot from cable end) and I would also suggest disconnecting that to give more slack.
The repair manual said the shift cable was connected with a clip and no nut at the cable casing end (not very end of cable which does have small clip), but mine had no clip nor a place for one and was attached to case with a 15/16 or 23mm nut.
Best attribute about having the tranny jack was being able to subtly control the up/down and tilting with ease. It essentially changed the case from 100 pounds to 10 pounds. This is really good with all the wires and cable to deal with. Well worth the investment even if for one job as you can sell it after to recoup some, keep it for lots of future tasks, and have it in case replacement xfer case is a dud.
When lining up shaft splines it helped to use 10 mm wrench to shift manual interlock on top of case and then rotate front flange. Just make sure to shift it back with wrench.
The front exhaust pipe have a gasket on each side and again not likely to find locally. The part number is ETC4524 and easy to find online. It is common for the gaskets to be bad and good idea to replace them as long as disconnected anyway. I had one very bad and one ok, so reused one and used muffler tape cut into shape for 2nd one for the time being. I ordered a set online and will have to install them once they arrive. I did have one of those bolts break and wasn't able to get it out. I gave up on it since have to work on it again to put gaskets in anyway. Any ideas on how to get these out? These are the ones that have 2 threaded ends and screw into manifold. I tried heating with torch and then tried turning with vise grips after cooled but no luck. Any ideas?
Boy these rigs are heavy heavy heavy. I would strongly advise to use a MINIMUM of 3 ton rated floor jack and jack stands and then at minimum have one stand under each corner with blocks under each wheel in case of jack or stand failure. Just leave 1/2 inch gap between tires and blocks so you can rotate wheels for the job. I had a 2-1/2 ton floor jack that has never given me problems and the frame on it actually twisted raising rear end. Keep in mind that blocks under tires should also have chocks to prevent roll because the driveshafts & emergency brake will all be disconnected letting it roll if it drops. I used 2 x 10's screwed together and 2x4's screwed in at each end of block for wheel chock. Even though there is plenty of room under a disco without being jacked up, it is sooo heavy that if it falls it will bounce down and could mess you up PLUS a stand or jack could do damage if disco falls very far.
Last edited by kyzur; Jan 2, 2012 at 02:02 AM.
I did not dig into original case I removed and not sure whether I will rebuild or scrap it out or piece it out yet.
Should I start a new thread IF I do decide to rebuild it? If I tear it apart I was thinking I should at least add what I find wrong in it to this thread so it coordinates with the original symptoms?
Thank you to everybody for input, advice, and help, and wishing for you all to have a wonderful new year.
Should I start a new thread IF I do decide to rebuild it? If I tear it apart I was thinking I should at least add what I find wrong in it to this thread so it coordinates with the original symptoms?
Thank you to everybody for input, advice, and help, and wishing for you all to have a wonderful new year.
Thank you for this info, this will help may.
Yes start a new thread if you tear into your old case.
There is only a buzzer warning if the t-case is in neutral and there is NO light warning.
The light with the "X" in the middle of the driveline means that the CDL is locked, when that light is on DO NOT drive on paved dry roads.
Yes start a new thread if you tear into your old case.
There is only a buzzer warning if the t-case is in neutral and there is NO light warning.
The light with the "X" in the middle of the driveline means that the CDL is locked, when that light is on DO NOT drive on paved dry roads.
that is odd because before there was no chime nor light. NOW, there is chime AND light with "X" when shifted from HI or LO to neutral.
Any ideas why?
Do I have wires mixed up or something bad with transfer case?
Any ideas why?
Do I have wires mixed up or something bad with transfer case?
I think we are talking about 2 different warning lights.
---The one that came on when transfer case in neutral is a small gear and large gear with "X" through them and is called the "transfer box neutral warning lamp".
---Just below that one is what looks like a large "H" with small "X" through it and this one is called the "differential lock warning lamp". I have never seen that one lit.
I wonder under what condition or failure (other than bulb burnt out) would the neutral warning lamp NOT light up? It didn't with original transfer case and sounds like maybe "spike555" hasn't seen it light up either.
---The one that came on when transfer case in neutral is a small gear and large gear with "X" through them and is called the "transfer box neutral warning lamp".
---Just below that one is what looks like a large "H" with small "X" through it and this one is called the "differential lock warning lamp". I have never seen that one lit.
I wonder under what condition or failure (other than bulb burnt out) would the neutral warning lamp NOT light up? It didn't with original transfer case and sounds like maybe "spike555" hasn't seen it light up either.
Spike, he has a D2. The small gear/large gear with an "X" light is the transfer case neutral light. This light, and a buzzer should light/sound when the transfer case shifter is in neutral. Mine has recently stopped working, so I am suspecting the neutral switch or plug.
The "H" with an "x" in the middle is transfer case lock light. This light engages when the transfer case is in the locked position, locking front and rear drive shafts. On a 2004 D2 this is engaged by moving the transfer case shifter to the left, or on a 1999-2001.5 D2 by turning the but on the top of the transfer case that the transfer case lock linkage would connect to.
BIG FREAKING WARNING!!!
driving on normal roads with the transfer case locked will kill the transfer case!!!!!!!
One of two things happened with the transfer case replacement: either the nut and lever to lock the transfer case was turned at some point, or there is an electrical problem. I didn't have time to search the forum for a picture of the transfer case lock mechanism in the urgency of this reply to avoid driving with a locked transfer case, but it is here somewhere.
Does the "H" with an "x" light go off if you restart it? If the transfer case is truly locked on a D2, when you shut down and restart the vehicle, you will also get the ABS and HDC lights.
Please let us know, so as to save the new transfer case!!
The "H" with an "x" in the middle is transfer case lock light. This light engages when the transfer case is in the locked position, locking front and rear drive shafts. On a 2004 D2 this is engaged by moving the transfer case shifter to the left, or on a 1999-2001.5 D2 by turning the but on the top of the transfer case that the transfer case lock linkage would connect to.
BIG FREAKING WARNING!!!
driving on normal roads with the transfer case locked will kill the transfer case!!!!!!!
One of two things happened with the transfer case replacement: either the nut and lever to lock the transfer case was turned at some point, or there is an electrical problem. I didn't have time to search the forum for a picture of the transfer case lock mechanism in the urgency of this reply to avoid driving with a locked transfer case, but it is here somewhere.
Does the "H" with an "x" light go off if you restart it? If the transfer case is truly locked on a D2, when you shut down and restart the vehicle, you will also get the ABS and HDC lights.
Please let us know, so as to save the new transfer case!!
We seem to have jumped into a giant soup of confusion.
From actual seeing lamps with my own eyes & reading Land Rover documents my understanding is as follows:
I have a Disco 2 '99. The transfer case is working 100% ok. With this year & series there are 2 warning lamps that we are talking about here (one = XFER CASE IS IN NEUTRAL & 2nd = XFER CASE IS LOCKED). These 2 lights are directly above/below each other on upper left. I have NEVER seen the 2nd "XFER CASE IS LOCKED" illuminate. Prior to replacement the "XFER CASE IS IN NEUTRAL" never chimed or illuminated despite shifting to neutral, but xfer case in now does exactly as it is supposed to and will chime AND illuminate the "XFER CASE IS IN NEUTRAL" warning lamp when in fact in neutral.
I had previously mentioned being able to shift original xfer case when out of vehicle and then learned this was not supposed to be possible so something was wrong. It kinda makes sense now that it would shift and also had never chimed/lit lamp when in neutral. As if the same issue caused both symptoms. For the record the replacement case was unable to be shifted when out of vehicle. At 1st this worried me, but then I learned this is exactly as it should be since it is supposed to be unable to shift without key turned on in ignition. As you can imagine, being able to shift to neutral without key in would not be very good thing.
From actual seeing lamps with my own eyes & reading Land Rover documents my understanding is as follows:
I have a Disco 2 '99. The transfer case is working 100% ok. With this year & series there are 2 warning lamps that we are talking about here (one = XFER CASE IS IN NEUTRAL & 2nd = XFER CASE IS LOCKED). These 2 lights are directly above/below each other on upper left. I have NEVER seen the 2nd "XFER CASE IS LOCKED" illuminate. Prior to replacement the "XFER CASE IS IN NEUTRAL" never chimed or illuminated despite shifting to neutral, but xfer case in now does exactly as it is supposed to and will chime AND illuminate the "XFER CASE IS IN NEUTRAL" warning lamp when in fact in neutral.
I had previously mentioned being able to shift original xfer case when out of vehicle and then learned this was not supposed to be possible so something was wrong. It kinda makes sense now that it would shift and also had never chimed/lit lamp when in neutral. As if the same issue caused both symptoms. For the record the replacement case was unable to be shifted when out of vehicle. At 1st this worried me, but then I learned this is exactly as it should be since it is supposed to be unable to shift without key turned on in ignition. As you can imagine, being able to shift to neutral without key in would not be very good thing.


