Hello Land Rover Community,

Under normal circumstances I never, ever voice my opinion about a company or a product Good or Bad. However I felt it would be necessary in this situation to make an exception to my rule. Usually, I feel it’s not really worth it but, in this case I am going to follow through.

I will be posting this on every LR forum on the net. So for you all, that are like me you will be seeing this post multiple places.

Let start with the back story:

Lady backs up into my 2003 LR Disco 2 bumper (we all know they are made of egg shell) anyways, she ask that instead of filling an insurance claim, I find a bumper and she will pay for it. (SCORE) I have been wanting some armor for a while. So, my choices are pretty endless Rovertyn,ARB ETC… I figure let me cut this lady some slack and instead of spending 900+ on a bumper I pick bottorf-fabrication. Small independent, seems to offer great product at an affordable price. Reviews looks pretty solid. Well what has transpired since I put my order back on March 18th. Honestly I am disgusted by these guys: I have 65 email from them. I will post them under this thread. What I am looking for is whether or not I am being a pain in the *** or is it that these guys don’t have the **** together and really aren’t worth my time or by anyone else’s. What I can’t prove is the first conversation I had with Nate the owner back in the middle of March was that he was not busy, had no large orders and would be able to “Knock it out. FAST!!” So I contacted the lady who hit me and that same night she had her husband call Bottorf fabrication and give them their credit card number.

Here is what I am trying to accomplish, I don’t mean harm to anyone or any business. All I am trying to tell the community is buyer beware. Unless these guys make some internal changes I don’t see how they will be able to continue to compete with larger LR aftermarket vendors.

Sometime the spending a little cost a lot. All I want is for my bumper to come in. A tracking number from UPS that works That’s it..I don’t want anymore or any less.

Bottorf fabrication even offered to refund the card and still send the bumper. I AM NOT TRYING TO GET ANYTHING FREE, FROM THEM THEY WERE PAID, AND ARE DUE THEIR MONEY, UNLESS THEY CANT DELIVER THE BUMPER.

Please post your comments below after reading the emails.

Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com> to rick.lopez1@gmail.com, jaysnt9@aol.com

March 25th

Rick and Jay,

Sorry for the delay in getting this to you. Attached is your receipt. We’ll be shipping shortly.

Take Care,
-Nate
Bottorf Fabrication
'off the rocker since 2005'
www.Botttorf-Fabrication.com
814-414-4169
April 12th
Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

Hi Nate,
Do you have an update?
Thanks
Sent from my Droid X

April 19th

Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

Hi can you give me a call I wanted to hear from you and find out when I would be receiving the bumper ? Call me at 32121-xxxx thank you
Sent from my Droid X

April 19th

Hi Rick,

I’m knocking yours out of the park this week. I’ll give you a ring tonight. I’m finishing it up today.

April 22nd

Can you tell me when I should expect the bumper? I haven't heard from you.

April 22nd

HI Rick,

Wednesday is the delivery date. I’m out until Monday for the holiday.

Take Care,
-Nate

April 22nd

Great, Monday is my birthday, so having it by next week would be awesome.

- Show quoted text -

April 27th

The bumper did not make it in today do you have an eta or a tracking number
Sent from my Droid X

April 27th


Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com> to Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com>

Hi Rick,

Looking into it now for you.

April 28th


Do we have an update?


April 28th
Hi Rick,

Yes, as of today it was outbound from Jacksonville. It was held up in Columbia due to the weather.

(I live in Orlando, 3 hours away from Jacksonville)

April 28th
Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

ok thanks, so is the estimated arrival date tomorrow?

April 28th
Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com> to Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com>

I would say Monday. I could be wrong though, I’ll know more when I see the fax tomorrow morning. I’ll update you as soon as I see it.

April 28th
Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

Ok thanks Nate. I will send you some pics once I put it on.

May 2nd

Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

nate can you send me the shipping companies name and telephone number plus the tracking number
Sent from my Droid X
- Show quoted text -


This is where it starts to get shady

May 2nd

Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com> to Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com>

Rick,

I will this week. I don’t get back the office every day. I am in the shop which is roughly 15 miles from the office.

May 2nd

Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

Who is the shipping company. I can call them, and im sure they can track it.
Sent from my Droid X
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May 3rd

rick.Lopez1@gmail.com to Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com>

Nate,

I need reassurance that the bumper has in fact been shipped. Looking back at our emails your answers have been short and vague at best. On several occasions you have promised quick delivery and response. I was expecting this bumper last week and today is Tuesday and I have no email confirmation with tracking number or who is delivering the package. I have an email from you saying that the bumper was outbound from Jacksonville on 4/28. I am less than 3 hours from Jacksonville and I have not received a call from the shipping company. Please furnish all the pertaining details. If not I will have no choice but to file to a dispute with my credit card company for fraud. Frankly, I am disappointed in the level of customer service I have received. I doubt highly I will be buying from your company or referring any business to your company because of the level of disconnect. Being a small business owner I would hope you would not take offense to my email and rather do what you can on your end to clear this up ASAP. I expect a response in a timely fashion.
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May 3rd

Rick,

I go by the word of our shipping department as I work in the shop mainly and cannot be in all three locations at once. I will drive down today to make sure that it is on its way. When I get time this week I will also run to the office and get the tracking information that you have been asking for. If this is not suitable I will refund you in full immediately. Please let me know which way you would like to go and we’ll get it done.

Take Care,
-Nate

May 3rd

Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

I guess it depends on whether or not it actually has been shipped.
Sent from my Droid X
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May 3rd

Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com> to Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com>

I will find that out today for you Rick.
10:53am

May 3rd

Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

do you have any updates
Sent from my Droid X

6:45pm

May 3rd

Hi Rick,

I do and it isn’t going to be what you want to hear. I have pictures, your bumper is on its way back, damaged. No structural damage but the paint is just about completely gone. I am filling out the claim paperwork and will forward you a copy either way. What I need to know is do you want us to get a replacement out to you or just refund you in full? I will tell you up front that the replacement won’t leave here until Friday. I will be the one personally handling it so I will be printing the label and will email you with it if you choose that route.

-Nate

Never got the pictures or the receipt

May 3rd


Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

at this point the only thing I have to go by is your word. Please send me the confirmation tracking number on friday when you get the bumper out.
Sent from my Droid X
- Show quoted text –


May 3rd

Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com> to Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com>

Will do Rick. I will also forward you a copy of the paper work tomorrow.

May 6th


Any updates?
Sent from my Droid X
On Mar 25, 2011 10:21 AM, "Nate" <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com> wrote:


May 7th

Rick,

I am out for the weekend but will give you an update first thing Monday.
-Nate

May 7th

SURE.



May 9th


Update?

May 9th

Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

I didn't hear from you today. I called the office and left you a message.
Sent from my Droid X



May 10th

Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com> to Rick Lopez rick.lopez1@gmail.com

( This is where Bottorf becomes a multi billion coporation where one hand doesn’t now what the other hand is doing)

Rick,

Apologies, it’s been a busy week. Melanie will have a tracking number to you before the end of the day.

-Nate


May 10th


Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

So has it gone out? Our is it going out today? Who is Melanie so I can follow up with her, number / email address.
Sent from my Droid X

May 11th


Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

So has it gone out? Our is it going out today? Who is Melanie so I can follow up with her, number / email address.
Sent from my Droid X

May 11th

rick.Lopez1@gmail.com to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

Nate,

I have not heard from anyone. If you were in my shoes, i hope you would understand how frustrating this is becoming.

May 11th

Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com> to rick.Lopez1@gmail.com

Rick,

Melanie has your number. I will call you in the morning since she obviously didn’t.

May 11th


Rick <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

Can you tell me if has been shipped?


Sent from my iPad 2

May 11th

Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com> to Rick <rick.lopez1@gmail.com>

Rick,

Yes, it has been shipped.
May 11th

Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

have you had an opportunity to follow up with your internal contact for the shipping details? I have not heard from anyone. all I need is who the shipping company is and the tracking number.
Sent from my Droid X

May 11th

Rick <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

The only constant throughout this entire process, is when you say your going to do something. You dont, i have recieved a call nor have i recevied the tracking number you promised. I hope this isnt how you treat all your customers.

Sent from my iPad 2

May 11th

Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com> to Rick <rick.lopez1@gmail.com>

Rick,

Is the day over? I work until almost 1 in the morning. I will have a tracking number to you today. From there I will follow up with UPS to figure out when the delivery will be.

May 12th


Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

nate I realize that you are very busy and and work really hard too late hours and is unable to follow through with the details but I have not heard from anyone and I did not get the tracking number yesterday that you have been promising to supply if you could be so kind as to giving me melanie direct number or email address I will follow up with her. if I could make 1 suggestion on how to run a business you should always under promise and over deliver instead of over promising and under delivering.
Sent from my Droid X
- Show quoted text -

May 12th


Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

1 o'clock in the afternoon and I still haven't received any updates from you today
Sent from my Droid X
- Show quoted text -

May 12th

Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com> to Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com>

Rick,

Tracking number will be in your hands I am in the shop right now.

May 12th


Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

nate on may third you told me you would forward the paperwork to me on may fourth its now may 12th and everyday you have a new excuse. get me the tracking number today or or I sign up for every land rover forum on the web and post this string of emails that I have kept as documentation showing your lack of the follow up, commitment and most of all of these excuses. I have called your store several times with no phone calls in return. I really wish I had bought it on ebay so I could give you a really bad rating this is just bull****. there are so many options towards buying bumpers on the net and I chose to buy 1 from you never again. if I don't get the bumper I will make sure everyone knows what a scam you are. lift up your skirt and grab your ***** and give me a call.
Sent from my Droid X
- Show quoted text -


May 12th


Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com> to Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com>

Rick,

We don’t take lightly to threats. I have passed this on to our legal department. A full refund will be given today and your bumper was scheduled for delivery on Monday. Tracking number is: 1ZY193V80392185155. Because of the comment below, we have recalled the shipment and will have it canceled out. We have a two plus month waiting period for a reason and for that same reason we do will not tolerate threats. If you have any further comments you may direct them to John who is head of our legal department. You may contact him at our customer service email address or by our normal 814-414-4169 number. If you would like I can have him contact you as well.

Regards,
-Nate


This is where we had a few conversations by phone, all I can say is that not nice words were used. LOL, here are the following emails after a few phone calls. I was introduced to their “LEGAL Departmenr” John?



May 12th


Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

nate have john call me since you are too ***** to
Sent from my Droid X
- Show quoted text -

May 12th

Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

snake (I meant Nate) you are full of **** and a ****in liar the bumper was never sent it man up ****** stop hiding behind email
Sent from my Droid X


May 12th


Rick <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

What a joke of a company. My voice will be heard i promise you.

Sent from my iPad 2
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May 12th


Customer Service <customerservice@bottorf-fabrication.com> to Rick <rick.lopez1@gmail.com>

Rick,

All it takes is a simple yes and the bumper will be at your door Monday. I’ll even approve a 50% refund AND a bumper at your door. We would like to resolve this with you, but will only do so on an adult level. If we cannot resolve this by tomorrow we will be sending all email threats as well as our conversations to the address below for the filing of harassment charges.

Regards,
-John

May 12th


Rick <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Customer Service <customerservice@bottorf-fabrication.com>

Yes, send me my bumper and yes give me a 50% refund on the purchase. I hope to see the bumper on my doorstep by this upcoming monday.

Sent from my iPad 2
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May 12th


Customer Service <customerservice@bottorf-fabrication.com> to Rick <rick.lopez1@gmail.com>

Will do.

From: Rick [mailto:rick.lopez1@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 5:16 PM
To: Customer Service
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Forward


May 16th

Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Customer Service <customerservice@bottorf-fabrication.com>

Was the credit card partial reimbursement submitted, and what is the tracking number for the delivery?
Sent from my Droid X
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May 16th

Customer Service <customerservice@bottorf-fabrication.com> to Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com>

Rick,

Actually a full credit was issued last week. I will let that credit stand until the bumper is in your hands and I hear from you. I think it is only fair for you to give us an assessment when you get it and if you like it you can pay what you think it is worth. Sound Fair?

From: Rick Lopez [mailto:rick.lopez1@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 10:48 AM
To: Customer Service
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May 16th


Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Customer Service <customerservice@bottorf-fabrication.com>

So when should I expect the bumper to come in
Sent from my Droid X
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Reply
Forward


May 18th

Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Customer Service <customerservice@bottorf-fabrication.com>, Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>, "jaysnt9@aol.com" <jaysnt9@aol.com>

Here is where we stand. No credit has been issued to the card ..the tracking number you gave is wrong. Am I just wasting time following up.?
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Reply
Reply All
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May 18th


Customer Service <customerservice@bottorf-fabrication.com> to Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com>

The tracking number is not wrong Rick and a refund has been issued. If you would like I will have the accounting office forward copies of it. The tracking number is also correct, but if UPS hasn’t updated it we have no control over that.

May 18th

Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Customer Service <customerservice@bottorf-fabrication.com>

Why don't you try the tracking number yourself..or send it to me again because the one I have is not correct. Yes forward me the paperwork.
- Show quoted text -

May 18th

Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Customer Service <customerservice@bottorf-fabrication.com>

John I highly doubt that ups is multi 1,000,000 dollar tracking system is unable to locate your package the tracking number that you supplied is wrong and unless you forward me another number the 1 that I have is incorrect. I also have not received the paperwork if you promise that you're going to send me john.
On May 18, 2011 1:04 PM, "Customer Service" <customerservice@bottorf-fabrication.com> wrote:


May 18th


Customer Service <customerservice@bottorf-fabrication.com> to Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com>

Rick,
You are not the only customer and when I get a chance today I will send you a copy of the refund. I will also tell you once again that the number that I gave you and confirmed with you on the phone is the correct number. I can see it on this end and as of today it still says that a label has been created. I will follow up again tomorrow with UPS for an update.

From: Rick Lopez [mailto:rick.lopez1@gmail.com]




RECAP – NO BUMPER, NO UPS TRACKING NUMBER, NO CREDIT ON CARD…..Would I recommend this company to anyone, NO!

Buyer beware, Had Nate been real from the beginning and told me that the bumper would have taken 3 months to get to me I would have been totally cool, the fact is this is classic OVERPROMISE AND UNDER DELIVER, no wonder this country is in the toilet with Small business not surviving….If this is how they plan to continue to run their shop I doubt highly they will be around much longer. Sadly their designs are KICK *** and in the end all I want is the bumper that was paid for.