Cheap freon
#11
Yes there is plenty of hard data on this subject if you are in the A/C business or follow it more than just casually.
The first evidence is the use of a hologram purity guarantee stickers on kegs of R134a produced by the likes of Honeywell/ Dupont etc. This was prompted by a rash of counterfeit refrigerants coming in and being sold as pure R134a and others like Puron from China, Pakistan, Turkey etc.
In any case change is on the horizon with universal adoption of 1234YF this year by Euro manufacturers and Chrysler who has already followed suit to get carbon credits.
Currently 12334YF is $150/lb by the way--enough to deter most and maybe the next step to prevent DIY A/C repairs as has happened in most parts of the industrialized world. In any case with more modern platforms using the now universal swash plate computer controlled Denso compressors you need a scanner and precise fill procedures to make the system work so in many cases only the most ardent and informed DIY'r will be able to fix his own A/C . For example the 2010 MB Sprinter van together with many other vehicles are out there with these more sophisticated systems on them. A shot of parts store refrigerant no matter what its purity won't help these DIY owners.
T/V
The first evidence is the use of a hologram purity guarantee stickers on kegs of R134a produced by the likes of Honeywell/ Dupont etc. This was prompted by a rash of counterfeit refrigerants coming in and being sold as pure R134a and others like Puron from China, Pakistan, Turkey etc.
In any case change is on the horizon with universal adoption of 1234YF this year by Euro manufacturers and Chrysler who has already followed suit to get carbon credits.
Currently 12334YF is $150/lb by the way--enough to deter most and maybe the next step to prevent DIY A/C repairs as has happened in most parts of the industrialized world. In any case with more modern platforms using the now universal swash plate computer controlled Denso compressors you need a scanner and precise fill procedures to make the system work so in many cases only the most ardent and informed DIY'r will be able to fix his own A/C . For example the 2010 MB Sprinter van together with many other vehicles are out there with these more sophisticated systems on them. A shot of parts store refrigerant no matter what its purity won't help these DIY owners.
T/V
#13
#14
No! I work on A/C systems, have done so for about 50 years and sell/ install big truck comfort units (APU's - no idle systems) on Class 8 rigs amongst other things!
I have an EPA license to dispense all types of refrigerants.
By the way you should not be venting it to the atmosphere, its a pollutant if I need mentioning that!
Its one of the reasons why there is very little ozone layer over southern Chile and kids have to wear sunglasses to prevent cataracts.
Serious stuff
I think nowadays the US is the only industrialized county which still allows DIY A/C repairs!
As I see by reading the "tea leaves" it that will be changing very soon so enjoy that while you can!
Amistades
T/V
I have an EPA license to dispense all types of refrigerants.
By the way you should not be venting it to the atmosphere, its a pollutant if I need mentioning that!
Its one of the reasons why there is very little ozone layer over southern Chile and kids have to wear sunglasses to prevent cataracts.
Serious stuff
I think nowadays the US is the only industrialized county which still allows DIY A/C repairs!
As I see by reading the "tea leaves" it that will be changing very soon so enjoy that while you can!
Amistades
T/V
#15
I'm with tuercas viejas, there is no such thing as 'cheap' only the right price for the right goods. I was in the industry where refrigerant was used a lot and I would never dabble with cheap fixes for any vehicle even and 'cheap' one. They are dangerous in the wrong hands. Personally, I'd rather pay a reputable A/C expert shop to recharge my A/C system once every now and then than a cheapo can of refrigerant from a DIY store and risk screwing up my A/C system. Depends how desperate or confident one is, I play the safe game when I'm unsure.
#16
No! I work on A/C systems, have done so for about 50 years and sell/ install big truck comfort units (APU's - no idle systems) on Class 8 rigs amongst other things!
I have an EPA license to dispense all types of refrigerants.
By the way you should not be venting it to the atmosphere, its a pollutant if I need mentioning that!
Its one of the reasons why there is very little ozone layer over southern Chile and kids have to wear sunglasses to prevent cataracts.
Serious stuff
I think nowadays the US is the only industrialized county which still allows DIY A/C repairs!
As I see by reading the "tea leaves" it that will be changing very soon so enjoy that while you can!
Amistades
T/V
I have an EPA license to dispense all types of refrigerants.
By the way you should not be venting it to the atmosphere, its a pollutant if I need mentioning that!
Its one of the reasons why there is very little ozone layer over southern Chile and kids have to wear sunglasses to prevent cataracts.
Serious stuff
I think nowadays the US is the only industrialized county which still allows DIY A/C repairs!
As I see by reading the "tea leaves" it that will be changing very soon so enjoy that while you can!
Amistades
T/V
#17
Sometimes the EPA regulations cause more harm than good.
#18
I'm with tuercas viejas, there is no such thing as 'cheap' only the right price for the right goods. I was in the industry where refrigerant was used a lot and I would never dabble with cheap fixes for any vehicle even and 'cheap' one. They are dangerous in the wrong hands. Personally, I'd rather pay a reputable A/C expert shop to recharge my A/C system once every now and then than a cheapo can of refrigerant from a DIY store and risk screwing up my A/C system. Depends how desperate or confident one is, I play the safe game when I'm unsure.
Yes well a great British expression "some mothers do have 'em!"
I suppose the greatest A/C DIY disaster in recent times has to be the Gen 2 Prius excercise in DIY expensive mistakes.
Car came in with a sudden loss of power, check engine light on, voltage converter faults made only worse when A/C was selected.
Have you touched this was the question and has anyone fixed anything on the car?--Dumb dewildered response a 'nodding dog naah!"
After about three hours of diagnosis focused attention fell on the A/C system. Analysis showed impure refrigerant and then in the glove box yes a can of autoparts store R134a!
Asking the owner, he fessed up to charging it with a DIY can 'O gas!
OMG
Well that was a big mistake because the oil in the can is not compatible with the electric A/C compressor and it causes internal shorting of the higher voltage motor windings pulling down converter power.
So to fix the car you will need a new compressor $3500, and new receiver drier/condenser assy $1500 and a flush out add $125, Diagnosis time has just hit $500 and there will be an additional 5 hours of repair time; so add about $650 in labor to replace all the parts and make it run. Oh and some pure refrigerant: very important that!
I didn't hear a clunk/thud as the poor guy fell on the floor but the phone line went very quiet for quite a while.
So yes know what you are dealing with before you get doing.
T/V
#19
"After about three hours of diagnosis focused attention fell on the A/C system. Analysis showed impure refrigerant and then in the glove box yes a can of autoparts store R134a!
Asking the owner, he fessed up to charging it with a DIY can 'O gas!
OMG
Well that was a big mistake because the oil in the can is not compatible with the electric A/C compressor and it causes internal shorting of the higher voltage motor windings pulling down"
WHAT CAR USES AN ELECTRIC AC COMPRESSOR?
i find it hilarious that the last half of the conversation is even taken place, if you cared about a carbon footprint you wont be driving a land-rover to begin with !
Asking the owner, he fessed up to charging it with a DIY can 'O gas!
OMG
Well that was a big mistake because the oil in the can is not compatible with the electric A/C compressor and it causes internal shorting of the higher voltage motor windings pulling down"
WHAT CAR USES AN ELECTRIC AC COMPRESSOR?
i find it hilarious that the last half of the conversation is even taken place, if you cared about a carbon footprint you wont be driving a land-rover to begin with !