lol.. don't worry - I don't expect you to take an interest in what I say. It's not a throw everything at the wall and see if it sticks comment. It's my definition of spirituality because I believe spirituality to be a perception of occurrences - an intuitiveness. The therapist story is true as I heard the messages with my own ears so no, you won't find it on snopes. It was a personal experience. The point I was trying to make in that paragraph is that the true definition of 'spirituality' is a personal thing and cannot be defined by your frontal lobes - it comes from within oneself. Perception, intuitiveness, coincidence, consciousness and love.

 

In the tests that were cited, I believe the fact that scientists used Buddhist monks and Catholic nuns as subjects was mentioned. Tests were conducted during meditation or prayer, times when a spiritual transcendence are most likely to occur. It was during these periods of meditation or prayer that brain scans were conducted. This was used as a baseline for further tested. It's not perfect and, no, may not be everyone's definition of what a spiritual moment is, but, given what we have to work with, the results are intriguing and, as is usually the case in scientific research, only point to how much more we need to know.

As I had mentioned in another response to your post, language and meaning are other branches of philosophy and psychology that are worthy of a completely separate thread.

 

You are right Paul, I can never go back. I already know. I'm already in love with his goodness. You must have heard at one time or another the story of the man who finds a pearl in a field that is of more value to him than anything he has ever dreamed of, and he goes and sells everything in order to purchase and obtain that field. Christ has been that pearl to me. And even more so in that He found me and not I Him. He wanted me. He chose me.

I don't believe I have ever met a nun in my life. I certainly have never been a catholic.... or any other denomination for that matter. Matter of fact, my folks were non religious. We never went to church and I can't remember there ever being a Bible laying around. My testimony of conversion is awesome !!

 

I thought it made a lot of sense KD. I followed your post perfectly. It was spiritual and I understood it spiritually.

 

Senormac, as you are a practitioner of Christianity I have every respect for your personal beliefs and if it works for you so be it. What I find hard to grasp is the confusion between the technological future advancements and stale religious beliefs of the past, if that's the correct terminology, as they are not one and the same thing. The advancement of neuro sciences as much as the advancement of technology has to be seriously considered and is not for closed minds to dismiss in the name of Christianity or any other sect. As does science then surely Christianity does not and should not stand still and evolves with knowledge and modern thought processes. Personal advancement must be a tenet of mankind otherwise we all remain entrenched in the historical past and would be living in caves rubbing sticks together to create fire. Modern materialism is also a state of mind and often an ego trip for many a "keeping up with the Jones's" scenario rather than personal goal and achievement therefore this scenario should apply equally to the evolving world in religion and Chritianity as more modern knowledge becomes available and those sects or religions should move forward.

For me the option of opting into a religion or Christianity is and never will be a viable thought provoking idea, I'm comfortable where I stand today as I have been for the past 55 years. However, I would never wish to pressure others into 'becoming' a non believer whether they be the young, middle aged or old. Everyone must make their own pitch in this world and be comfortable with their decisions and not pressure or preach to others or treat them as though they are missing the great realisation or treat them as an underclass. I know particularly well a top surgeon and a very intelligent man who is a catholic but that doesn't make him less intelligent or any less of a competent surgeon. On the other hand, I know other senior people who are non believers or atheists, call them what you may, but they are equally successful and intelligent also. The common theme with all of these people is they all without exception have morals, are good honest people and not egotistical with their achievements or intellects. Therefore I see no reason for my participation in any respect in the world of religion and spirituality unless it 'comes' to me like a bolt from the blue and I don't believe there is anything that I could experience to change my mind in any event. In the past 55 years I have never been or felt encumbered by any guilt or burden emanating from prior childhood religious pressures and my daily 'luck' has been absolutely no different to anyone else that I know. One might say it's a lazy choice, absolutely not, I still work my socks off even at 69 years old both mentally and physically.

 

No, honest ............... c'est terrible .................... far be it for me to poke fun at the French ..................... they make a good job of making fools of themselves .....................

 

Funny. I've never seen that show before. Watched Faulty Towers, Thin Blue Line, and Keeping Up Appearances. I might like to give that a watch. Is it available on disk?

As for the humor, it made me think of Tiger Woods LOL !!!!!!

 

'we could say that we are members of a pooooding club'

Thanks for the laugh Offroad - I needed it. ROUGH day and I'm ashamed to say that I had a tantrum at work this afternoon It was one of those days when everything hurts but my finger (sorry to hear about that ) and I wanted to yell 'Houston, we have a problem' as it seems that I can talk til I'm blue in the face and never be understood. I sent detailed e-mails and received one line replies back that had nothing to do with the topic at hand.... A very frustrating week really. I suppose I could have called down there but thought better of it as my tantrum would have been explosive

So you started my day off on the right foot and ended it just as well. Thank you

 

As a brief interlude, we can even poke fun at ourselves ................

http://www.buzzfeed.com/lukelewis/th...ritish#2doxr8i

Apologies for some of the, .................. eeerrrr vocabulary

 

KD, I'll reiterate my statement from earlier, if you want to get into the philosophy of language, that's for a different thread. I believe in your right to think what you like but I also believe in my right to expect some fundamental basis for anyone's belief.

Science does one thing and one thing at its core, it seeks the truth, good or bad, better or worse. There is no question of "should I" but rather, "can I. Science believes in evidence, reproducible evidence. Faith and belief don't , can't change facts. On the other hand, if you're a rational being, facts should be able to change your beliefs.

Neil Degrasse Tyson commented about religion and science and said that over time we are learning more and more. At the same time, more and more of what was at the core of religious belief is being shown to be false. With each new discovery, supported by scientific evidence, religion is forced further and further into an ever shrinking box. These days, talk of the multiverse is used by people of religion to say that is where god is and that science has merely invented a name for that which it cannot explain. The reality is that physics is what forces scientists towards the multiverse. Science, period.

I have always been of the mind that the principle reason for religion is the primal fear of ones own mortality. We as a species have a very hard time accepting that we exist in a very short time. So we clutch to an absurd notion of immortality (whether it be heaven, reincarnation or what have you) as a way to keep the fear at bay. It worked for thousands of years. Fortunately, with the dawn of the Age of Reason and the Scientific Revolution, these notions fell under greater scrutiny. Here we are in the 21st century and many of the pillars of support for religious belief are crumbling all around us. We are witnessing the dying throes of religion. Like a wounded animal, religions are lashing out trying to silence disbelievers because, with each passing day, their fundamentals grow weaker and weaker.

It's curious that as a species, it has been shown that we have a very limited ability to conceptualize great periods of time. We can handle a life span, maybe a hundred years, perhaps a bit longer. However, as a whole, human beings have no capability to conceptualize a hundred thousand years, a million years let along 4.54 billion years. So, it should come as no surprise that theories like evolution are so hard to grasp. You'll hear people ask where the first homosapien was born to neanderthal parents. This is a non question. Evolution occurs over such a long and protracted period of time that the change is like (simplistically put) staring at the hour hand trying to observe its change. We as a species, in the history of our planet are better fit to observe the second hand (and that's an understatement).

The bottom line in all of my posts here on this thread is that we need to have an objective place from which to start in our attempts to explain what is observed. To me, science is the place where we get rid of all our biases and embark on a journey to establish, for once and for all, truth. It's a truth based on facts, facts that can be scrutinized and tested. The real beauty of science is that with every step we take, with every discovery a scientist makes, it only serves to set us off in a great quest for answers. Each great discovery has caused us to not only ask more questions but questions we may never even considered. To me, that's a lot more exciting and fulfilling than any static belief system.

One last thing before I finish. I would like to address the question of the meaning of life without the belief in a higher spirit. To me, if you are a person who believes in an afterlife as a reward for adhering to a particular set of rules in order to gain entry, you are not a moral person. You are a person merely gaming the system for your perceived advantage. For me, and many other atheists, agnostics, skeptics, ect., I believe in life, my life, here, now, as it exists. I live my life to the fullest I can while being, at all times, aware that this is the only life I get to live. There's no retake, no do over. So I have to live to be the absolute best person I am capable of and in the end have only myself to answer to. Let me tell you, right now, I'm a lot harder on myself than any god floating in space could ever be.