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You might also ask the dealer to re-install the original components they replaced when you PURCHASED LANDROVER ACCESSORIES (not FROM a third party), since JLR clearly does not back the accessories they offer and will ONLY back what was shipped from the factory. For if this second engine fails, you do not want to be insulted a second time when JLR again refuses to support their accessories which were installed by their dealer.
I figure they did not retain the parts from the original accessory installation, as I expect they also thought JLR would back the accessories they offered.
If you do not mind letting us know, which dealer is this?
Crap! I hate when my hubris comes back to haunt me. @Varalith - I would still push the playbook. But I checked TOPIx and the reality is that they DO lift out the L663 engines without pulling out the front. The problem is with the size of their engine lift. If they have a lift as small as this one (about the size I had), they may not have enough of a lever to reach into the bay. If they don't have a jib crane or lift in the beams of their shops, they have a problem. But the cost of doing a winch/bar install is usually thousands of dollars. WELL before they do that, they could more cheaply just rent a commercial truck crane for a few hundred and pull it straight up.
This is where you need a Redneck engineer! I would push it out of the bay, rig something above it and winch it straight up. I'll post a pic of my Rube Goldberg contraption to pull an engine straight up. Unfortunately it would make an OSHA officer faint and they wouldn't touch it. But the point is, push it out of the bay and rent something to lift it if their cheap-arsed lift won't reach over it.
Remember: this post is your Plan B, just yell at them about the diminished value claim per above as Plan A.
As I noted above, this is Century Automotive in Huntsville, AL. They have been very good to me so far, but this particular issue has gotten me regretting the overall purchase and questioning if I even want to keep the vehicle. As another (we'll call it Plan C) I had considered just telling them to keep the vehicle and pay me out the private party value plus the accessories values (which is not insignificant as I've replaced wheels / tires, added lift rods, rock sliders). I love everything about the Defender but as of this moment I've been toying with the idea of getting something cheaper and buying a side by side for my weekend activities. Ultimately, in regard to special activities besides off-roading, I'm only using the Defender to tow my boat out of the water for annual maintenance and I could have the dealer pick the boat up for that.
I appreciate all of the input on the issue. I did have an incident when I first had the ladder and skid plate installed where they did not provide appropriate figures for installation and my discomfort (not even anger or being upset, but obvious physical discomfort) at the fact that the installation was much higher than folks had quote on here, caused them to waive the installation fees altogether. So that being said I do think I'll wait until they provide me the number. I have a feeling I'm not going to hear from them until it's ready and find out the service advisor got it waived. As I had said in the original post, this dealer has been pretty good to deal with other than the skid plate / ladder install charge issue I just noted and even then they made things right.
In regard to the labor rate, whether this is true or not, the dealer did tell me that they're only receiving $18 / hr for the engine replacement at I believe 24 hours or something around that, so if that's true it sounded like JLR was cheaping out on them as well. This does make me even more uncomfortable with keeping the vehicle considering that if JLR is in that type of financial straights I'm not sure I want a vehicle with no dealer network or manufacturer support - which would be another argument to make I suppose.
My uncle had a 96 NA Defender and I believe a 96 or 98 Range Rover and I always loved both vehicles and the heritage behind them. It was exciting to think I could enjoy that heritage without overpaying AND have a capable vehicle I could daily drive comfortably. This is the only vehicle I had to test drive more than once and the only one I've fallen in love with this much, but honestly folks, this whole thing is building up to be a big pain in the *** and I'm a bit gun shy right now.
@Varalith You sound like you are handling it much more calmly, maturely, and pleasantly than I would! All are good attributes & kudos to you. Most consumer vehicles get worked on according to standard repair labor times. Mitchel drives a lot of this. What that means is that JLR sets a "standard" duration for different repairs and repair tasks. Then they pay against that. So, not only does JLR set the warranty rate, but they are also setting the warranty hours for certain activities. If you are a Level 4 Service Tech with years of experience, you are likely to meet or exceed those numbers. However, OFTEN the technician doesn't come close to the number of hours that they allow. That coupled with a warranty rate lower than the Dealer's retail service rate could make them "feel" like they are getting minimum wage. But I've never met the Dealer that didn't run their financials where Warranty work (and the parts mark up) brought in a significant portion of their profitability. Executive summary: he's showing my level of bombast!<g> Likely they are netting $18/hr rather than their normal 35-50%.
Sounds like you have it well thought out & considered. Good luck!
Call me foolish and uninformed but anything stock off the showroom floor, virtually anything, motorcycles, cars etc I doubt will last as long as expected if you practically live off-road with it. It would be like in the 80s if you went out and bought a motocross bike for 2k and put it up alongside a works bike at a world GP event in Europe, the showroom bike resembles the 100k 'works' bike and can go wherever the works bike goes (up to a point) and that's about it. One 30 minute moto with one of these guys riding a stock bike and it would be a throwaway piece after 30 minutes, that is if the rider even survived riding on the cheap stock suspension. I look at my Defender in a somewhat similar light, it has the offroad capability if and when I need it from time to time, but I wouldn't expect it to hold up to constant off-roading for 100k miles. If JLR needs this to hold up to that volume of off-roading they would IMO have to overbuild it to the point where it would be so expensive to get through the warranty period almost nobody could afford one. Maybe they need a competition model for some folks. I wish you luck with the replacement engine but tbh I don't have a good feeling about it.
I do agree with you, there's likely going to be more wear and tear. That being said I've religiously changed the oil every 5k miles to account for that, plus my overall driving actually looks like this:
Daily - 193 miles round trip to and from the airport once a week
Weekends (Fall / Winter / Spring) - One off-road trip a weekend, about 15 minutes of rock climbing
Weekends (Summer) - Daily driving routine, maybe one or two off-road instances over the season
Crap! I hate when my hubris comes back to haunt me. @Varalith - I would still push the playbook. But I checked TOPIx and the reality is that they DO lift out the L663 engines without pulling out the front. The problem is with the size of their engine lift. If they have a lift as small as this one (about the size I had), they may not have enough of a lever to reach into the bay. If they don't have a jib crane or lift in the beams of their shops, they have a problem. But the cost of doing a winch/bar install is usually thousands of dollars. WELL before they do that, they could more cheaply just rent a commercial truck crane for a few hundred and pull it straight up.
This is where you need a Redneck engineer! I would push it out of the bay, rig something above it and winch it straight up. I'll post a pic of my Rube Goldberg contraption to pull an engine straight up. Unfortunately it would make an OSHA officer faint and they wouldn't touch it. But the point is, push it out of the bay and rent something to lift it if their cheap-arsed lift won't reach over it.
Remember: this post is your Plan B, just yell at them about the diminished value claim per above as Plan A.
How about pull the winch cable out all the way, rig a ****** block to an overhead beam, run the winch cable through the pulley and back down to the engine lift points, and let the damn truck lift its own engine out. It’d be like performing open heart surgery on yourself.
How about pull the winch cable out all the way, rig a ****** block to an overhead beam, run the winch cable through the pulley and back down to the engine lift points, and let the damn truck lift its own engine out. It’d be like performing open heart surgery on yourself.
Are there awards that can be given out around here?
Last edited by _Allegedly; 09-23-2021 at 07:30 PM.
09-22-2021, 01:01 PM
