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Could have been worse. This is the engine off my Cessna Caravan. Freshly overhauled, $240K, wouldn't want to start. Turned out, they left this small plastic part in the hot section as well. Ruined a brand new set of single crystal compressor turbine blades@ $475 ea 52 of them. Luckily, they came and pulled the engine, replaced the blades, re-hung the engine and rigged it. They totally covered the costs, provided I never say which overhaul company did it. I'm fine with that, I just rib him every time I see him at the NBAA.
Reading this post and it’s references to oil changes and warranty claims and the like, it brings to mind a question for those like myself who do their own oil changes and basic service. You mention records/receipt keeping. Is that sufficient for providing proof to the dealer in the event of a warranty claim? If I change my own oil and filter, engine air filter, cabin filter, brake fluid or pads/rotors and keep all receipts and invoices with dates, will I have no worries should I require a visit to the dealer?
I'm not providing any legal advice but you have to understand the full scope of the warranty before making a claim against said warranty. Meaning, what failed to make such claim? You changing your own oil has nothing to do with the headlights completely failing. Assuming the warranty doesn't state, oil changes must be performed by the dealer (I wouldn't think so), then depending on the claim, you might be ok. Hopefully that makes some sense.
Originally Posted by Dogpilot
I'm fine with that, I just rib him every time I see him at the NBAA.
People travel in things other than ACJs? Wow [sarcasm]. Hopefully you stopped by our booth at NBAA! 😉
Last edited by EasternShoreDefender; 11-10-2022 at 11:40 PM.
Not to be one to encourage aircraft ownership, mine are part of what I do for a living. So financially they cost me nothing due to tax rules and depreciation. Then unlike cars and boats, they actually go up in price, particularly ones used in commercial operations. So unless you get some kind of doctor/lawyer killer, when you sell, you make money. Then there is maintenance, I actually hold my ratings to allow me to do my own maintenance. Personally, if I couldn't work on them, I wouldn't own one. While in the military, I ended up in the engineering side of things and I test flew aircraft. I had an uncountable number of emergencies, 5 complete engine failures, glide to land and three crash landings where they picked up the plane with a crane to eventually rebuild. I am touchy about maintenance, since errors were the root cause of my emergencies, fires, explosions and so on. Dumb job you do when you're young, especially considering we essentially got minimum wage, even as officers, to fly the multimillion dollar whistling ****cans. While it sounds like they were total POS's, it was our job to find the defects, which we did. On the plus side, there is not a helicopter or airplane I cannot fly and they paid for a very expensive and specialized post graduate education. Which turned out to be very profitable, provided you lived.
Warranties on everything from blenders to cars can be tricky to get either the work done to correct the defects. It would seem the general attitude is to deny, delay every count. You frequently have to jump up and down to get it rectified. The attitude, kind of a business school thing, is to be like insurance companies. They just collect money, rarely pay it out if they can avoid it. Personally I have engaged in a lawsuit to get warranty for poor workmanship. Three years of my time plus a wagonload and a half of legal fees to collect only 12% more than the lawyers got. I suppose that is why the mafia style protection remains in business. Most likely a better outcome for the dollar spent.
Not to be one to encourage aircraft ownership, mine are part of what I do for a living. So financially they cost me nothing due to tax rules and depreciation. Then unlike cars and boats, they actually go up in price, particularly ones used in commercial operations. So unless you get some kind of doctor/lawyer killer, when you sell, you make money. Then there is maintenance, I actually hold my ratings to allow me to do my own maintenance. Personally, if I couldn't work on them, I wouldn't own one. While in the military, I ended up in the engineering side of things and I test flew aircraft. I had an uncountable number of emergencies, 5 complete engine failures, glide to land and three crash landings where they picked up the plane with a crane to eventually rebuild. I am touchy about maintenance, since errors were the root cause of my emergencies, fires, explosions and so on. Dumb job you do when you're young, especially considering we essentially got minimum wage, even as officers, to fly the multimillion dollar whistling ****cans. While it sounds like they were total POS's, it was our job to find the defects, which we did. On the plus side, there is not a helicopter or airplane I cannot fly and they paid for a very expensive and specialized post graduate education. Which turned out to be very profitable, provided you lived.
Warranties on everything from blenders to cars can be tricky to get either the work done to correct the defects. It would seem the general attitude is to deny, delay every count. You frequently have to jump up and down to get it rectified. The attitude, kind of a business school thing, is to be like insurance companies. They just collect money, rarely pay it out if they can avoid it. Personally I have engaged in a lawsuit to get warranty for poor workmanship. Three years of my time plus a wagonload and a half of legal fees to collect only 12% more than the lawyers got. I suppose that is why the mafia style protection remains in business. Most likely a better outcome for the dollar spent.
Former aircraft owner, current professional pilot. I enjoyed my plane, but the maintenance/insurance/storage costs vs. how much I actually flew my plane made selling an easy decision. I'd rather come back from a trip and not see the inside of another airplane until I have to go back to work again
You changing your own oil has nothing to do with the headlights completely failing. Assuming the warranty doesn't state, oil changes must be performed by the dealer (I wouldn't think so), then depending on the claim, you might be ok. Hopefully that makes some sense.
I'm not a lawyer, I bagged that track in life after a few years as a paralegal and returned to my roots in the aftermarket tech industry where I've been for decades.
So though I'm not 100% on the details I'm under the impression that in the US the Magnuson Moss federal warranty act provides significant consumer protection and is the very basis for much of the automotive aftermarket.
IIRC an OEM cannot require the customer to use their specific fluids unless they are provided for free or finding to that extent.
As far as I can tell JLR might be playing a bit of a game walking the line on that in the US. As when I tried last year to buy the specific oil they supposedly are using in our Defenders I was meet with road blocks. None of the EU retailers at the time would ship it up the US. And my local dealer claimed to only get it in barrels and wouldn't sell it to me.
Rather than bother to fight this fight I did something I've not done in my life, EVER and allowed the dealer to change the oil. I'm sure that's the corporate end game but I've not the desire to fight this one. I've got a fleet to maintain and if momma wants this vehicle (and she does, she loves it, like her Ducati), then momma can pay the exorbitant dealer fees for service (for another year or two, then I'll take over and use Liqui Moly or the like and not worry about it).
That said, push comes to shove I would think JLR wouldn't have a strong argument if a US owner used something of the correct viscosity on anywhere near a reasonable change schedule. But who knows.
I totally get where you are coming from. I made a decision to never fly line a long time ago, ruins any joy you may get from flying. Maintenance is a no-cost to me thing because I actually like working on the plane, not exactly normal for most owners. Insurance, I am so far ahead on insurance, I'll be dead long before they come out on the positive side of things. A hurricane and three of my leased out birds early demise made that possible. As for storage, well my hanger, aside from being where I keep and maintain the airplane, is the cheapest storage option for my prodigious amount of bulky stuff and optional vehicles. I am not in the normal owners category. Having a floatplane makes getting around in Canada the best option for me to get to jobs as a geologist up there. It also works super in Mexico as well. Kind of jumping over the parts where the Federalis hit you up for "coffee" money. The biggest issue is coming back to the USA, where everybody flying an airplane is either a terrorist or drug smuggler. I have to restrain myself from hurting myself laughing as they carefully go around my plane with a Geiger counter every time at Nogales. The customs folks take themselves very seriously and have virtually dried up all imported drugs sold on the street in the US.
Sorry, this has nothing to do with the original issue here. Just waiting to go out with my son and get our "free" Veterans Day doughnut at Drunken Doughnuts. Which that and the Home Depot discount are sadly, pretty much my only VA benefits.
11-10-2022, 11:03 PM
