Defender
#31
12-16-2019, 08:42 PM
Super Moderator
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BamaCountry (12-16-2019)
#32
12-17-2019, 09:10 AM
Great photo!
These are all valid points and I think we all share the same passion with the brand and will likely support LR one way or another. Either by maintaining our older fleet and conversations here on the forum, or trying out the new Defender. With that said, I believe my biggest disappointment is with how LR, like Bama said, left behind those who truly wanted to continue the LR pedigree of awesome off road vehicles with style and class. Jeep, which came about before LR, and was the inspiration for LR, has nailed it. And I’m not a Jeep person and never will be. But they saw the writing on the wall and followed it. Because of their decision to do so, they have kept their loyal following and have a large support base of enthusiast. Agree again with Bama on the old Wranglers, they suck on road as a daily driver. However the new JL, and Jeep listened, is a vast improvement over the older ones while maintaining the Jeep feel and capability.
If the new Defender can be a solid truck and be reliable off road, it will be a success. We know by the photos and stats it is going to be comfortable. And like Army said, a truck that can tackle the mud and drive home in comfort. I think the new Defender has these ingredients. BUT, will it be junk? Only time will tell. If it is, I see the end of LR’s attempt at keeping its off road heritage and focusing solely on luxury and style. After the D1, came the D2. And after that the LR3 and LR4. All of these are great vehicles IMO and have been the vehicles along with the Defender keeping the enthusiast happy. But the new D5, again just my opinion, is junk. Thread after thread of problems with a $75k vehicle. This leaves only the new Defender as LR’s saving grace regarding a dedicated off road vehicle. I hope it is a success and I hope I can own one. If not, can I bring my 2021 4Runner to LR events?
These are all valid points and I think we all share the same passion with the brand and will likely support LR one way or another. Either by maintaining our older fleet and conversations here on the forum, or trying out the new Defender. With that said, I believe my biggest disappointment is with how LR, like Bama said, left behind those who truly wanted to continue the LR pedigree of awesome off road vehicles with style and class. Jeep, which came about before LR, and was the inspiration for LR, has nailed it. And I’m not a Jeep person and never will be. But they saw the writing on the wall and followed it. Because of their decision to do so, they have kept their loyal following and have a large support base of enthusiast. Agree again with Bama on the old Wranglers, they suck on road as a daily driver. However the new JL, and Jeep listened, is a vast improvement over the older ones while maintaining the Jeep feel and capability.
If the new Defender can be a solid truck and be reliable off road, it will be a success. We know by the photos and stats it is going to be comfortable. And like Army said, a truck that can tackle the mud and drive home in comfort. I think the new Defender has these ingredients. BUT, will it be junk? Only time will tell. If it is, I see the end of LR’s attempt at keeping its off road heritage and focusing solely on luxury and style. After the D1, came the D2. And after that the LR3 and LR4. All of these are great vehicles IMO and have been the vehicles along with the Defender keeping the enthusiast happy. But the new D5, again just my opinion, is junk. Thread after thread of problems with a $75k vehicle. This leaves only the new Defender as LR’s saving grace regarding a dedicated off road vehicle. I hope it is a success and I hope I can own one. If not, can I bring my 2021 4Runner to LR events?
#33
12-18-2019, 02:25 PM
I probably should restate the earlier point I was trying to make. JLR is focussed on selling new vehicles and if the trend in other countries reflect the US, they sell 2-3x as many Range Rovers as Land Rovers to buyers that never take them offroad. Even the majority of new buyers don't take their Land Rovers offroad. Thus the reason to maintain an offroad pedigree may become less important, though many brands still maintain a halo vehicle to establish the brand image. Hopefully JLR notices that and the Defender becomes that vs the Range Rover line/segment.
Currently the new Defender price point is right up there, it also pretty much a reskinned D5 based on the same platform as the RRS with a few minor upgrades that will help offroad (slightly bigger front balljoints, from I can gather slightly larger tires, and a couple of factory offroad options). The majority of D5 issues seems to be assembly line issues and software rather than a poor platform, so there is hope. A lot of owners are very happy with their D5s, so that is a positive sign as well.
The base Defender goes for $50k, but adding any option balloons the price to $70k+ real quick. The only downside is that it only has the 4cyl turbo gas engine, the 6cyl balloons the price and no diesels in the US (only 4cyl diesel international at this point). I have been tempted by the potential option to get a D90/110 with the 6cyl diesel if it becomes available, but then the price point when adding a few options is a certain deterrent. It will have to serve as my daily and offroad vehicle, which requires a bit more than a pure bare bones vehicle. In the mean time the D5 is my wife's daily and I use it offroad, and it has done very well for us. But I still itch to upgrade my daily from a sedan to something more fun, though 2 newer Rovers in a household will probably bankrupt us
Currently the new Defender price point is right up there, it also pretty much a reskinned D5 based on the same platform as the RRS with a few minor upgrades that will help offroad (slightly bigger front balljoints, from I can gather slightly larger tires, and a couple of factory offroad options). The majority of D5 issues seems to be assembly line issues and software rather than a poor platform, so there is hope. A lot of owners are very happy with their D5s, so that is a positive sign as well.
The base Defender goes for $50k, but adding any option balloons the price to $70k+ real quick. The only downside is that it only has the 4cyl turbo gas engine, the 6cyl balloons the price and no diesels in the US (only 4cyl diesel international at this point). I have been tempted by the potential option to get a D90/110 with the 6cyl diesel if it becomes available, but then the price point when adding a few options is a certain deterrent. It will have to serve as my daily and offroad vehicle, which requires a bit more than a pure bare bones vehicle. In the mean time the D5 is my wife's daily and I use it offroad, and it has done very well for us. But I still itch to upgrade my daily from a sedan to something more fun, though 2 newer Rovers in a household will probably bankrupt us
#34
12-18-2019, 03:29 PM
Drifting
I probably should restate the earlier point I was trying to make. JLR is focussed on selling new vehicles and if the trend in other countries reflect the US, they sell 2-3x as many Range Rovers as Land Rovers to buyers that never take them offroad. Even the majority of new buyers don't take their Land Rovers offroad. Thus the reason to maintain an offroad pedigree may become less important, though many brands still maintain a halo vehicle to establish the brand image. Hopefully JLR notices that and the Defender becomes that vs the Range Rover line/segment.
Currently the new Defender price point is right up there, it also pretty much a reskinned D5 based on the same platform as the RRS with a few minor upgrades that will help offroad (slightly bigger front balljoints, from I can gather slightly larger tires, and a couple of factory offroad options). The majority of D5 issues seems to be assembly line issues and software rather than a poor platform, so there is hope. A lot of owners are very happy with their D5s, so that is a positive sign as well.
The base Defender goes for $50k, but adding any option balloons the price to $70k+ real quick. The only downside is that it only has the 4cyl turbo gas engine, the 6cyl balloons the price and no diesels in the US (only 4cyl diesel international at this point). I have been tempted by the potential option to get a D90/110 with the 6cyl diesel if it becomes available, but then the price point when adding a few options is a certain deterrent. It will have to serve as my daily and offroad vehicle, which requires a bit more than a pure bare bones vehicle. In the mean time the D5 is my wife's daily and I use it offroad, and it has done very well for us. But I still itch to upgrade my daily from a sedan to something more fun, though 2 newer Rovers in a household will probably bankrupt us
Currently the new Defender price point is right up there, it also pretty much a reskinned D5 based on the same platform as the RRS with a few minor upgrades that will help offroad (slightly bigger front balljoints, from I can gather slightly larger tires, and a couple of factory offroad options). The majority of D5 issues seems to be assembly line issues and software rather than a poor platform, so there is hope. A lot of owners are very happy with their D5s, so that is a positive sign as well.
The base Defender goes for $50k, but adding any option balloons the price to $70k+ real quick. The only downside is that it only has the 4cyl turbo gas engine, the 6cyl balloons the price and no diesels in the US (only 4cyl diesel international at this point). I have been tempted by the potential option to get a D90/110 with the 6cyl diesel if it becomes available, but then the price point when adding a few options is a certain deterrent. It will have to serve as my daily and offroad vehicle, which requires a bit more than a pure bare bones vehicle. In the mean time the D5 is my wife's daily and I use it offroad, and it has done very well for us. But I still itch to upgrade my daily from a sedan to something more fun, though 2 newer Rovers in a household will probably bankrupt us
Take your household for example. Your wife likely doesn’t desire to go off-road without you driving, but when you drive the car, you can; that’s the entire point of LR/RR. Otherwise, most people buy an X5 or the Merc. Those who buy LR/RR are those who respect and want the capability, otherwise, why bother? The company will not risk these buyers. Rugged is a thing and a style choice for many. RR buyers are also very wealthy, so the purchase is deliberate because they have limitless choices, but also want the limitless car.
LR will not water down these SUVs much more than required to keep up with market and keep off-road chops. Even the Evoque is fun off-road and I understand that even the Velar is also when equipped with proper rubber. Trust that most owners of each will never get the things dirty, but LR beefed them up anyway.
For the Defender, there is no way in hell they would risk not making the car from the factory do most of what Army mentioned so accurately in his earlier post. Off-road beast that can wear a suit; perfect!
Now that JLR has purchased Bowler, if you have any doubts about the commitment to the Defender being a modern day beast, you’re about to eat some words. the James Bond show off fest wasn’t random either. They knew that old school guys would be doubters, so they’re getting out in front of the chatter. Coach Saban calls it “rat poison”.
Yes, the Defender will get pricey. Honestly, when adjusted for inflation it always was really as it is a blue blood brand. There are cheaper options, but those are cheap options. No way would I pay $52K for a 4 Runner with 10 yr old engineering and a lousy 5 speed tranny; Toyota isn’t even trying anymore as they try to decide on a new direction for the company.
I will be giving back the keys to my 2018 5 series sedan for a rugged Defender that I always admired and wanted. I want it rugged and refined and willing to pay a little bit of a premium to have an off-road car with a touch of class. Assure you that I will not be alone by a long shot.
#35
12-18-2019, 09:04 PM
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BamaCountry (12-18-2019)
#36
12-20-2019, 04:33 PM
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Wheeled with a LR4 a couple times, believe it was the HD package with locking rear diff, and he went everywhere the Dl/ Dll's went. He had A/T tires and stock otherwise. The indepenent air suspension worked well.
l would hope this new Defender would be as capable as a LR4...if so...l see no problem. Yes, it's a whole new animal, but whatever. My only gripe is...the headlights...to "jeepish" to me. But, l would think aftermarket headlights will fix this.
Brian.
l would hope this new Defender would be as capable as a LR4...if so...l see no problem. Yes, it's a whole new animal, but whatever. My only gripe is...the headlights...to "jeepish" to me. But, l would think aftermarket headlights will fix this.
Brian.
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BamaCountry (12-20-2019)
#37
12-20-2019, 05:55 PM
Super Moderator
#38
01-04-2020, 06:47 PM
Drifting
Happy New Year folks!
The configurator for the Defender 90 First Edition is now live on the LR website. Only engine choice is the more potent 6er, so it gets pricey fast. Winch is an over $3K option, but really isn’t that bad since it seems to be a very good unit. All of the packs are there and the breadth of front end protection options are fun to play around with.
Expect a proper build to be somewhere around $75K for most of the off-road goodies you’d want and the integrated air compressor which may be the most important option for off road.
I am not looking to get the first edition, but it does have most of my target build. Only tire option are 20’s which I’d rather avoid.
Please share thoughts once you’ve given it a go.
The configurator for the Defender 90 First Edition is now live on the LR website. Only engine choice is the more potent 6er, so it gets pricey fast. Winch is an over $3K option, but really isn’t that bad since it seems to be a very good unit. All of the packs are there and the breadth of front end protection options are fun to play around with.
Expect a proper build to be somewhere around $75K for most of the off-road goodies you’d want and the integrated air compressor which may be the most important option for off road.
I am not looking to get the first edition, but it does have most of my target build. Only tire option are 20’s which I’d rather avoid.
Please share thoughts once you’ve given it a go.
#40
01-27-2020, 08:57 PM
Have been considering for some time a replacement for my 05 LR3 with locking rear which I purchased new. Interested in the new Defender but when I spec it out it hits well over 70 thousand. I could leave off some of the comfort options and get the price down a little maybe. Wish the base motor was the V6. Don't think I want the 4 cylinder, turbo charged or not. The 20 inch wheels are a no go also. Was hoping LR would, at a minimum, make it semi after market friendly but does not look like it. I think it will be mostly a mall crawler due to it being so pricey when optioned out especially after choosing the V6 version. LR's price point is pretty high for the Defender to be seen on the trails beside the Wrangler very much IMO. I'm going to keep my LR3 for now and patiently check everything out in the coming months. I think the capable 4x4 market will be interesting in 2020 and 2021.