I don’t get it.
Thread Starter
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Overlanding
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 21
Likes: 24
Again, to each their own, but I don’t see the practicality in buying the hot-rodded version of an otherwise capable and fairly fuel efficient SUV. The V8 will feel nose-heavy for even light off-roading, and while they claim 15 city/19 highway, I’m sorry, there’s just no way. There are physics to consider… a truck shaped like a brick with a V8 is getting 10/15 or I’ll eat my hat.
I do get the uniqueness factor, and if that’s important enough to justify the added cost and performance deficits (with the exception of straight line acceleration) then the V8 is certainly a contender. Otherwise, have you considered a 4 cylinder and a well-kept 997? Last of the “dangerous” 911s before they became larger computer-aided grand tourers. Both might come out around the same money as a V8… get your practicality as well as a better go-fast fix…
I do get the uniqueness factor, and if that’s important enough to justify the added cost and performance deficits (with the exception of straight line acceleration) then the V8 is certainly a contender. Otherwise, have you considered a 4 cylinder and a well-kept 997? Last of the “dangerous” 911s before they became larger computer-aided grand tourers. Both might come out around the same money as a V8… get your practicality as well as a better go-fast fix…
Pro Wrench
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,558
Likes: 1,439
From 5:45 to around 10:45, it's explained.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 39
Likes: 15
Again, to each their own, but I don’t see the practicality in buying the hot-rodded version of an otherwise capable and fairly fuel efficient SUV. The V8 will feel nose-heavy for even light off-roading, and while they claim 15 city/19 highway, I’m sorry, there’s just no way. There are physics to consider… a truck shaped like a brick with a V8 is getting 10/15 or I’ll eat my hat.
I do get the uniqueness factor, and if that’s important enough to justify the added cost and performance deficits (with the exception of straight line acceleration) then the V8 is certainly a contender. Otherwise, have you considered a 4 cylinder and a well-kept 997? Last of the “dangerous” 911s before they became larger computer-aided grand tourers. Both might come out around the same money as a V8… get your practicality as well as a better go-fast fix…
I do get the uniqueness factor, and if that’s important enough to justify the added cost and performance deficits (with the exception of straight line acceleration) then the V8 is certainly a contender. Otherwise, have you considered a 4 cylinder and a well-kept 997? Last of the “dangerous” 911s before they became larger computer-aided grand tourers. Both might come out around the same money as a V8… get your practicality as well as a better go-fast fix…
I also have a GT4 that is for pure driving fun (so I appreciate the 997 suggestion
). But a 8 cylinder defender is historically significant as the first defender had a V8. Some may also say why not wait for the Defender SVR? All rumors indicate this will be a turbocharged V8. Again going back to my love of “character”, the supercharged V8 is as close to purity as we can get to N/A. Despite having a very close 0-60 as the V6 or PHEV. I am not after performance numbers, just the experience.
Who knows, I may go back to a V6 in the end due to its substantially lower cost and the ability to “beat” on something that does not cost over $100K
You've fallen into the automotive world equivalent of looking at a pretty girl and assuming she isn't smart.
From 5:45 to around 10:45, it's explained.
https://youtu.be/M7KZD0cDeJM
From 5:45 to around 10:45, it's explained.
https://youtu.be/M7KZD0cDeJM
Three Wheeling
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 96
Likes: 73
From: Flower Mound, Texas
You bring up many great points. But as pointed out below, I do think it has off-road capabilities. Granted, I am not doing extreme off-roading. The 6 cylinder is also an option for me, but the character of the 8 cylinder is certainly appealing. The problem with wanting a vehicle that does it all, is inherently there will be compromises.
I also have a GT4 that is for pure driving fun (so I appreciate the 997 suggestion). But a 8 cylinder defender is historically significant as the first defender had a V8.
Some may also say why not wait for the Defender SVR? All rumors indicate this will be a turbocharged V8. Again going back to my love of “character”, the supercharged V8 is as close to purity as we can get to N/A. Despite having a very close 0-60 as the V6 or PHEV. I am not after performance numbers, just the experience.
Who knows, I may go back to a V6 in the end due to its substantially lower cost and the ability to “beat” on something that does not cost over $100K
I also have a GT4 that is for pure driving fun (so I appreciate the 997 suggestion
). But a 8 cylinder defender is historically significant as the first defender had a V8.Some may also say why not wait for the Defender SVR? All rumors indicate this will be a turbocharged V8. Again going back to my love of “character”, the supercharged V8 is as close to purity as we can get to N/A. Despite having a very close 0-60 as the V6 or PHEV. I am not after performance numbers, just the experience.
Who knows, I may go back to a V6 in the end due to its substantially lower cost and the ability to “beat” on something that does not cost over $100K
Three Wheeling
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 65
Likes: 30
You've fallen into the automotive world equivalent of looking at a pretty girl and assuming she isn't smart.
From 5:45 to around 10:45, it's explained.
https://youtu.be/M7KZD0cDeJM
From 5:45 to around 10:45, it's explained.
https://youtu.be/M7KZD0cDeJM
These guys are fine engineers. And the new Defender, at it’s core, is a capable vehicle. But it was designed by people with obviously no understanding of real-world off-roading nor how to prep a truck for such. This is what comes from the last couple of decades of Land Rover being in the mall-hauler business and not in say, Jeep or Toyota or Ford’s world. Speaking of those three, did you see the shoot-out where the defender was disqualified because it’s 20” rims and low profile tires caught and puncture-flatted, twice, almost immediately? The new Defender should have mopped the floor with the Bronco, it’s engineering and electronics are light years better. But the dopes who built it don’t know that sometimes you need 35”s. Or Jesus, even 33”s. I mean, come on.
In any event, I wouldn’t take a word that the current crop of Land Rover engineers say about real-world, practical off-roading as gospel. They know their theoreticals, and it shows in the electronics. But as for the rest, they are clearly novices. My hope is that the new Defender will be successful enough that LR will begin to get into serious (Or even unserious) off-roading again, and the current engineers will begin to learn the basics and apply that knowledge, and perhaps a few dedicated off-road engineers might even be poached from Toyota, Jeep, et al. If that happens, the refresh on the Defender will be a goddamn monster. Here’s hoping.
Long winded way of saying that the guy in the video doesn’t know his *** from his elbow. The V8 will absolutely drive nose heavy. And if you are in a situation where you need that much power to get a truck that weight out of a jam, then the truck is only there because you don’t know how to drive. I mean what are we talking about here? A vertical pull-up because you dropped the *** off a crevasse? Come on. The 4-banger is more than enough for the most challenging trails in the world. The V6 is overkill. And the V8 is cartoonish.
Rock Crawling
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 361
Likes: 192
No one that buys a V8 really cares about off roading. It's for bragging rights and hooning around, not worrying about pot holes, snow and the rest of the crap you encounter on the roads these days.
Land Rover knew exactly what they were doing and their target market 10x better than anyone in this thread. There's no point to trying to understand if you aren't it.
Land Rover knew exactly what they were doing and their target market 10x better than anyone in this thread. There's no point to trying to understand if you aren't it.
Pro Wrench
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,558
Likes: 1,439
Bear in mind that these are the same guys who think 22” rims with slivers of rubber are a good idea, see no issue with a well design that makes larger tires impossible, and have made practical (and in many cases necessary) bolt-on accessories, like bumpers, impossible to achieve. Not to mention the plethora of other minor things (mud flap attachment, tow hook installment, winch options, etc etc etc) that they got wildly, comedically wrong.
These guys are fine engineers. And the new Defender, at it’s core, is a capable vehicle. But it was designed by people with obviously no understanding of real-world off-roading nor how to prep a truck for such. This is what comes from the last couple of decades of Land Rover being in the mall-hauler business and not in say, Jeep or Toyota or Ford’s world. Speaking of those three, did you see the shoot-out where the defender was disqualified because it’s 20” rims and low profile tires caught and puncture-flatted, twice, almost immediately? The new Defender should have mopped the floor with the Bronco, it’s engineering and electronics are light years better. But the dopes who built it don’t know that sometimes you need 35”s. Or Jesus, even 33”s. I mean, come on.
In any event, I wouldn’t take a word that the current crop of Land Rover engineers say about real-world, practical off-roading as gospel. They know their theoreticals, and it shows in the electronics. But as for the rest, they are clearly novices. My hope is that the new Defender will be successful enough that LR will begin to get into serious (Or even unserious) off-roading again, and the current engineers will begin to learn the basics and apply that knowledge, and perhaps a few dedicated off-road engineers might even be poached from Toyota, Jeep, et al. If that happens, the refresh on the Defender will be a goddamn monster. Here’s hoping.
Long winded way of saying that the guy in the video doesn’t know his *** from his elbow. The V8 will absolutely drive nose heavy. And if you are in a situation where you need that much power to get a truck that weight out of a jam, then the truck is only there because you don’t know how to drive. I mean what are we talking about here? A vertical pull-up because you dropped the *** off a crevasse? Come on. The 4-banger is more than enough for the most challenging trails in the world. The V6 is overkill. And the V8 is cartoonish.
These guys are fine engineers. And the new Defender, at it’s core, is a capable vehicle. But it was designed by people with obviously no understanding of real-world off-roading nor how to prep a truck for such. This is what comes from the last couple of decades of Land Rover being in the mall-hauler business and not in say, Jeep or Toyota or Ford’s world. Speaking of those three, did you see the shoot-out where the defender was disqualified because it’s 20” rims and low profile tires caught and puncture-flatted, twice, almost immediately? The new Defender should have mopped the floor with the Bronco, it’s engineering and electronics are light years better. But the dopes who built it don’t know that sometimes you need 35”s. Or Jesus, even 33”s. I mean, come on.
In any event, I wouldn’t take a word that the current crop of Land Rover engineers say about real-world, practical off-roading as gospel. They know their theoreticals, and it shows in the electronics. But as for the rest, they are clearly novices. My hope is that the new Defender will be successful enough that LR will begin to get into serious (Or even unserious) off-roading again, and the current engineers will begin to learn the basics and apply that knowledge, and perhaps a few dedicated off-road engineers might even be poached from Toyota, Jeep, et al. If that happens, the refresh on the Defender will be a goddamn monster. Here’s hoping.
Long winded way of saying that the guy in the video doesn’t know his *** from his elbow. The V8 will absolutely drive nose heavy. And if you are in a situation where you need that much power to get a truck that weight out of a jam, then the truck is only there because you don’t know how to drive. I mean what are we talking about here? A vertical pull-up because you dropped the *** off a crevasse? Come on. The 4-banger is more than enough for the most challenging trails in the world. The V6 is overkill. And the V8 is cartoonish.
Pro Wrench
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 1,338
Likes: 1,440
From: Atlanta, GA
Bear in mind that these are the same guys who think 22” rims with slivers of rubber are a good idea, see no issue with a well design that makes larger tires impossible, and have made practical (and in many cases necessary) bolt-on accessories, like bumpers, impossible to achieve. Not to mention the plethora of other minor things (mud flap attachment, tow hook installment, winch options, etc etc etc) that they got wildly, comedically wrong.
These guys are fine engineers. And the new Defender, at it’s core, is a capable vehicle. But it was designed by people with obviously no understanding of real-world off-roading nor how to prep a truck for such. This is what comes from the last couple of decades of Land Rover being in the mall-hauler business and not in say, Jeep or Toyota or Ford’s world. Speaking of those three, did you see the shoot-out where the defender was disqualified because it’s 20” rims and low profile tires caught and puncture-flatted, twice, almost immediately? The new Defender should have mopped the floor with the Bronco, it’s engineering and electronics are light years better. But the dopes who built it don’t know that sometimes you need 35”s. Or Jesus, even 33”s. I mean, come on.
In any event, I wouldn’t take a word that the current crop of Land Rover engineers say about real-world, practical off-roading as gospel. They know their theoreticals, and it shows in the electronics. But as for the rest, they are clearly novices. My hope is that the new Defender will be successful enough that LR will begin to get into serious (Or even unserious) off-roading again, and the current engineers will begin to learn the basics and apply that knowledge, and perhaps a few dedicated off-road engineers might even be poached from Toyota, Jeep, et al. If that happens, the refresh on the Defender will be a goddamn monster. Here’s hoping.
Long winded way of saying that the guy in the video doesn’t know his *** from his elbow. The V8 will absolutely drive nose heavy. And if you are in a situation where you need that much power to get a truck that weight out of a jam, then the truck is only there because you don’t know how to drive. I mean what are we talking about here? A vertical pull-up because you dropped the *** off a crevasse? Come on. The 4-banger is more than enough for the most challenging trails in the world. The V6 is overkill. And the V8 is cartoonish.
These guys are fine engineers. And the new Defender, at it’s core, is a capable vehicle. But it was designed by people with obviously no understanding of real-world off-roading nor how to prep a truck for such. This is what comes from the last couple of decades of Land Rover being in the mall-hauler business and not in say, Jeep or Toyota or Ford’s world. Speaking of those three, did you see the shoot-out where the defender was disqualified because it’s 20” rims and low profile tires caught and puncture-flatted, twice, almost immediately? The new Defender should have mopped the floor with the Bronco, it’s engineering and electronics are light years better. But the dopes who built it don’t know that sometimes you need 35”s. Or Jesus, even 33”s. I mean, come on.
In any event, I wouldn’t take a word that the current crop of Land Rover engineers say about real-world, practical off-roading as gospel. They know their theoreticals, and it shows in the electronics. But as for the rest, they are clearly novices. My hope is that the new Defender will be successful enough that LR will begin to get into serious (Or even unserious) off-roading again, and the current engineers will begin to learn the basics and apply that knowledge, and perhaps a few dedicated off-road engineers might even be poached from Toyota, Jeep, et al. If that happens, the refresh on the Defender will be a goddamn monster. Here’s hoping.
Long winded way of saying that the guy in the video doesn’t know his *** from his elbow. The V8 will absolutely drive nose heavy. And if you are in a situation where you need that much power to get a truck that weight out of a jam, then the truck is only there because you don’t know how to drive. I mean what are we talking about here? A vertical pull-up because you dropped the *** off a crevasse? Come on. The 4-banger is more than enough for the most challenging trails in the world. The V6 is overkill. And the V8 is cartoonish.
But yeah,, I’ve already torn a front Classic mud flap off and guess what? The side trim comes with it. That is one bone-headed, dumb-***, off-roading-unfriendly design right there. And I’ve already had to order a thousand bucks worth of rear brake calipers to fit 18” wheels, which is the size that comes on the Wrangler Sahara, which is the “mall-cruiser” version of the Jeep. And I’ve got a thousand dollar winch plate — that’s right, a winch plate that costs a cool grand — sitting in my garage waiting for my installation appointment because despite having installed five or so winches on different bumpers (including OEM) of Wranglers, I have zero interest in hacking up the front of the Defender.
The fuel mileage is horrible, about the same as my 2014 V6 Wrangler was before I regeared and put 35s on it, so it’s not like all this smooth “aero” work is resulting in a 25/32 fuel payoff. The damn thing could have been made more modular, with the ability to hang bumpers and winches and rock sliders and mud flaps, fer cryin’ out loud, on it without an act of congress. It could have been made to fit 35” tires on 18” wheels without spending $20,000 hacking up the wheel wells.
Now… [/rantoff] I really like the Defender as a road vehicle, including rough, gravel, and dirt roads. But I haven’t even dared to take it more seriously off-road yet because of the wheel/tire situation, the lack of rock sliders, and the fact I have no winch (which the factory couldn’t deliver when I ordered my Defender.) I’ve got brakes and winch about to go on, 18s coming shortly after that with beefy Ridge Grapplers, and will tackle the stupidly difficult task of adding rock sliders after that. At which point I hope to have a Defender that’s 95+% as good as it presently is on-road but 40% better off-road. But the cost of these mods is going to be substantial. And there’s no reason it has to be. I remember bitching about the $420 cost of Ace Engineering rock sliders (the best there was) for my JK Wrangler, but at least it only took half an hour to bolt them in place.
Recovery Vehicle
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 1,078
Likes: 713
I am most appreciative of all those who are purchasing the Defender and the RR Sport / Discovery for their on-road prowess, zoom-zoom driving fun and visual design style (which multitudes of persons really seem to like), in order to provide a positive return-on-investment for the money spent by JLR over the past 15 years to develop the Defender's 4WD system, its sensors, suspension, directional braking, stiff monocoque chassis, flat torque-curve engine and extremely well-matched transmission.
It is up to the owners who go off-road to evolve their Defender over time to maximize its capability. In future years (at a pleasant pace), I expect my Defender will add functional bumpers (as I damage the OEM plastic), a lifted body and overlanding functionality.
As for the V8 Defender, I suspect I may "need" a V8 130 Defender to replace my V8 powered, heavy-load, road-going, non-pickup truck, LR4 tow vehicle, once the LR4 reaches 200K miles (or maybe I will just rebuild one of the LR4s?). TBD.
Enjoy !
It is up to the owners who go off-road to evolve their Defender over time to maximize its capability. In future years (at a pleasant pace), I expect my Defender will add functional bumpers (as I damage the OEM plastic), a lifted body and overlanding functionality.
As for the V8 Defender, I suspect I may "need" a V8 130 Defender to replace my V8 powered, heavy-load, road-going, non-pickup truck, LR4 tow vehicle, once the LR4 reaches 200K miles (or maybe I will just rebuild one of the LR4s?). TBD.
Enjoy !
Thread Starter
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Overlanding
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 21
Likes: 24
and to be fair, now that you can’t get a G Wagon for under $200k, a Defender at half that price is a great option.
