Discovery I Talk about the Land Rover Discovery Series I within.

97 Disco Finally Started! But then smokes and dies...

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
  #11  
Old 11-26-2011, 12:34 PM
hh65flyer's Avatar
Rock Crawling
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Whitefsh, MT
Posts: 326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Smoke in question was exiting from exhaust right? Of course there will be all kinds of stuff burning off once it fires and comes up to temp especially off the exhaust components. I had a lot of paint burning off a set of headers one time as I broke in a new cam. The smoke from that was blown back by the fan and made it seem like the engine was really smoking (it wasn't). My headers were a nice cherry red during that run...very hot.

I think you should pull your plugs and take a look at their condition...that may tell a lot.

Your torque method is different than mine in that you have actual values. Mine was the 90 deg then another 90. I didn't really like that method as I'm a numbers guy but it makes it easy once you scribe a line of some kind. What was odd in my case was I tried to figure out the lb-ft setting at 90 deg to see if they all 'clicked' at the same point and they didn't. Most were close but some made it to the 90 and subsequent 90 without ever clicking. I just used the 90 deg tightening procedure regardless the lb-ft although it wasn't easy. Sorry, that was sort of OT.
 
  #12  
Old 11-26-2011, 12:37 PM
hh65flyer's Avatar
Rock Crawling
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Whitefsh, MT
Posts: 326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

SavB I think his cylinder heads are different. My LR shop manual has TQ values as he described but it also shows 15 or 16 head bolts. I used the RAVE method (90 deg) as head depicted looked just like mine.
 
  #13  
Old 11-26-2011, 12:52 PM
EricTyrrell's Avatar
Pro Wrench
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,526
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes on 14 Posts
Default

Yes the smoke was clearly coming from the exhaust but got sucked back into the garage by the fan, like you said.

Buzz,

The ARP studs are only lubed on the top-side exposed threaded portion so no lube was near the inner gasket. The 66lb-ft comes from the RAVE section on 14 bolt heads, and is just 14ft-lb less than 80. I'm wondering if I really should have torqued them to 80 lb-ft. 66 seems like a lot though. I'd be really pissed if I go back in and torque them to 80 and damage the threads or the HG leaks again for some other reason. RAVE says HG should be dry so I doubt it's even a good idea to re-torque the heads without replacing the gasket and cleaning the mating surfaces again.
 
  #14  
Old 11-26-2011, 01:04 PM
Savannah Buzz's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Savannah Georgia
Posts: 16,322
Likes: 0
Received 82 Likes on 79 Posts
Default

I'm more confused as well. Photo you posted earlier of gasket shows 10 bolts. Page shows HG for 14 bolt engine, a 3.9. Suffix B used a different thickness gasket. So which block do you have? 3.9 or 4.0?
 
Attached Thumbnails 97 Disco Finally Started! But then smokes and dies...-et-hg-1.jpg  
Attached Files
File Type: pdf
et hg page.pdf (692.3 KB, 59 views)
  #15  
Old 11-26-2011, 01:16 PM
EricTyrrell's Avatar
Pro Wrench
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,526
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes on 14 Posts
Default

Sorry to be confusing Buzz, I just used 66 because it has been suggested that the 80 lb-ft ARP specifies was too high and could damage aluminum threads in block. 66 also seemed like a good torque figure because it was once spec'd for the older 14 bolt 3.9. Maybe ARP is smarter than the prevailing internet wisdom... Or maybe I torque them to 80 lb-ft, damage the threads and/or HG still leaks because of some other unrelated problem...
 
  #16  
Old 11-26-2011, 01:25 PM
EricTyrrell's Avatar
Pro Wrench
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,526
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes on 14 Posts
Default

I have the feeling I'm going to be able to do Rover V8 HG jobs with my eyes closed soon

From right to left, cylinder: 1,3,5,7,2,4,6,8

 
  #17  
Old 11-26-2011, 01:51 PM
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pittsburgh PA suburbs.
Posts: 5,584
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes on 7 Posts
Default

Having never rebuilt an engine before, I do have one question for the group. Could reving it to 2500 and holding it there right away have contibuted to the problem??!??....

I would think, let it idle a bit and work it up slowly. I am reluctant to treat any motor with too many rpm's sitting in park or neutral while my son is the exact opposite. He revs his all the time and revs 1st gear way too high and long in my opinion.
 
  #18  
Old 11-26-2011, 01:54 PM
Savannah Buzz's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Savannah Georgia
Posts: 16,322
Likes: 0
Received 82 Likes on 79 Posts
Default

I'm more confused now, so 66 was selected based on the 3.9, which matches the old sheets from RAVE. They start with 60 newton meters (44 ft pounds), then 66 and 66 foot pounds.

I'm not sure how that translates to 15 newton meters (20 foot pounds) and 90 degrees and 90 degrees (overhaul book for 4.0). The overhaul book doesn't mention ending torque by specific number.
 
  #19  
Old 11-26-2011, 01:55 PM
EricTyrrell's Avatar
Pro Wrench
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,526
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes on 14 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Danny Lee 97 Disco
Having never rebuilt an engine before, i do have one question for the group. Could reving it to 2500 and holding it there right away have contibuted to the problem.

I would think, let it idle a bit and work it up slowly. I am reluctant to treat any motor with too many rpm's sitting in park or neutral while my son is the exact opposite.
Danny I wondered the same thing as soon as it fired up. Wait for it to warm up, but then parts aren't being oiled well. OR hold in at the break-in 2500 immediately, but then it's still cold. I ended up waiting about 10 seconds to listen for obvious signs of no-go, before raising to 2500 for oiling.
 
  #20  
Old 11-26-2011, 01:57 PM
Savannah Buzz's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Savannah Georgia
Posts: 16,322
Likes: 0
Received 82 Likes on 79 Posts
Default

I suspect that the rev up simply made the problem show up sooner, not cause it. What seems to be a question now is could you back off bolts, and re-torque, without removing heads, and/or without buying new gaskets?
 


Quick Reply: 97 Disco Finally Started! But then smokes and dies...



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:19 PM.