New Champion Plugs Today
#21
10-30-2011, 05:05 PM
Seems like whichever premium snake oil you prefer in the gas tank would clean inside of cylinder head and exhaust valves and fuel pump, fuel lines and rail, and injectors. But cleaning the intake side of intake valves - seems like only way something is getting to them is induction cleaning or head job. All those additives in gasoline don't come in contact with the intake side of the intake valve very much. Now in a older carb set up, or the throttle body injection used on some vehicles, sure, a can in the tank will clean more things.
If you use a quality fuel you do not need injector cleaner or any snake oil in the gas tank, just use a quality fuel and it will clean your injectors and intake valves.
#22
10-30-2011, 07:57 PM
Pro Wrench
#24
10-30-2011, 08:30 PM
Super Moderator
I apologize for my short memory. Indeed it is not direct injection, and the majic elixer would only be used to offset gunk left by low quality fuels from previous owner. But Spike is also correct that using premium good quality gas should also do the cleaning for you. In my city, all the gasoline comes in on a big Citgo barge, to the same terminal at the port. They then "blend in" whatever proprietary additives each company wants for their stations. All the tank trucks pick up at this terminal and haul it out. But it is the same base stocks involved.
And the chemistry of the elixers remains the same, what ever is in their MSDS sheets.
And the chemistry of the elixers remains the same, what ever is in their MSDS sheets.
#25
10-30-2011, 09:24 PM
Are gas comes from one of 2 different refineries.
But yes, the mix it in the truck to meet the different retailers specs.
The unbranded gas stations always get the left overs from the truck, so Joe's Crab Shack and Auto Repair might get 1,000 gals of Shell formula this week and 1,500 gal of BP next week and 1,000 gal of plain straight gas the week after that.
My wife used to manage a Marathon and across the street was a no name gas station, she was friends with their manager, they never send the tanker trucks back to the terminal with fuel in them.
The driver calls his dispatcher, "I have 1,200 gal of regular left", dispatch calls local stations and when he finds one who wants it he send the truck on over to be emptied.
With unbranded gas stations you dont know what you are getting, with branded gas stations they have a min standard that must be met and they can loose their franchise if they are audited and found out not to meet that standard.
But yes, the mix it in the truck to meet the different retailers specs.
The unbranded gas stations always get the left overs from the truck, so Joe's Crab Shack and Auto Repair might get 1,000 gals of Shell formula this week and 1,500 gal of BP next week and 1,000 gal of plain straight gas the week after that.
My wife used to manage a Marathon and across the street was a no name gas station, she was friends with their manager, they never send the tanker trucks back to the terminal with fuel in them.
The driver calls his dispatcher, "I have 1,200 gal of regular left", dispatch calls local stations and when he finds one who wants it he send the truck on over to be emptied.
With unbranded gas stations you dont know what you are getting, with branded gas stations they have a min standard that must be met and they can loose their franchise if they are audited and found out not to meet that standard.
#26
10-31-2011, 12:25 AM
Rock Crawling
I'm kind of feeble minded on this... how does Seafoam sucked in through vacuum port into the intake while truck is running make it back up stream against all that air flow through the throttle valve butteryfly and down the corrugated rubber intake tube to the MAF? I thought most of the gunk on the MAF itself was oil from the rag style cone filters or leaky air box (where did that O ring go to?) or bad air filters. Seems like whichever premium snake oil you prefer in the gas tank would clean inside of cylinder head and exhaust valves and fuel pump, fuel lines and rail, and injectors. But cleaning the intake side of intake valves - seems like only way something is getting to them is induction cleaning or head job. All those additives in gasoline don't come in contact with the intake side of the intake valve very much. Now in a older carb set up, or the throttle body injection used on some vehicles, sure, a can in the tank will clean more things.
Now since SeaFoam was "invented" back in the dark ages, like the 1930's, it may well have some impact on cats, but their web site say it does not. It is basically Naptha (moth ***** are a crystal version of that), Isopropyl Alcohol, and very thin "use once" process oil (pale oil). The naptha and the alcohol do the work, the pale oil is basically the transport function.
BG 44 is mostly mineral spirits and what you would call "deodorized kerosene" . Excerpt from MSDS for their CAS number by Shell oil:
Fuel for use in domestic and commercial heating and lighting equipment. Please refer to Ch16 for the registered uses under
This product must not be used in applications other than those recommended in Section 1, without first seeking the advice of the supplier. This product is not to be used as a solvent or cleaning agent; for lighting or brightening fires; as a skin cleanser.
So basically SeaFoam and BG 44 are solvent based cleaners, and people have been using solvents to clean grease and gunk for a long time. How much, and how often, and what happens to the gunk once liquified is always a question. Just like spraying brake cleaner on a grease spot on your engine, the grease will be removed, but where did it go?
BTW, in the real Dark Ages, a fellow could have his neck stretched for promising the King he could turn lead in gold (obviously he did not have an adequate intellectual property and patents attorney).
Now since SeaFoam was "invented" back in the dark ages, like the 1930's, it may well have some impact on cats, but their web site say it does not. It is basically Naptha (moth ***** are a crystal version of that), Isopropyl Alcohol, and very thin "use once" process oil (pale oil). The naptha and the alcohol do the work, the pale oil is basically the transport function.
BG 44 is mostly mineral spirits and what you would call "deodorized kerosene" . Excerpt from MSDS for their CAS number by Shell oil:
Fuel for use in domestic and commercial heating and lighting equipment. Please refer to Ch16 for the registered uses under
This product must not be used in applications other than those recommended in Section 1, without first seeking the advice of the supplier. This product is not to be used as a solvent or cleaning agent; for lighting or brightening fires; as a skin cleanser.
So basically SeaFoam and BG 44 are solvent based cleaners, and people have been using solvents to clean grease and gunk for a long time. How much, and how often, and what happens to the gunk once liquified is always a question. Just like spraying brake cleaner on a grease spot on your engine, the grease will be removed, but where did it go?
BTW, in the real Dark Ages, a fellow could have his neck stretched for promising the King he could turn lead in gold (obviously he did not have an adequate intellectual property and patents attorney).
My mistake I was thinking MAF for some reason. What I meant was TPS. The SeaFoam treatment is big on the S-10 sites we use as well but more often than not you hear of TPS and 02 failure shortly after treatment. I have no definitive proof of whether or not SeaFoam (or any other induction cleaner for that matter) actually works in the manner suggested. I can only imagine it breaks up the loose crap but I cant see it or any other cleaner being a match for hardened carbon deposits. Most people do some sort of cleaner before they give up and bring me the top half of their engine for a professional treatment. When I do valve jobs I typically have to polish the carbon off the backs and faces of the valves as no cleaner I've seen will break it down. The hot tank does the trick on intake manifolds and heads for the most part but I even have to break out the die grinder and porting kit to clean stubborn deposits every now and then.
As far as injectors and stuff go though there is pretty substantial evidence that SeaFoam and alike products do work as advertised when used properly.
#28
10-31-2011, 12:17 PM
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pittsburgh PA suburbs.
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Spike, I have not yet read that. Guess I should. I was actually looking for the Rotella at my local Wally World but they were out so i tried the MaxLife and like the results so I have been using it lately.
As far as the gap. I thought about wear after I finished. I did read the Champion sites pages concerning gap. It ran great at 38. This morning was a little colder and when I first started it up, it did not idle as smoothly as I would have liked. Before it warmed up, it would drop down and almost die at stop signs, after warmup it was fine. I may go ahead and pull them and take a look now and possibly close the gap slightly to see what effect that may have.
As far as the gap. I thought about wear after I finished. I did read the Champion sites pages concerning gap. It ran great at 38. This morning was a little colder and when I first started it up, it did not idle as smoothly as I would have liked. Before it warmed up, it would drop down and almost die at stop signs, after warmup it was fine. I may go ahead and pull them and take a look now and possibly close the gap slightly to see what effect that may have.
Last edited by Danny Lee 97 Disco; 10-31-2011 at 06:29 PM.
#29
10-31-2011, 05:45 PM
Rock Crawling
I'm actually a professional machinist but don't do that sort of thing for a living anymore. I still dabble with stuff but its more of a hobby now. My experience is mainly with high horsepower domestic engines used in drag racing applications. Sort of Apples and Oranges compared to the Rover world I've recently discovered, a lot of the same principles are applied though. Some of my advice may be overkill so don't always pay complete attention to me 
given my old profession I treat every engine like its one of my large cubic inch jewels.
given my old profession I treat every engine like its one of my large cubic inch jewels.
#30
10-31-2011, 06:33 PM
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pittsburgh PA suburbs.
Posts: 5,584
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I'm actually a professional machinist but don't do that sort of thing for a living anymore. I still dabble with stuff but its more of a hobby now. My experience is mainly with high horsepower domestic engines used in drag racing applications. Sort of Apples and Oranges compared to the Rover world I've recently discovered, a lot of the same principles are applied though. Some of my advice may be overkill so don't always pay complete attention to me given my old profession I treat every engine like its one of my large cubic inch jewels.
given my old profession I treat every engine like its one of my large cubic inch jewels.Well you could include doing a fellow members engine stuff every now and then to keep up your hobby. I would like to pick up a spare motor from the local recycler and start prepping it as something to do in my spare time.