White Smoke and Weak Idle
Recovery Vehicle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 4
From: SF Bay Area
Okay..
I finally had good time to review your O2 voltage number.
Bank 1 / O2 1 - Good
Bank 2 / O2 1 - Bad
Bank 1 / O2 2 - Bad
Bank 2 / O2 2 - Good
So you have one upstream and one downstream o2 that has gone bad....or the harness is bad...
When you get a fixed reading, no or bad static signal, it will go into full rich mode, default mode. Which, makes sense when, within minutes, the Disco runs bad. Take care of it now or else your cat will go bad.....
Lets see what happens when they are replaced. It should run pretty good once fixed.
I finally had good time to review your O2 voltage number.
Bank 1 / O2 1 - Good
Bank 2 / O2 1 - Bad
Bank 1 / O2 2 - Bad
Bank 2 / O2 2 - Good
So you have one upstream and one downstream o2 that has gone bad....or the harness is bad...
When you get a fixed reading, no or bad static signal, it will go into full rich mode, default mode. Which, makes sense when, within minutes, the Disco runs bad. Take care of it now or else your cat will go bad.....
Lets see what happens when they are replaced. It should run pretty good once fixed.
Baja
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,584
Likes: 7
From: Pittsburgh PA suburbs.
I have a similar issue where I have a P1316 code and black sooty plugs. The live data on the Actron will show the response time way high on the Bank1 02 sensor, but it is not always bad.
Is response time related to the heater? Anyway I guess my best course of action isto get 2 new 02 sensors. Thanks for the information you provide Eric.
Just think, when you do get thru with this, you should get several years of good service for the money you have put in it. Buy another one at the right price and you can really make out with all the knowledge you have acquired so far. I would just be sure to stick with the same version to decrease the variability from year to year these seem to have in the smaller systems.
After going thru the initial debugging phase, you can get a long life from these. I know I could never afford a new anything anymore unless it is like a scooter or something. But I will look at every 97 DI that comes along just because I already have one and have learned a lot about it over the past 5 years of ownership.
It's a bitch dealing with a screwed up one that you just got your hands on, but when you have grunted your way thru the issues, you can enjoy them for along time to come if you treat it right.
Is response time related to the heater? Anyway I guess my best course of action isto get 2 new 02 sensors. Thanks for the information you provide Eric.
Just think, when you do get thru with this, you should get several years of good service for the money you have put in it. Buy another one at the right price and you can really make out with all the knowledge you have acquired so far. I would just be sure to stick with the same version to decrease the variability from year to year these seem to have in the smaller systems.
After going thru the initial debugging phase, you can get a long life from these. I know I could never afford a new anything anymore unless it is like a scooter or something. But I will look at every 97 DI that comes along just because I already have one and have learned a lot about it over the past 5 years of ownership.
It's a bitch dealing with a screwed up one that you just got your hands on, but when you have grunted your way thru the issues, you can enjoy them for along time to come if you treat it right.
Winching
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 600
Likes: 1
From: northwest
not really... the heater only functions to warm them up initially and burn any water/condensate off of them.
once warmed up it has no bearing on the response time.
once warmed up it has no bearing on the response time.
Thread Starter
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Pro Wrench
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,526
Likes: 18
From: Oregon
Thanks, How did you determine that?
I was just going to replace the front two since they are the ones that seem to matter for fueling etc.
I was just going to replace the front two since they are the ones that seem to matter for fueling etc.
Thread Starter
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Pro Wrench
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,526
Likes: 18
From: Oregon
I have a similar issue where I have a P1316 code and black sooty plugs. The live data on the Actron will show the response time way high on the Bank1 02 sensor, but it is not always bad.
Is response time related to the heater? Anyway I guess my best course of action isto get 2 new 02 sensors. Thanks for the information you provide Eric.
Just think, when you do get thru with this, you should get several years of good service for the money you have put in it. Buy another one at the right price and you can really make out with all the knowledge you have acquired so far. I would just be sure to stick with the same version to decrease the variability from year to year these seem to have in the smaller systems.
After going thru the initial debugging phase, you can get a long life from these. I know I could never afford a new anything anymore unless it is like a scooter or something. But I will look at every 97 DI that comes along just because I already have one and have learned a lot about it over the past 5 years of ownership.
It's a bitch dealing with a screwed up one that you just got your hands on, but when you have grunted your way thru the issues, you can enjoy them for along time to come if you treat it right.
Is response time related to the heater? Anyway I guess my best course of action isto get 2 new 02 sensors. Thanks for the information you provide Eric.
Just think, when you do get thru with this, you should get several years of good service for the money you have put in it. Buy another one at the right price and you can really make out with all the knowledge you have acquired so far. I would just be sure to stick with the same version to decrease the variability from year to year these seem to have in the smaller systems.
After going thru the initial debugging phase, you can get a long life from these. I know I could never afford a new anything anymore unless it is like a scooter or something. But I will look at every 97 DI that comes along just because I already have one and have learned a lot about it over the past 5 years of ownership.
It's a bitch dealing with a screwed up one that you just got your hands on, but when you have grunted your way thru the issues, you can enjoy them for along time to come if you treat it right.
Thread Starter
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Pro Wrench
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,526
Likes: 18
From: Oregon
Look at it this way...
- It is way cheaper than buying a new car
- There is less technology to worry about
- You can fix it yourself
- There is a wealth of information/help to reference
- You have a nice collection tools
- You can possibly work on older LR's as a fall back job...
Thread Starter
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Pro Wrench
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,526
Likes: 18
From: Oregon
ET - the pix I sent awhile back of my cheap scanner shows a lower TPS position, like 9%.
I just went out and cranked mine, watched the el cheapo Actron scanner, and saw this just after cranking (scanner takes a short time to boot up, go thru internal POST, collect data, etc):
TPS - 9.4%
898 RPM (will drop to 700 when warm)
29% Calculated Engine Load
104 F coolant temp
70F Inlet Air Temp (under hood for me, the sensor won't fit inside a cone filter)
30 advance
Your TPS reading is higher, so that may well be a place to start. The TPS is an adaptive sensor, it compensates for mechanical wear of the linkage it is attached to. But as it is a potentiometer, sometimes the resistance track can become dirty or worn in key places from vibration, giving readings that are not smooth across the range of movements. There is also a baseline idle adjustment, but don't go there just yet. The key to making sense of readings is that they need to make sense. If the IAT says it is -40 F, and you can still feel your fingers, might be suspect, etc....
I just went out and cranked mine, watched the el cheapo Actron scanner, and saw this just after cranking (scanner takes a short time to boot up, go thru internal POST, collect data, etc):
TPS - 9.4%
898 RPM (will drop to 700 when warm)
29% Calculated Engine Load
104 F coolant temp
70F Inlet Air Temp (under hood for me, the sensor won't fit inside a cone filter)
30 advance
Your TPS reading is higher, so that may well be a place to start. The TPS is an adaptive sensor, it compensates for mechanical wear of the linkage it is attached to. But as it is a potentiometer, sometimes the resistance track can become dirty or worn in key places from vibration, giving readings that are not smooth across the range of movements. There is also a baseline idle adjustment, but don't go there just yet. The key to making sense of readings is that they need to make sense. If the IAT says it is -40 F, and you can still feel your fingers, might be suspect, etc....
Thread Starter
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Pro Wrench
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,526
Likes: 18
From: Oregon
I may step on a few toes but I'll go ahead and say it, I would not trust that Ultra Gauge to be super accurate and I certainly would not base my assumptions on what an $80 all in one gauge says. Dont get me wrong they are cool and can point you in the right direction but that's about it. Not bashing it, I know a lot of guys here have them and they are great little tools for the money. All I'm saying is there are far more precise ways to measure readings and values that may help narrow your search for the problem.
Sounds to me like something sensor related is pissed off but its hard to say what since you have a fresh motor. Do you have a buddy with commercial diagnostic tool that speaks Rover that could run a scan for you? At least if you have two similar readings from two different tools you'll know the cheap one isnt sending you on a wild goose chase.
Just another bump in the road man, those little bugs are always the biggest pain. Process of elimination though, just hang in there.
Sounds to me like something sensor related is pissed off but its hard to say what since you have a fresh motor. Do you have a buddy with commercial diagnostic tool that speaks Rover that could run a scan for you? At least if you have two similar readings from two different tools you'll know the cheap one isnt sending you on a wild goose chase.
Just another bump in the road man, those little bugs are always the biggest pain. Process of elimination though, just hang in there.
The scanners don't actually measure anything. They just display data measured by the ECU. AFAIK the difference is how much data the scanner can access and display.
Super Moderator
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 16,322
Likes: 88
From: Savannah Georgia
Both sides of this opinion are correct. The lower priced scanners / Ultra Gauge read the data from the OBDII port, and display raw data as the ECU sends it out. A higher priced entry level scaner can suggest what codes mean, but keeping up with every reserved by factories for every model can be an issue. So always check what code number aginst best documentation available (in our case teh RAVE). Much more high dollar scaners can talk the language an protocols of other things in the truck, like tranny, ABS, etc.
You can get reasobale priced programs to run on phone or laptop to capture data and do-the-math. Even wifi.
All of these are based on the data stream from the ECU. If it is not read, it displays as a jumble or not at all. I don't think you would find that of five scanners, three would read one coolant temp and the other two would be 36.9875 degrees off.
We're all reading this forum. But the variation in type of computers, version of software, connection speed, infrastructure, ISP, etc., makes little diference. What counts is the size of the flat screen, and what's between the ears of the viewer.
You can get reasobale priced programs to run on phone or laptop to capture data and do-the-math. Even wifi.
All of these are based on the data stream from the ECU. If it is not read, it displays as a jumble or not at all. I don't think you would find that of five scanners, three would read one coolant temp and the other two would be 36.9875 degrees off.
We're all reading this forum. But the variation in type of computers, version of software, connection speed, infrastructure, ISP, etc., makes little diference. What counts is the size of the flat screen, and what's between the ears of the viewer.