Worth it to setup Disco 1 4x4?
#52
05-17-2011, 10:18 AM
#53
05-17-2011, 10:23 AM
TReK
#54
05-17-2011, 11:18 AM
I bought a late-model Disco 1, V8 auto (I'm in the US) and gave it a try. It has a 1.5" lift and 245 mud tires, otherwise stock LE. I wanted to evaluate it for possibly upgrading it to serious, dedicated off road capability. I'm at the point now where I either invest quite a few thousand to upgrade it or sell it and try something else.
Off road it does ok but overall the vehicle is not that good. I'm comparing it to my late-model GM truck. While the truck is much longer wheelbase, heavier and with less articulation (3/4 ton), the GM has far better build quality, better reliability, literally *double* the brute strength, significantly more ground clearance without being top heavy, and close the the same approach and departure angles (it suffers a little in break-over angle due to the wheelbase).
The Land Rover's best attribute is the short wheelbase. The frame and suspension design is good but the shortness of the wheelbase actually requires the better articulation to handle terrain the relatively stiff truck does simply because it's long. Over twisting gullies, the Land Rover has to articulate with crossed axles whereas the truck just spans it (it helps that the truck has a locker in the rear). The Land Rover has inferior ground clearance but the short wheelbase makes up for this.
The Land Rover's drivetrain is unimpressive. To upgrade, I'm looking at new driveshafts, new carriers, new ring and pinions, lockers, new 24 spline axles, etc. The GM came stock with everythng built to haul 22,500lb GCVWR - from the Allison 5 speed transmission, the transfercase, the driveshafts, the GM 14 bolt, 8 lug wheels etc. The engine is also 340HP and 455ft. lbs of torque. The power itself is useless on the trail but a drivetrain built for that with the same torque multiplication factors is more confidence inspiring than one where I'm reading that I have to upgrade everything.
The build quality on the Land Rover is abysmal. It's no wonder they dropped the name "Discovery" because it's synonymous with "crap" in the market. I pity the fools that paid luxury car prices for these things when they were new. They're respectable offroaders but as a luxury car they're absolute crap. The list of things wrong with mine, both repaired and still broken would fill pages and pages. My GM truck by comparison has thirty-thousand additional miles (140,000) and is near perfect. It's had four minor things break in it's lifetime. You can inspect any detail and it is perfect. On the Land Rover, the more I look, the more I find broken or non-functional. I'm talking about everything from door latches, to switches, lights, sensors, pumps, linkages, hoses, to major items like transmissions, break controllers, steering boxes etc. This isn't a blanket statement about GM quality. I've had 6 or 7 of them over my lifetime and some of them were pretty bad. The truck I have now is the only one that has stayed perfect with so little help.
So the GM truck has some physical limitations in size and weight that I can't overcome by upgrading. That's why I bought the Land Rover. However, now that it's time to decide whether to invest in upgrading the Discovery, I'm a little reluctant. All quality issues aside, it just doesn't seem all that capable by comparison to a truck. I would need both lockers and more articulation to really make it decisive. That's a lot to invest in what is otherwise a crappy station wagon.
What do you think?
Off road it does ok but overall the vehicle is not that good. I'm comparing it to my late-model GM truck. While the truck is much longer wheelbase, heavier and with less articulation (3/4 ton), the GM has far better build quality, better reliability, literally *double* the brute strength, significantly more ground clearance without being top heavy, and close the the same approach and departure angles (it suffers a little in break-over angle due to the wheelbase).
The Land Rover's best attribute is the short wheelbase. The frame and suspension design is good but the shortness of the wheelbase actually requires the better articulation to handle terrain the relatively stiff truck does simply because it's long. Over twisting gullies, the Land Rover has to articulate with crossed axles whereas the truck just spans it (it helps that the truck has a locker in the rear). The Land Rover has inferior ground clearance but the short wheelbase makes up for this.
The Land Rover's drivetrain is unimpressive. To upgrade, I'm looking at new driveshafts, new carriers, new ring and pinions, lockers, new 24 spline axles, etc. The GM came stock with everythng built to haul 22,500lb GCVWR - from the Allison 5 speed transmission, the transfercase, the driveshafts, the GM 14 bolt, 8 lug wheels etc. The engine is also 340HP and 455ft. lbs of torque. The power itself is useless on the trail but a drivetrain built for that with the same torque multiplication factors is more confidence inspiring than one where I'm reading that I have to upgrade everything.
The build quality on the Land Rover is abysmal. It's no wonder they dropped the name "Discovery" because it's synonymous with "crap" in the market. I pity the fools that paid luxury car prices for these things when they were new. They're respectable offroaders but as a luxury car they're absolute crap. The list of things wrong with mine, both repaired and still broken would fill pages and pages. My GM truck by comparison has thirty-thousand additional miles (140,000) and is near perfect. It's had four minor things break in it's lifetime. You can inspect any detail and it is perfect. On the Land Rover, the more I look, the more I find broken or non-functional. I'm talking about everything from door latches, to switches, lights, sensors, pumps, linkages, hoses, to major items like transmissions, break controllers, steering boxes etc. This isn't a blanket statement about GM quality. I've had 6 or 7 of them over my lifetime and some of them were pretty bad. The truck I have now is the only one that has stayed perfect with so little help.
So the GM truck has some physical limitations in size and weight that I can't overcome by upgrading. That's why I bought the Land Rover. However, now that it's time to decide whether to invest in upgrading the Discovery, I'm a little reluctant. All quality issues aside, it just doesn't seem all that capable by comparison to a truck. I would need both lockers and more articulation to really make it decisive. That's a lot to invest in what is otherwise a crappy station wagon.
What do you think?
I had a Chevy Full Size and to say it does better than a Land Rover you are a moron sir. MUDDING IS NOT OFFROADING REALLY...Its hillybilly way of saying yeah i took my truck off road. Go trail ride, go rock climb etc..and tell me if your full size truck is better....man sometimes I just want to slap people
I do say the built quality is better on a Chevy...but comparing land rovers to chevy full size truck in an off road matter is just stupid
#55
05-17-2011, 12:11 PM
Well the only time I get my *** handed to me in my Disco by a full size truck is in super deep mud where OF COARSE lots of Horsepower and 40"+ tires prevail no matter what. ALL the other times on rocky trails, small wooded trails, tight turns etc etc my Disco is like a Mountain Goat and IT GETS COMPLIMENTS every trail run. Stuff like "Man, that little thing just goes doesnt it" and I say "yeah it does, I mean I'm parked right next to you arn't I?". The guys on 35"-42" tires actually end up complimenting the trucks abilitys at the end of the day when at the begginning of the day they were snickering at my 2" lift and 245 75 R16's. I literally sat up top of a hill climb that I walked right up first try with smooth easy throttle and watched 2 fullsize rigs on 35" and 38" tires spinning tires helplessly and having to back down for another try at a different line. I was standing up there with my hands raised as if to say "you gotta be kidding me" and my buddy just looked up and gave me the big OL' bird through his window LOL. Now can you imagine a Disco on 33-35" tires???
Last edited by AKdisco; 05-17-2011 at 12:13 PM.
#56
05-17-2011, 12:25 PM
I already admitted it's pointless until you look at the drivetrain. Have you upgraded your 2 pin carriers yet?
#57
05-17-2011, 12:33 PM
I had a Chevy Full Size and to say it does better than a Land Rover you are a moron sir. MUDDING IS NOT OFFROADING REALLY...Its hillybilly way of saying yeah i took my truck off road. Go trail ride, go rock climb etc..and tell me if your full size truck is better....man sometimes I just want to slap people
I do say the built quality is better on a Chevy...but comparing land rovers to chevy full size truck in an off road matter is just stupid
I do say the built quality is better on a Chevy...but comparing land rovers to chevy full size truck in an off road matter is just stupid
Well, in my initial post I did not compare mudding ability. Didn't I mention approach and departure angles? Break over? Didn't I go on to talk about articulation and suspension travel? Reliability? How does any of that only matter to mudding and not on the trail?
The fact is I drove them both bascially stock on TRAILS with no mud... I mentioned cross axle gullies, steep hills... I also drove over rocks and other obstacles... and I explained why the truck does better. The additional wheelbase spans obstacles that leaves the Rover all twisted up and tweaked over. I also admitted where the Rover is better, in tight twisting sections where the truck simply doesn't fit, and because of the short wheelbase it has a better break over angle.
It's not fair to characterize my comparison as hillbilly mudding. I got straight into things that matter for the trail... angles, ground clearance, reliability, articulation, and traction. If you need to read it again, do so, but don't go off calling me a moron.
#58
05-17-2011, 12:44 PM
It's easy to dismiss my critique as flame baiting or trolling but the fact is, it's a legitimate inquiry. I bought a rover for trails, evaluated it and now I'm looking at dumping about six grand into it. I made an inquiry to other Land Rover owners and if you read 90% of the responses I got a bunch of crap back... stuff like "if you have to ask..." and "go away." I do appreciate the people that took time to explain a little. Honestly, the case of the Land Rover is not as compelling as I thought it would be. Maybe that's why they don't make them anymore. It seems like to really push them over the hump, the owner's got to appreciate the cachet, the looks, the exclusivity or something more esoteric.
I can't believe you guys are so sensitive about Disco and camel trophy jokes or any kind of self deprecation. So Lucas electrics jokes are ok, but the Land Rover itself is holy and only trolls insult it? Lame. I mean come on dude... you guys post the fact that you fixed the frickin head gasket in your signature!
I can't believe you guys are so sensitive about Disco and camel trophy jokes or any kind of self deprecation. So Lucas electrics jokes are ok, but the Land Rover itself is holy and only trolls insult it? Lame. I mean come on dude... you guys post the fact that you fixed the frickin head gasket in your signature!
#59
05-17-2011, 12:59 PM
TReK
The summary of your initial post was :
"I have a Discovery, it's not that great, I like my GM better, should I dump lots of money into my Discovery that I don't really like and isn't that great?"
The simple answers we gave you seems to be pretty simple, honest and straight-forward : "NO, you shouldn't"
BUT, instead of saying "Thank you guys for saving me the trouble," you went on to try and insult Land Rover which as you can see, can tend to get folks here a bit fired up.
So in an attempt to get back on track, what do you want us to tell you? What more do you need to know? How can we help you?
"I have a Discovery, it's not that great, I like my GM better, should I dump lots of money into my Discovery that I don't really like and isn't that great?"
The simple answers we gave you seems to be pretty simple, honest and straight-forward : "NO, you shouldn't"
BUT, instead of saying "Thank you guys for saving me the trouble," you went on to try and insult Land Rover which as you can see, can tend to get folks here a bit fired up.
So in an attempt to get back on track, what do you want us to tell you? What more do you need to know? How can we help you?
#60
05-17-2011, 01:04 PM
Hey Ben, fact is this............Rovers DO have issues and design flaws that we look at and go "WTF were they thinking". Every vehicle has them, some in different areas, some in the same area, and some flaws in areas you dont even notice untill you push a vehicle to its limits. A rover DOES have weak carrier axle design, they do have head gasket issues, they do have sketchy electrical issues. GM also has drawbacks and things to watch out for, so does hummer, so does Ford etc etc. Does your 3/4 ton GM have a stouter drivetrain? Hellz yes it does, it HAS to be able to use the truck as it was designed to do which is to HAUL HEAVY *** trailers, throw heavy as loads in the bed etc etc. Your truck was built to do a certain job. Your comparing a HD work truck to a Rover that was not meant to do any of those tasks. Also, you do not see full size GM's or Fords in any of the REAL 4x4 challenges/events throughout the world. Camel trophy=Rovers/ Outback Challenge=Rovers, jeeps, etc etc. Fact is that although your GM has done you well on a trail or two doesnt mean its designed to do that job. A rover was meant to do that and WHEN you spend any decent amount of time behind the wheel of a rover you WILL COME TO APRECIATE them more, I swear you will. I have wheeled nothing but 1 ton Blazers and Suburbans, Bronco's, and full size GM pick-ups, I even wheeled my 95 1/2 ton IFS Chevy on 34" LTB's. I will post some pics of the trucks as proof that I'm not full of shi*. I JUST did a trail run with all fullsize trucks on 35", 38" and 42" tires and I appreciated my Disco as I watched them have to do 5 point turns to get up the trail, watch them have to FULL THROTTLE up rocky hill climbs(which is hard on their trucks and drivetrain BTW), I mean these guys were bouncing off their rev limiters to go up what I JUST SMOOTHLY drove up. Anyway, you havnt even logged in any serious time behind the wheel of your Disco yet to even form a good opinion man. ALSO, you drop 6k into a Disco and do it right and I swear that you will be hard pressed to find ANY full size that could hang with you. I'd bet my next check on that.
