180 Thermostat Install - Fail!
#12
05-16-2012, 07:54 PM
Mudding
#13
05-16-2012, 08:13 PM
Advantage to the 180 is your temps will run a lot cooler. I had no idea that the one I pulled off was a 180 by Motorad. My temps never reached over 204 with that one. My fan never kicked on.
Just installed the dealer stat and everything is working fine again. But of course my temps are now reaching 212 and fan is kicking on at times. Hopefully the water weter will kick in after I finish my test drive.
Just installed the dealer stat and everything is working fine again. But of course my temps are now reaching 212 and fan is kicking on at times. Hopefully the water weter will kick in after I finish my test drive.
#14
05-16-2012, 08:29 PM
Super Moderator
The 180 stat with soft spring will run engine about 10 degrees cooler. IMHO it is worth doing, and I run a 180 on mine (D1). The Buicks of the 1960's (Skylark) that had the aluminum engine had a stock stat of 180F. That was before all the pollution control rules and excess bloated government regulations. Rover and other companies run hotter to try to make emissions as low as possible so they can sell the vehicles.
I have a friend who is 78 years old, rides a Harley every day it does not rain, and started at GM in 1955. He worked at the Buick engine plant, and told me that he had worked in the block test room for several years. They would have 75 - 100 engines hooked up to hoses and fuel, and run them to see if they passed QC before being sent to assembly plant to go into a car. He said the torture test was to run them at 212F and rev them up. After they passed that (various gauges on test panel indicated green), the rest of the tests were done at 160F. Every engine went through this before moving on to final installation in a car. So asking what the engine was designed for has to cover a lot of bases, and certainly standards in the 60's were relaxed compared to today. But the engines had more "meat" in them, they had not been bored out, then bored some more, in a quest for increased power. Increase in displacement decreased the quantity of metal between cylinders, etc. The D1 has a big copper and brass radiator that is larger than the D2 radiator. Cost savings. Some we make the engne displacement larger, we decrease the radiator size, and we run the temps just below 212 or a little over. And to keep the owner from noticing, we program the temp gauge to point to the center for a very wide range of temperatures, iincluding over 220F. Trucks have a lot of head gasket issues, overheating issues, slipped liner issues. IMHO, I'll pay the price at the pump for a tiny decrease in MPG (haven't noticed) for a little insurance on the temps. If the factory spec is stat starts to open at 180F, then on a moderate day you should be able to operate somewhere near there. You should not need to drive around all the time at 208F plus. Viva the Ultra Gauge!
I have a friend who is 78 years old, rides a Harley every day it does not rain, and started at GM in 1955. He worked at the Buick engine plant, and told me that he had worked in the block test room for several years. They would have 75 - 100 engines hooked up to hoses and fuel, and run them to see if they passed QC before being sent to assembly plant to go into a car. He said the torture test was to run them at 212F and rev them up. After they passed that (various gauges on test panel indicated green), the rest of the tests were done at 160F. Every engine went through this before moving on to final installation in a car. So asking what the engine was designed for has to cover a lot of bases, and certainly standards in the 60's were relaxed compared to today. But the engines had more "meat" in them, they had not been bored out, then bored some more, in a quest for increased power. Increase in displacement decreased the quantity of metal between cylinders, etc. The D1 has a big copper and brass radiator that is larger than the D2 radiator. Cost savings. Some we make the engne displacement larger, we decrease the radiator size, and we run the temps just below 212 or a little over. And to keep the owner from noticing, we program the temp gauge to point to the center for a very wide range of temperatures, iincluding over 220F. Trucks have a lot of head gasket issues, overheating issues, slipped liner issues. IMHO, I'll pay the price at the pump for a tiny decrease in MPG (haven't noticed) for a little insurance on the temps. If the factory spec is stat starts to open at 180F, then on a moderate day you should be able to operate somewhere near there. You should not need to drive around all the time at 208F plus. Viva the Ultra Gauge!
Last edited by Savannah Buzz; 05-16-2012 at 10:28 PM.
#15
05-16-2012, 08:36 PM
Finally..
The 180 stat with soft spring will run engine about 10 degrees cooler. IMHO it is worth doing, and I run a 180 on mine (D1). The Buicks of the 1960's (Skylark) that had the aluminum engine had a stock stat of 180F. That was before all the pollution control rules and excess bloated government regulations. Rover and other companies run hotter to try to make emissions as low as possible so they can sell the vehicles.
I have a friend who is 78 years old, rides a Harley every day it does not rain, and started at GM in 1955. He worked at the Buick engine plant, and told me that he had worked in the block test room for several years. They would have 75 - 100 engines hooked up to hoses and fuel, and run them to see if they passed QC before being sent to assembly plant to go into a car. He said the torture test was to run them at 212F and rev them up. After they passed that (various gauges on test panel indicated green), the rest of the tests were done at 160F. Every engine went through this before moving on to final installation in a car. So asking what the engine was designed for has to cover a lot of bases, and certainly standards in the 60's were relaxed compared to today. But the engines had more "meat" in them, they had not been bored out, then bored some more, in a quest for increased power. Increase in displacement decreased the quantity of metal between cyclinders, etc. The D1 has a big copper and brass radiator that is larger than the D2 radiator. Cost savings. Some we make the engne displacement larger, we decrease the radiator size, and we run the temps just below 212 or a little over. And to keep the owner from noticing, we program the temp gauge to point to the center for a very wide range of temperatures, iincluding over 220F. Trucks have a lot of head gasket issues, overheating issues, slipped liner issues. IMHO, I'll pay the price at the pump for a tiny decrease in MPG (haven't noticed) for a little insurance on the temps. If the factory spec is stat starts to open at 180F, then on a moderate day you should be able to operate somewhere near there. You should not need to drive around all the time at 200F plus. Viva the Ultra Gauge!
I have a friend who is 78 years old, rides a Harley every day it does not rain, and started at GM in 1955. He worked at the Buick engine plant, and told me that he had worked in the block test room for several years. They would have 75 - 100 engines hooked up to hoses and fuel, and run them to see if they passed QC before being sent to assembly plant to go into a car. He said the torture test was to run them at 212F and rev them up. After they passed that (various gauges on test panel indicated green), the rest of the tests were done at 160F. Every engine went through this before moving on to final installation in a car. So asking what the engine was designed for has to cover a lot of bases, and certainly standards in the 60's were relaxed compared to today. But the engines had more "meat" in them, they had not been bored out, then bored some more, in a quest for increased power. Increase in displacement decreased the quantity of metal between cyclinders, etc. The D1 has a big copper and brass radiator that is larger than the D2 radiator. Cost savings. Some we make the engne displacement larger, we decrease the radiator size, and we run the temps just below 212 or a little over. And to keep the owner from noticing, we program the temp gauge to point to the center for a very wide range of temperatures, iincluding over 220F. Trucks have a lot of head gasket issues, overheating issues, slipped liner issues. IMHO, I'll pay the price at the pump for a tiny decrease in MPG (haven't noticed) for a little insurance on the temps. If the factory spec is stat starts to open at 180F, then on a moderate day you should be able to operate somewhere near there. You should not need to drive around all the time at 200F plus. Viva the Ultra Gauge!
#17
05-17-2012, 10:04 AM
Rock Crawling
Putting in a lower opening temperature thermostat only works if the rest of the cooling system is in tip-top shape. The coolant has less time in the radiator with a lower temp 'stat, thus less time to cool it down. If the radiator can't reduce the temperature low enough in that shorter period of time, then you'll run into overheating issues.
#18
05-17-2012, 12:09 PM
Super Moderator
Yes, but if the system as a whole, regardless of stat rating, is running above the wide open temp of the stat, such as a 195 stat running at 210 (assume 15 degree window between starts to open and fully open); the stat, being wide open, is no longer part of the "equation" except for the internal diameter of the stat body. Coolant is flowing at water pump rate, which is about 2.6 gallons a minute at 1000 rpm. The point of coolant needing to spend time in the radiator is correct, running with no stat can make things worse. You need stat being in a range where it cycles open/closed. Once temps exceed that range, cooling is under the control of the water pump (flow rate) and radiator efficiency (plugged with mud from last weekend on the trail).
I feel comfortable with a cooling system if it operates normally at rated temp of the stat, or maybe 6-7 degrees warmer. But cooling system has other problems if it must run at wide open stat temperature all the time. I've run no stat, 160, 180, and 195. And found the 180 to my liking.
The D2 has that remote bypass stat, which introduces and additional issue. Time delay. The coolant gets hot inside the engine, then has to be transported via the upper hose into the stat housing, pass thru some metering holes, and warm up the stat inside the chamber so it will operate. Plug up holes with crud, and that will change how fast hot coolant is making stat react. A D1 has 1 192-195 stock stat (opening temp). The stock for a D2 is "starts to open at 180" - but engine temp readings are back inside the intake, an that separation makes the D2 run hotter than the stat is.
And then there is dexcool and other radiator sludge, which reduces the number of cooling paths available inside the radiator, and the volume of coolant that can be used, so reducing the cooling capacity.
I feel comfortable with a cooling system if it operates normally at rated temp of the stat, or maybe 6-7 degrees warmer. But cooling system has other problems if it must run at wide open stat temperature all the time. I've run no stat, 160, 180, and 195. And found the 180 to my liking.
The D2 has that remote bypass stat, which introduces and additional issue. Time delay. The coolant gets hot inside the engine, then has to be transported via the upper hose into the stat housing, pass thru some metering holes, and warm up the stat inside the chamber so it will operate. Plug up holes with crud, and that will change how fast hot coolant is making stat react. A D1 has 1 192-195 stock stat (opening temp). The stock for a D2 is "starts to open at 180" - but engine temp readings are back inside the intake, an that separation makes the D2 run hotter than the stat is.
And then there is dexcool and other radiator sludge, which reduces the number of cooling paths available inside the radiator, and the volume of coolant that can be used, so reducing the cooling capacity.
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