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Changes made:
New Goodrich SS lines
New front left Proline caliper from Rovers North
Used master cylinder for testing,
Bench bled the master cylinder on the Rover using clear hose back to the reservoir from the hard lines, until there was no air, then reinsterted in the into the ABS modulator
Well I've done 2-3 previous brake jobs on this Rover and other cars and never had this issue. After doing a manual bleed(Brake pedal) per the RAV instructions, power bleed and modulator bleed using a Foxwell tool. The pedal is still soft and dives 3 inches of travel. I can pump it up with 2-3 pumps and lock up the front tires. Its definitely not safe to stop.There are no leaks on any of the calipers, no leaks from the modulator and or master cylinder. There is vacuum from the booster. I'm leaning towards a bad master cylinder. But odd how the master could be fine 4 days ago and now dead. Has anyone broke the master cylinder pushing the pedal too far past its normal travel? I keep a 2x4 under the pedal when bleeding. Any help is appreciated, I'm stumped
i use a manual bleeder pump that uses a container and hose from the caliper bleeder. it pulls the air out but does not allow air back in.
Use it at each caliper and ensure you keep the reservoir full between each brake.
once bled, if the pedal doesn’t stiffen; and you know all lines and calipers are good...it must be the master cylinder.
If it's able to pump up and work... that leads me to believe air in the system that takes two pumps to compress enough to make wheel slaves travel... i vote "air pocket somewhere". Whether it be in abs or a not fully bled master. If it was a seal it would bypass, sometimes intermittantly... not pump up consistantly and then hold. If it was a return valve, you'd get hard pedal and brakes that were stuck. I guess the good news is, that if it goed off a cliff, you have the old "brakes didn't work" alibi with your adjuster.
ive seen extremely warped brakes also back wheel cylinders off enough during driving where two pumps were needed to get enough pad/shoe travel back to the disk/drum to stop. All wheel bearings good? Everything on straight?
Last edited by TexasLandmark; Sep 1, 2020 at 05:02 PM.
If it's able to pump up and work... that leads me to believe air in the system that takes two pumps to compress enough to make wheel slaves travel... i vote "air pocket somewhere". Whether it be in abs or a not fully bled master. If it was a seal it would bypass, sometimes intermittantly... not pump up consistantly and then hold. If it was a return valve, you'd get hard pedal and brakes that were stuck. I guess the good news is, that if it goed off a cliff, you have the old "brakes didn't work" alibi with your adjuster.
ive seen extremely warped brakes also back wheel cylinders off enough during driving where two pumps were needed to get enough pad/shoe travel back to the disk/drum to stop. All wheel bearings good? Everything on straight?
Yes, the rear brakes were not changed. No vibration in the pedal. I have about 1/4" of pad left each on the rears. It has to be an air bubble somewhere. Going back out to bled this thing.
This is one man bleeder I use with a 90* rubber fitting at the end.
I've always wanted to buy some speed bleeders ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/262951524617 ) but have never justified it... i dont think the air is in a place you will bleed it out from any of the four wheel cylinders though.
I've always wanted to buy some speed bleeders ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/262951524617 ) but have never justified it... i dont think the air is in a place you will bleed it out from any of the four wheel cylinders though.
Those speed bleeders seem like a smart idea. After using the bleeder I linked from Amazon, I like how it traps the brake fluid in the line( the check valve is at the bottom of the hose, so you can see there is no air in the line.
Just took the Rover to Goodyear they did a brake diagnostic, manual bleed, ABS bleed and got the same results, still no reliable brake pedal. There is a recall on the ABS modulator Ref# 04V005000. I called Land Rover support and they said there is no active campaign for my vehicle.My VIN# does not fall within the range for the defect. But could not determine from dealer records if the recall service was performed on the ABS modulator. The recall is for a cracked valve, defect in the ABS modulator block. Seems that may be my issue or a defective new master cylinder. It never ends! Going to buy a used ABS modulator from a private salvage yard in Monument, CO tomorrow.
Only recall I ever remember messing with on D2's and the ABS WABCO Unit was with the plastic caps on the two valves which were exposed to heat from under the hood. They could fail and pop out. LR then issued the installation of two metal caps with longer allen bolts to cover the caps which prevented them from direct heat and if they failed the couldn't simply pop out.
WABCO ABS Unit without the updated plates installed:
WABCO ABS Unit with the updated plates installed:
If you don't have the updated plates you should be able to track some down at a salvage yard.
Only recall I ever remember messing with on D2's and the ABS WABCO Unit was with the plastic caps on the two valves which were exposed to heat from under the hood. They could fail and pop out. LR then issued the installation of two metal caps with longer allen bolts to cover the caps which prevented them from direct heat and if they failed the couldn't simply pop out.
WABCO ABS Unit without the updated plates installed:
WABCO ABS Unit with the updated plates installed:
If you don't have the updated plates you should be able to track some down at a salvage yard.
Yes I have the updated steel plates. Bummer, but I still think there is a bad valve, seat or plate inside the block that is letting brake fluid pass when it would usually be closed. Its the only brake component that could cause an issue like I'm experiencing.
This video explains it well, even though its a Ford, all brake systems are similar.
