Buying a Discovery
Mudding
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 155
Likes: 28
I mostly agree with the above assessment, but you can't ignore the fact that the engine in D2's and especially the last years are hopelessly flawed. Maybe you don't count the engine as part of the drivetrain. The overwhelming majority of late year D2 V8's will lose coolant, blow head gaskets, slip liners and be junked. You can't even expect to swap in a junkyard motor because it will almost certainly have the same flaws. Some are hoping for a LS swap kit, but anyone wanting to keep a late model D2 for long has to expect to pay for a flanged-liner, rebuilt engine at some point.
The transmission and transfercase are not bad, but they do fail. Their biggest vulnerability is from broken front driveshafts simply smashing them. I had one take out both, and I found out it's not uncommon on D2's. It wasn't from a lack of maintenance either. The rotoflex is easy to replace. The diffs and axle assemblies are awesome if you have ones that aren't crap. You want carriers that are 4 pin or aftermarket and you want axles that aren't twisted too many times beyond their elastic limit. Most stock diffs will have the weak 2-pin carriers that are easy to break. Most stock axles on vehicles with over 100K will be fatigued and need replacement or they will be vulnerable to break.
The transmission and transfercase are not bad, but they do fail. Their biggest vulnerability is from broken front driveshafts simply smashing them. I had one take out both, and I found out it's not uncommon on D2's. It wasn't from a lack of maintenance either. The rotoflex is easy to replace. The diffs and axle assemblies are awesome if you have ones that aren't crap. You want carriers that are 4 pin or aftermarket and you want axles that aren't twisted too many times beyond their elastic limit. Most stock diffs will have the weak 2-pin carriers that are easy to break. Most stock axles on vehicles with over 100K will be fatigued and need replacement or they will be vulnerable to break.
I mostly agree with the above assessment, but you can't ignore the fact that the engine in D2's and especially the last years are hopelessly flawed. Maybe you don't count the engine as part of the drivetrain. The overwhelming majority of late year D2 V8's will lose coolant, blow head gaskets, slip liners and be junked. You can't even expect to swap in a junkyard motor because it will almost certainly have the same flaws. Some are hoping for a LS swap kit, but anyone wanting to keep a late model D2 for long has to expect to pay for a flanged-liner, rebuilt engine at some point.
The transmission and transfercase are not bad, but they do fail. Their biggest vulnerability is from broken front driveshafts simply smashing them. I had one take out both, and I found out it's not uncommon on D2's. It wasn't from a lack of maintenance either. The rotoflex is easy to replace. The diffs and axle assemblies are awesome if you have ones that aren't crap. You want carriers that are 4 pin or aftermarket and you want axles that aren't twisted too many times beyond their elastic limit. Most stock diffs will have the weak 2-pin carriers that are easy to break. Most stock axles on vehicles with over 100K will be fatigued and need replacement or they will be vulnerable to break.
The transmission and transfercase are not bad, but they do fail. Their biggest vulnerability is from broken front driveshafts simply smashing them. I had one take out both, and I found out it's not uncommon on D2's. It wasn't from a lack of maintenance either. The rotoflex is easy to replace. The diffs and axle assemblies are awesome if you have ones that aren't crap. You want carriers that are 4 pin or aftermarket and you want axles that aren't twisted too many times beyond their elastic limit. Most stock diffs will have the weak 2-pin carriers that are easy to break. Most stock axles on vehicles with over 100K will be fatigued and need replacement or they will be vulnerable to break.
- Dodge/Jeep SUVs have never had reliable transmissions - few make it to 100k.
- Volvo XC90 1st gen SUV's with T6 had frequent transmission failures. Also known cam belt failures resulting in complete engine destruction. Yamaha V8's would collect water cause cam failures.
- 1st gen BMW X5 4.4 liter V8's timing change tensioners fail result in either 40hr repair bills or total engine failure. Never mind the bull**** VANOS failures that result in 1000's of dollars of repairs.
- GM 4L60e transmissions never make it past 150k without gear 2-3 failures.
- Ford 5.4 V8's cam phasers, 4.6 intake manifolds
BTW, I currently have 3 for personal use, 2000 236k, 2000 218k, 2003 170k. Original engines, transmission, axles, etc. All have had head gaskets at some point.
OP, do your homework, go in eyes wide open. Good luck.
I was pretty dang rough on my 235k original drivetrain at the 2018 HCRR and I drove home at 80MPH without even feeling like I had punished my D2 off road for two straight days!
Anything mechanical can and will fail at one point or another. I’ve yet to own a D1/P38/D2 with s slipped sleve or cracked block. I did snap an axle shaft on my 97 RR, but that was my fault as the wheel hopped, spun, and then grabbed... I’ve owned 19 LR’s so far and every single one minus the parts truck I bought strickly for parts = never had an issue & when I sold them I kept in contact with the new owner and as far as I know they’re still going today!
If they were that crappy trust me I’d have owned a few by now. Get a well maintained LR, and continue to maintain it, and it will be good to you!
Anything mechanical can and will fail at one point or another. I’ve yet to own a D1/P38/D2 with s slipped sleve or cracked block. I did snap an axle shaft on my 97 RR, but that was my fault as the wheel hopped, spun, and then grabbed... I’ve owned 19 LR’s so far and every single one minus the parts truck I bought strickly for parts = never had an issue & when I sold them I kept in contact with the new owner and as far as I know they’re still going today!
If they were that crappy trust me I’d have owned a few by now. Get a well maintained LR, and continue to maintain it, and it will be good to you!
Camel Trophy
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 4,865
Likes: 1,409
From: Michigan
Even Toyota have their issues. Owned a 82 and 85 pickup, both had the trans out, one three times (82 - imput bearing failures and fifth gear failure) and the other twice (85 - imput bearing failures), and they were known to have leafspring failures (which is what rolled my 82, after selling it to a friend). And talk about rust issues...the boxes looked like swiss cheese after a few years.
But, they were like the Dll...loved the way they looked (especially with a couple dirt bikes in the bed) and driving them was worth the issues. Coolness...comes at a cost.
Brian.
But, they were like the Dll...loved the way they looked (especially with a couple dirt bikes in the bed) and driving them was worth the issues. Coolness...comes at a cost.
Brian.
Recovery Vehicle
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,174
Likes: 469
Yeah, I’m gonna pile on Nathan too. I was THE MOST critical person of Rovers and the Disco specifically for many years- despite really wanting one for the longest time. I even did a full on thread on Expedition Portal on my irrational desire for one.
And even my first one definitely had its issues. However, “long term high cost of ownership”? Um, no. These are now mostly enthusiast owned vehicles and as such have rather savvy owners who know how to get parts cheaper and do the work themselves.
To put it specifically, if I had a dealer or shop do all the fixes- some small, some larger- I would be into my latest D2 what I paid for it ($4k). As I know where to get parts, installed used parts when possible, and of course have done ALL of it myself, I barely have $5k in it and the list is LONG that I sorted out and that cost INCLUDES modifications. Since then? Um, oil? Oh yeah, a couple air and oil filters. And I have USED mine. Not as much hard core off road as a lot here, but I’ve pushed it very hard from everything to extreme temps, to towing, to hauling and blah blah blah.
Bottom line, I have more or less done a complete 180 on my assessment of Rovers as a whole. Yes, they have flaws (all of them) but all enthusiast vehicles do. Also, as stated, they are only as good a the maintenance done to them. You get one that was neglected, you get to sort it out. And that is my point, once you sort it out, it’s as good as any other vehicle for reliability and such.
So then, getting back on target to the OPs questions:
- Clunk- I’d crawl under underneath and check the driveshafts. You lose a front driveshaft and you total the vehicle. I’d also check the fluid levels across the board (diffs, T case, tranny) to make sure there is at least fluid in them
- Additional observations- When I bought my latest one, I did a fly and drive and took tools, diagnostic equipment, and made a very extensive list off the things to check/verify. Part off this was due to the ~1k mile drive home, but part was also to know exactly what I was getting into before I started talking turkey with the seller. I literally spent about an hour crawling in, around, and under the vehicle before even starting it. My point there is you need to run codes, during a test drive be able to monitor idle, and varying driving temps to see how they cycle.
As is well known in the community, EVERYTHING is very well documented on fixes, the OEM service manual (VERY detailed) is free and readily available as well, and there are great outlets for questions to get ANYTHING answered very quickly and easily.
I have most all options available in my current D2 and a couple of them are usually disconnected or removed altogether due to the reputation of being junk. Well, everything works on mine and I studied in the manual how they function and the components, so I’m ready if/when something tanks.
And even my first one definitely had its issues. However, “long term high cost of ownership”? Um, no. These are now mostly enthusiast owned vehicles and as such have rather savvy owners who know how to get parts cheaper and do the work themselves.
To put it specifically, if I had a dealer or shop do all the fixes- some small, some larger- I would be into my latest D2 what I paid for it ($4k). As I know where to get parts, installed used parts when possible, and of course have done ALL of it myself, I barely have $5k in it and the list is LONG that I sorted out and that cost INCLUDES modifications. Since then? Um, oil? Oh yeah, a couple air and oil filters. And I have USED mine. Not as much hard core off road as a lot here, but I’ve pushed it very hard from everything to extreme temps, to towing, to hauling and blah blah blah.
Bottom line, I have more or less done a complete 180 on my assessment of Rovers as a whole. Yes, they have flaws (all of them) but all enthusiast vehicles do. Also, as stated, they are only as good a the maintenance done to them. You get one that was neglected, you get to sort it out. And that is my point, once you sort it out, it’s as good as any other vehicle for reliability and such.
So then, getting back on target to the OPs questions:
- Clunk- I’d crawl under underneath and check the driveshafts. You lose a front driveshaft and you total the vehicle. I’d also check the fluid levels across the board (diffs, T case, tranny) to make sure there is at least fluid in them
- Additional observations- When I bought my latest one, I did a fly and drive and took tools, diagnostic equipment, and made a very extensive list off the things to check/verify. Part off this was due to the ~1k mile drive home, but part was also to know exactly what I was getting into before I started talking turkey with the seller. I literally spent about an hour crawling in, around, and under the vehicle before even starting it. My point there is you need to run codes, during a test drive be able to monitor idle, and varying driving temps to see how they cycle.
As is well known in the community, EVERYTHING is very well documented on fixes, the OEM service manual (VERY detailed) is free and readily available as well, and there are great outlets for questions to get ANYTHING answered very quickly and easily.
I have most all options available in my current D2 and a couple of them are usually disconnected or removed altogether due to the reputation of being junk. Well, everything works on mine and I studied in the manual how they function and the components, so I’m ready if/when something tanks.
I think I read that article Longtallsally. Enjoyed it.
The DII is not the by the book smart Car purchase, but that isn’t the point for most of us.
we want to like our cars, and we like this one. That’s the point. No one has ever balanced a budget by buying a car.
The DII is not the by the book smart Car purchase, but that isn’t the point for most of us.
we want to like our cars, and we like this one. That’s the point. No one has ever balanced a budget by buying a car.
I've owned a lot of 4x4's and they were pretty much a dime a dozen. LR's however are more than just a very capable 4x4, to me they're a passion. Out at the HCRR event I saw first hand that I am not alone. Every LR at the event was driven by someone that cared for it and with the exception of the beginner group (new to LR's) 99% of the guys knew their LR's inside & out.
When I had a few Jeep's it really wasn't like that at an event, it was more like oh look at me I dumped 30K on name brand parts and had some shop install it all. I bet you anything they probably didn't even know where the hood release lever was. Owning a Jeep is more of an image thing IMHO or it's like they feel safe in large groups or something like a biker gang.
I saw plenty of older RRC/D1/D90/D2/P38's at HCRR and every single owner took pride in their vehicles and when the time came to wheel everyone got in line, and wheeled with a great respect not only for the trail, but for each other. If something broke everyone went out of their way to help or give the broken rig a spare part to get em going again without wanting a thing back in return.
That is just something you don't really see in large off road groups. I've seen trails get trashed after Jeep's hit the trail that have no clue what Tread Lightly even meant.
So Land Rover's are far more than just a luxury SUV 4x4 that is very capable on/off road. They are extremely unique, well built (everything has flaws), and the people that own and wheel them are just a different breed of people I guess. I saw people I haven't seen in nearly 25 years (they were service advisor’s when my mom had an 89 RRC), and it was like I'd just talked to them the day before.
I've tried other 4x4 brands, but I truly Bleed Green and I'm proud of it. I specialize in older RRC/D1/D2's and I'm learning about the LR3/RRS. I love to modify and improve on the original design (Bosch PCV Mod for example) and I'll do my best to keep as many LR's on the road as I can.
When I had a few Jeep's it really wasn't like that at an event, it was more like oh look at me I dumped 30K on name brand parts and had some shop install it all. I bet you anything they probably didn't even know where the hood release lever was. Owning a Jeep is more of an image thing IMHO or it's like they feel safe in large groups or something like a biker gang.
I saw plenty of older RRC/D1/D90/D2/P38's at HCRR and every single owner took pride in their vehicles and when the time came to wheel everyone got in line, and wheeled with a great respect not only for the trail, but for each other. If something broke everyone went out of their way to help or give the broken rig a spare part to get em going again without wanting a thing back in return.
That is just something you don't really see in large off road groups. I've seen trails get trashed after Jeep's hit the trail that have no clue what Tread Lightly even meant.
So Land Rover's are far more than just a luxury SUV 4x4 that is very capable on/off road. They are extremely unique, well built (everything has flaws), and the people that own and wheel them are just a different breed of people I guess. I saw people I haven't seen in nearly 25 years (they were service advisor’s when my mom had an 89 RRC), and it was like I'd just talked to them the day before.
I've tried other 4x4 brands, but I truly Bleed Green and I'm proud of it. I specialize in older RRC/D1/D2's and I'm learning about the LR3/RRS. I love to modify and improve on the original design (Bosch PCV Mod for example) and I'll do my best to keep as many LR's on the road as I can.
Last edited by Best4x4; Oct 13, 2018 at 11:07 AM.
TReK
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,387
Likes: 488
My D2 is a pain in the ***.
Some days I'de like to set it on fire.
But I can't do that, because I love it...and haven't even driven it in over a year.
Make sense to anyone? No? Me neither.
You buy one because you really like them, and are prepared to work on it.
Mine is a black on black 04. It needed more time and money than I really wanted to put into one, and I paid $3k for it, with alot of new parts and money in it from the PO.
I got starry eyed when I finally found a black/black 04 in decent shape, so I can't complain about fixing the things I purposely looked past when I bought it, lol.
Some days I'de like to set it on fire.
But I can't do that, because I love it...and haven't even driven it in over a year.
Make sense to anyone? No? Me neither.
You buy one because you really like them, and are prepared to work on it.
Mine is a black on black 04. It needed more time and money than I really wanted to put into one, and I paid $3k for it, with alot of new parts and money in it from the PO.
I got starry eyed when I finally found a black/black 04 in decent shape, so I can't complain about fixing the things I purposely looked past when I bought it, lol.
