Buying "needs head gasket" Discovery II, looking for advice.
Thread Starter
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Winching
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 517
Likes: 62
From: Oceanside CA
Buying "needs head gasket" Discovery II, looking for advice.
I am picking up a running but overheating Discovery II.
First of all, I am well aware that I could need a new engine which could cost 10k. That being said, I would like to use this as an experience to learn how to do some more advanced repairs and see if I can get away with a more cost-effective solution.
The previous owner reports "I was driving it and the temperature gauge stopped working, steam started coming out and I pulled over and had it towed."
He reports a local shop said it was a head gasket failure. Does this seem consistent with the symptoms?
What I am planning to do is the following:
-Poke around to make sure any obvious stuff isn't disconnected or broken.
- Replace thermostat and flush the cooling system and see what happens.
-Replace head gaskets and bolts. (should I get heads resurfaced? valve job? cams?) and see what happens.
-If it is still not running right, order a long block from Turner or Atlantic British.
Basically, I want to throw less than $1000 in parts at it and see if it resolves the problem and if it doesn't, go all in on replacing the engine.
Any advice or input is much appreciated.
First of all, I am well aware that I could need a new engine which could cost 10k. That being said, I would like to use this as an experience to learn how to do some more advanced repairs and see if I can get away with a more cost-effective solution.
The previous owner reports "I was driving it and the temperature gauge stopped working, steam started coming out and I pulled over and had it towed."
He reports a local shop said it was a head gasket failure. Does this seem consistent with the symptoms?
What I am planning to do is the following:
-Poke around to make sure any obvious stuff isn't disconnected or broken.
- Replace thermostat and flush the cooling system and see what happens.
-Replace head gaskets and bolts. (should I get heads resurfaced? valve job? cams?) and see what happens.
-If it is still not running right, order a long block from Turner or Atlantic British.
Basically, I want to throw less than $1000 in parts at it and see if it resolves the problem and if it doesn't, go all in on replacing the engine.
Any advice or input is much appreciated.
I think this is an excellent and smart course of action.
Head gasket failure is common, what you need to determine is if the block is cracked. If the block is OK, you could pin the liners, and stick in a Crower or Kent Cam in.
Take your time, bag and label all of your parts. If in budget do all new sensors, plugs, coilpacks and wires. I would spend a little more and do it with Elring Head Gaskets, and Fel-Pro for the rest. The Britpart and Proline gaskets are crappy and make the job more difficult. Not impossible of course, just are a headache to install. I like proline's hoses and some Britparts parts, but the gaskets....yuk.
Head gasket failure is common, what you need to determine is if the block is cracked. If the block is OK, you could pin the liners, and stick in a Crower or Kent Cam in.
Take your time, bag and label all of your parts. If in budget do all new sensors, plugs, coilpacks and wires. I would spend a little more and do it with Elring Head Gaskets, and Fel-Pro for the rest. The Britpart and Proline gaskets are crappy and make the job more difficult. Not impossible of course, just are a headache to install. I like proline's hoses and some Britparts parts, but the gaskets....yuk.
Thread Starter
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Winching
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 517
Likes: 62
From: Oceanside CA
Thank you.
Is there an easy way to check for a cracked block once the heads are off?
After a quick google search, I see the Elring Head Gaskets come as a stand alone item. Is there a kit somewhere I can use such as the one from Atlantic British, or can I order the Atlantic British kit and then just toss the actual gasket and use the Elring ones?
Thanks again.
Is there an easy way to check for a cracked block once the heads are off?
After a quick google search, I see the Elring Head Gaskets come as a stand alone item. Is there a kit somewhere I can use such as the one from Atlantic British, or can I order the Atlantic British kit and then just toss the actual gasket and use the Elring ones?
Thanks again.
Pro Wrench
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,709
Likes: 137
From: NE PA
I'd clean it up, bleed it properly, and see if theres any issues first.
People think they can just fill the coolant bottle and never worry about it again.
Find out where the head gasket leak is, head gasket kits arent expensive currently and if you dont want to put alloy into it...
I just did my head gaskets and I did it for less than $300.
People think they can just fill the coolant bottle and never worry about it again.
Find out where the head gasket leak is, head gasket kits arent expensive currently and if you dont want to put alloy into it...
I just did my head gaskets and I did it for less than $300.
Thank you.
Is there an easy way to check for a cracked block once the heads are off?
After a quick google search, I see the Elring Head Gaskets come as a stand alone item. Is there a kit somewhere I can use such as the one from Atlantic British, or can I order the Atlantic British kit and then just toss the actual gasket and use the Elring ones?
Thanks again.
Is there an easy way to check for a cracked block once the heads are off?
After a quick google search, I see the Elring Head Gaskets come as a stand alone item. Is there a kit somewhere I can use such as the one from Atlantic British, or can I order the Atlantic British kit and then just toss the actual gasket and use the Elring ones?
Thanks again.
http://www.felpro.com/find-my-part/f...over~Discovery
I used ARP Studs, and did not want to use Britpart stretch bolts, if I were to use stretch bolts I would do Genuine.
Use Permatex Aviation Gasket Prep/Sealant on your intake, and upper intake gaskets. I bought all new bolts, but I would consider blue loctite on the lower intake bolts, and the valley pan clamp bolts as well if you use the old ones.Clean all surfaces well, plenty of YouTube on that. Do a radiator flush with distilled water and a flushing product when you are done. I’d recommend all new hoses, and definitely a thermostat but you can inspect those. Watch the AB video closely, and take your time.
You’ll need a breaker bar for disassembly and a 2foot pipe to extend it. I used a 3/8” craftsmen torque wrench to torque everything. You’ll need a 12mm 12 point 3/8”. Socket for the exhaust manifolds, and 3/8 extensions, sockets and swivels, a good set of 1/4” sockets, swivel and extensions as well.
Also radiator hose spring clamp pliers are a godsend.
As for checking the block, I do not know how to do that. Mine had not overheated when I noticed it was leaking. I believe a search through this forum will get you an answer to that however.
Last edited by CollieRover; Jun 19, 2018 at 10:19 PM.
Pro Wrench
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,709
Likes: 137
From: NE PA
There is a Fel Pro kit. It just may be a little more expensive, but IMO worth it. I’ve no experience with the Fel Pro Head gasket itself, but it may be very good. I’d use it over proline. You can order the Elring separately from Lucky 8.
Car Part Results | Fel-Pro Gaskets
I used ARP Studs, and did not want to use Britpart stretch bolts, if I were to use stretch bolts I would do Genuine.
Use Permatex Aviation Gasket Prep/Sealant on your intake, and upper intake gaskets. I bought all new bolts, but I would consider blue loctite on the lower intake bolts, and the valley pan clamp bolts as well if you use the old ones.Clean all surfaces well, plenty of YouTube on that. Do a radiator flush with distilled water and a flushing product when you are done. I’d recommend all new hoses, and definitely a thermostat but you can inspect those. Watch the AB video closely, and take your time.
You’ll need a breaker bar for disassembly and a 2foot pipe to extend it. I used a 3/8” craftsmen torque wrench to torque everything. You’ll need a 12mm 12 point 3/8”. Socket for the exhaust manifolds, and 3/8 extensions, sockets and swivels, a good set of 1/4” sockets, swivel and extensions as well.
As for checking the block, I do not know how to do that. Mine had not overheated when I noticed it was leaking. I believe a search through this forum will get you an answer to that however.
Thread Starter
|
Winching
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 517
Likes: 62
From: Oceanside CA
Thanks for the detailed reply!
There is a Fel Pro kit. It just may be a little more expensive, but IMO worth it. I’ve no experience with the Fel Pro Head gasket itself, but it may be very good. I’d use it over proline. You can order the Elring separately from Lucky 8.
Car Part Results | Fel-Pro Gaskets
I used ARP Studs, and did not want to use Britpart stretch bolts, if I were to use stretch bolts I would do Genuine.
Use Permatex Aviation Gasket Prep/Sealant on your intake, and upper intake gaskets. I bought all new bolts, but I would consider blue loctite on the lower intake bolts, and the valley pan clamp bolts as well if you use the old ones.Clean all surfaces well, plenty of YouTube on that. Do a radiator flush with distilled water and a flushing product when you are done. I’d recommend all new hoses, and definitely a thermostat but you can inspect those. Watch the AB video closely, and take your time.
You’ll need a breaker bar for disassembly and a 2foot pipe to extend it. I used a 3/8” craftsmen torque wrench to torque everything. You’ll need a 12mm 12 point 3/8”. Socket for the exhaust manifolds, and 3/8 extensions, sockets and swivels, a good set of 1/4” sockets, swivel and extensions as well.
Also radiator hose spring clamp pliers are a godsend.
As for checking the block, I do not know how to do that. Mine had not overheated when I noticed it was leaking. I believe a search through this forum will get you an answer to that however.
There is a Fel Pro kit. It just may be a little more expensive, but IMO worth it. I’ve no experience with the Fel Pro Head gasket itself, but it may be very good. I’d use it over proline. You can order the Elring separately from Lucky 8.
Car Part Results | Fel-Pro Gaskets
I used ARP Studs, and did not want to use Britpart stretch bolts, if I were to use stretch bolts I would do Genuine.
Use Permatex Aviation Gasket Prep/Sealant on your intake, and upper intake gaskets. I bought all new bolts, but I would consider blue loctite on the lower intake bolts, and the valley pan clamp bolts as well if you use the old ones.Clean all surfaces well, plenty of YouTube on that. Do a radiator flush with distilled water and a flushing product when you are done. I’d recommend all new hoses, and definitely a thermostat but you can inspect those. Watch the AB video closely, and take your time.
You’ll need a breaker bar for disassembly and a 2foot pipe to extend it. I used a 3/8” craftsmen torque wrench to torque everything. You’ll need a 12mm 12 point 3/8”. Socket for the exhaust manifolds, and 3/8 extensions, sockets and swivels, a good set of 1/4” sockets, swivel and extensions as well.
Also radiator hose spring clamp pliers are a godsend.
As for checking the block, I do not know how to do that. Mine had not overheated when I noticed it was leaking. I believe a search through this forum will get you an answer to that however.
You can look at my recent thread - Head Gasket Job Questions and the guys were real helpful. You'll have to read through some of my freakouts though.
You'll need lots of Brake Kleen, WD 40, and other supplies.
Get a legal pad and write down each step you do in order. I then typed it into Google Docs, and highlighted them as I put it back together.
Get Labels so you can label all of the ziploc baggies. Sharpie of course.
You should try to start soaking bolts with WD 40 prior to starting and in prep for each further step. Find a reputable shop to check your cylinder heads, I did not leave that to chance.
The Atlantic British video and RAVE manual are both extremely helpful.
I really would get the Permatex Aviation Gasket Sealer, or similar product.
Take your time. I did for the most part, but being sped up is where I made my mistakes.
Also, you'll need tiny brushes to clean boltholes, and wire brushes to clean your bolts if you plan to reuse them. If you are going to spend time it is probably in the cleaning of the surfaces and boltholes that will pay dividends.
If everything comes off, and goes on OK, the job should not take terribly long. I had some broken bolts, and bad weather that stalled me. Waiting for parts is a killer, but it got my engine bay and other parts cleaned and restored in some cases.
You'll need lots of Brake Kleen, WD 40, and other supplies.
Get a legal pad and write down each step you do in order. I then typed it into Google Docs, and highlighted them as I put it back together.
Get Labels so you can label all of the ziploc baggies. Sharpie of course.
You should try to start soaking bolts with WD 40 prior to starting and in prep for each further step. Find a reputable shop to check your cylinder heads, I did not leave that to chance.
The Atlantic British video and RAVE manual are both extremely helpful.
I really would get the Permatex Aviation Gasket Sealer, or similar product.
Take your time. I did for the most part, but being sped up is where I made my mistakes.
Also, you'll need tiny brushes to clean boltholes, and wire brushes to clean your bolts if you plan to reuse them. If you are going to spend time it is probably in the cleaning of the surfaces and boltholes that will pay dividends.
If everything comes off, and goes on OK, the job should not take terribly long. I had some broken bolts, and bad weather that stalled me. Waiting for parts is a killer, but it got my engine bay and other parts cleaned and restored in some cases.
Last edited by CollieRover; Jun 20, 2018 at 11:04 AM.
Recovery Vehicle
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 1,238
Likes: 240
From: Alabama + Vegas + Texas
You pressure test your block to find cracks. Here's an example of a pressure test showing a failed block repair:
Once you have a block that pressure tests ok, you check the block under the heads for flatness. If you can't slide a .001 feeler gauge under your straight edge on top of your block then go for it!
Deck your heads. Then spray carb cleaner into the intake and exhaust ports on your heads to see if any of your intake or exhaust valves leak. Lap any that leak until they don't leak.
This is also your best time to replace your valve seals (they can leak oil when old).
I'm a huge fan of ARP studs instead of the stretch bolts that come with the head gasket kits.
Ditto for the all-metal Cometic head gaskets (about $200 for a pair) instead of the mostly silicon plus some metal ring head gaskets that sell for about $9 on sale at Rock Auto.
That's an enormous difference in cost for materials, but how many times do you really want to pull your heads?!
Once you have a block that pressure tests ok, you check the block under the heads for flatness. If you can't slide a .001 feeler gauge under your straight edge on top of your block then go for it!
Deck your heads. Then spray carb cleaner into the intake and exhaust ports on your heads to see if any of your intake or exhaust valves leak. Lap any that leak until they don't leak.
This is also your best time to replace your valve seals (they can leak oil when old).
I'm a huge fan of ARP studs instead of the stretch bolts that come with the head gasket kits.
Ditto for the all-metal Cometic head gaskets (about $200 for a pair) instead of the mostly silicon plus some metal ring head gaskets that sell for about $9 on sale at Rock Auto.
That's an enormous difference in cost for materials, but how many times do you really want to pull your heads?!
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