Engine woes and possible budget rebuild.
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Camel Trophy
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 4,743
Likes: 985
From: Southwestern Virginia
Alright, for those who are interested here is the copy/paste of everything that has been discussed as of yet.
Back at it again. I had a couple hours so I tore back into Frankie. Good news and bad news. Good news; I found a nicked o-ring on the oil pickup tube. Hopefully that will cure some issues. Bad news; found lots of bearing material in the bottom of the pan. Even if this fixes the oil pressure, life of the engine has been greatly decreased. Hopefully it doesn't need new bearing immediately. Pplleeaasseeeee no rod knock. Bright side, the cam still looks good from beneath and no sign of movement from the new cam bearings.
I'll report back tomorrow when I get the pressure relief valve reinstalled and what-knot.
I'll report back tomorrow when I get the pressure relief valve reinstalled and what-knot.
The old guy. Named "Frankenstein's Monster" because of how cobbled together it really is. Been with me for... 5 years now, I think? We spat sometimes, but she'll stick around a long time.
The new dame doesn't have a name yet. The little lady wants to drive it a while before she settles on a name.
The new dame doesn't have a name yet. The little lady wants to drive it a while before she settles on a name.
Today is a sad day. Confirmed that there is a deeper issue in the engine. I got the pressure relief reinstalled and filled her up with oil. I put in a fresh out filter to confirm that wasn't the issue as well. I pulled the engine and fuel relays and cranked her over for probably 30 seconds. Went back out, unthreaded the oil filter, nothing. It's not pulling out out if the pan for some reason. I can only suspect that the low oil pressure from the nicked o-ring caused the oil pump.p to run dry and wear the cover.
Autopsy will happen in a couple of weeks. I suspect she will end up sitting; not getting fixed. The girlfriend's will get the new cam, lifters, timing set, and the heads which were decked and had a valve job done 25k miles ago. Eventually I'll pull the engine and that's when I'll decide what it's fate is to become. Ls swap? Cummins swap? Leave it built as a trail/overlanding rig? Build it into a rwd prerunner? Who knows. That'll be a ways down the road.
Of course, there is a chance I can throw a used front cover on it and run with it, but with all the bearing material I found I'm wondering if I'd even want to go that route. Maybe I'll borrow the front cover off the girlfriend's and see if that works.
I dunno. I'll keep you guys updated one way or another.
Autopsy will happen in a couple of weeks. I suspect she will end up sitting; not getting fixed. The girlfriend's will get the new cam, lifters, timing set, and the heads which were decked and had a valve job done 25k miles ago. Eventually I'll pull the engine and that's when I'll decide what it's fate is to become. Ls swap? Cummins swap? Leave it built as a trail/overlanding rig? Build it into a rwd prerunner? Who knows. That'll be a ways down the road.
Of course, there is a chance I can throw a used front cover on it and run with it, but with all the bearing material I found I'm wondering if I'd even want to go that route. Maybe I'll borrow the front cover off the girlfriend's and see if that works.
I dunno. I'll keep you guys updated one way or another.
Bummer, Alex. You could pull off a quick and dirty rebuild?
Main bearings $30
Rod bearings $30
Connecting rod bolts $40
Piston rings $60 (optional)
Front cover? $300
Gaskets, seals $30
I think that's all off the top of my memory. No special tools or skill needed really other than some plastigage, feeler gauge, engine hoist + leveler. Heck you could even do the bearings with engine in situ, but it wouldn't be fun
Main bearings $30
Rod bearings $30
Connecting rod bolts $40
Piston rings $60 (optional)
Front cover? $300
Gaskets, seals $30
I think that's all off the top of my memory. No special tools or skill needed really other than some plastigage, feeler gauge, engine hoist + leveler. Heck you could even do the bearings with engine in situ, but it wouldn't be fun
Jeff, where you getting those bearing prices? I checked Turner and LR Direct; cheapest I could find anywhere was like $150 for the set. New rings would be cool. The bore looks like new, but she's only got like 110 lbs of compression across the board, warm. Not terrible, but I'd like better.
If I fix it she's definitely getting a new front cover. This one's seen better days even other than the oil pump issue. Also add to that list a $65 ball hone and a $75 head gasket set. Good opportunity to drop in those 4.0 pistons to bump the compression a bit, which would cost me bearings and rings to throw that extra 4.6 rotating assembly in the girl's 4.0. are the con rod pins press fit in the pistons on these trucks?
Also, I was under the impression the con rod bolts weren't stretch bolts, so it shouldn't need new ones. Right?
If I fix it she's definitely getting a new front cover. This one's seen better days even other than the oil pump issue. Also add to that list a $65 ball hone and a $75 head gasket set. Good opportunity to drop in those 4.0 pistons to bump the compression a bit, which would cost me bearings and rings to throw that extra 4.6 rotating assembly in the girl's 4.0. are the con rod pins press fit in the pistons on these trucks?
Also, I was under the impression the con rod bolts weren't stretch bolts, so it shouldn't need new ones. Right?
Con rod bolts are TTY, one time use.
Cheapest and best source is Turner:
https://www.turnerengineering.co.uk/...s-c102x3005626
Main bearings 25 pounds
Con rod bearings 20 pounds
Front cover genuine 245 pounds (does lucky8 sell the Britpart one? I don't know)
I underestimated piston rings.. those are actually 125 pounds
I preach turner all the time for engine parts!
Ideally you will want to inspect the crankshaft first to see if it needs turning, and order the appropriate sized bearings accordingly. Crank polish is like $40, turning it is around $100 (machinist)
Yes con rods and press fit in with a grudgeon pin. I didn't dissemble mine. Manual calls for a few special tools.
Cheapest and best source is Turner:
https://www.turnerengineering.co.uk/...s-c102x3005626
Main bearings 25 pounds
Con rod bearings 20 pounds
Front cover genuine 245 pounds (does lucky8 sell the Britpart one? I don't know)
I underestimated piston rings.. those are actually 125 pounds
I preach turner all the time for engine parts!
Ideally you will want to inspect the crankshaft first to see if it needs turning, and order the appropriate sized bearings accordingly. Crank polish is like $40, turning it is around $100 (machinist)
Yes con rods and press fit in with a grudgeon pin. I didn't dissemble mine. Manual calls for a few special tools.
Ouch. Yeah, better off through Turner then, depending on shipping. I think it was $330 from Turner.
Also just double checked those bearing prices. I was wrong. Turner has main and rod bearings for like $55. I think Buick 300 bearings are the same size though. Be neat to check.
Also just double checked those bearing prices. I was wrong. Turner has main and rod bearings for like $55. I think Buick 300 bearings are the same size though. Be neat to check.
D*mn, new bolts it would be, then.
Rings must be what I'm remembering. Man, that's pricy. Would be good to find something that has the same bore size to get rings for. I'll do some research on that front.
If the crank is in poor shape I've got another. If they're both in poor shape.... I guess that would just have to add to the cost.
Getting pricy, gentlemen. We're in the ballpark of another $600-700.
I guess I'll start with robbing the front cover off the girls truck. It's gotta come off anyway. She's getting head gaskets and such anyway, so won't be any extra work on that front. Only cost one extra gasket to test.
Man, should've ordered parts right after Brexit when the pound plummeted so hard. Could've gotten all these parts for a pretty penny less.
Rings must be what I'm remembering. Man, that's pricy. Would be good to find something that has the same bore size to get rings for. I'll do some research on that front.
If the crank is in poor shape I've got another. If they're both in poor shape.... I guess that would just have to add to the cost.
Getting pricy, gentlemen. We're in the ballpark of another $600-700.
I guess I'll start with robbing the front cover off the girls truck. It's gotta come off anyway. She's getting head gaskets and such anyway, so won't be any extra work on that front. Only cost one extra gasket to test.
Man, should've ordered parts right after Brexit when the pound plummeted so hard. Could've gotten all these parts for a pretty penny less.
Yeah, that's what I figured. And no way I'm resleeving the block. If I were to go that far I'm just getting a Turner block.
Lots of good info here:
Buick 215 Rover 3.5 Land Rover 4.0 and 4.6 differences
I haven't gotten to really dig into it deep yet, but I will.
Lots of good info here:
Buick 215 Rover 3.5 Land Rover 4.0 and 4.6 differences
I haven't gotten to really dig into it deep yet, but I will.
It's hard, if not impossible to get a sleeve wall thickness measurement of the sleeve while it's in the block.
However, they are thin.
.020" bigger is technically a -.010" thinner wall, about 2 1/2 sheets of paper thick, so not much.
But, it is substantial.
If they are boring them that much, I hope it has been done several times before...and not caused heating issues.
Aluminum disapates heat much faster than steel,
so the heat the block absorbs goes away faster than in an iron block.
However, they are thin.
.020" bigger is technically a -.010" thinner wall, about 2 1/2 sheets of paper thick, so not much.
But, it is substantial.
If they are boring them that much, I hope it has been done several times before...and not caused heating issues.
Aluminum disapates heat much faster than steel,
so the heat the block absorbs goes away faster than in an iron block.
Pro Wrench
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,617
Likes: 184
From: Lake Tahoe
Don't forget new dowty washers for the cross bolts
Cruciform seals for rear main bearing cap as well
I'd never even worked on a car before my LR, and within a few months I rebuilt the engine. It's pretty easy, just follow the manual. Really helps to actually check all the measurements (it's very tempting to say, well, **** it, and do it live) with micrometers, dial bore gauge, feeler gauge, etc to give you confidence in the work done. For the crank run-out, you can stick it in the block as a substitute for vee-blocks and use the DTI appropriately.
Cruciform seals for rear main bearing cap as well
I'd never even worked on a car before my LR, and within a few months I rebuilt the engine. It's pretty easy, just follow the manual. Really helps to actually check all the measurements (it's very tempting to say, well, **** it, and do it live) with micrometers, dial bore gauge, feeler gauge, etc to give you confidence in the work done. For the crank run-out, you can stick it in the block as a substitute for vee-blocks and use the DTI appropriately.
Thread Starter
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Camel Trophy
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 4,743
Likes: 985
From: Southwestern Virginia
10 of those washers, yeah? Looks like they don't have to be application specific. I'll pick some up at the auto parts store in bulk.
and 2 Cruciform seals?
Right now, here's what I'm looking at. I'll do more price comparison shortly.
From Rock Auto: $27 for Exhaust gaskets, head gaskets, water pump gasket.
From Turner: $177 for bearings, bolts, valley pan, cruciform seals
plus: $76 for shipping across the lake
From eBay: $62 for rings
Plus a front cover on top of that. $270 if the one on eBay doesn't sell before I can get it. $330 if it does.
Grand total: $672. Ouch. The search continues.
Oh, I forgot the $60 ball hone.
and 2 Cruciform seals?
Right now, here's what I'm looking at. I'll do more price comparison shortly.
From Rock Auto: $27 for Exhaust gaskets, head gaskets, water pump gasket.
From Turner: $177 for bearings, bolts, valley pan, cruciform seals
plus: $76 for shipping across the lake
From eBay: $62 for rings
Plus a front cover on top of that. $270 if the one on eBay doesn't sell before I can get it. $330 if it does.
Grand total: $672. Ouch. The search continues.
Oh, I forgot the $60 ball hone.
Thread Starter
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Camel Trophy
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 4,743
Likes: 985
From: Southwestern Virginia
Ok, update. Cost cutting has worked. It looks like it actually pays me not to get anything from Turner, unfortunately.
From Lucky 8: $76 for Main bearings, Con rod bearings, front cover gasket, and cruciform seals.
From Rock Auto: $78 for Exhaust, head, water pump gaskets, valley pan, and head bolts
And from eBay: $201 for ball hone, piston rings, and con rod bolts.
Again, front cover is up in the air. I'll add $270 for the one on eBay.
That brings us to $625. If you include the ball hone above, that's $100 less.
From Lucky 8: $76 for Main bearings, Con rod bearings, front cover gasket, and cruciform seals.
From Rock Auto: $78 for Exhaust, head, water pump gaskets, valley pan, and head bolts
And from eBay: $201 for ball hone, piston rings, and con rod bolts.
Again, front cover is up in the air. I'll add $270 for the one on eBay.
That brings us to $625. If you include the ball hone above, that's $100 less.
Recovery Vehicle
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 1,238
Likes: 240
From: Alabama + Vegas + Texas
Ok, update. Cost cutting has worked. It looks like it actually pays me not to get anything from Turner, unfortunately.
From Lucky 8: $76 for Main bearings, Con rod bearings, front cover gasket, and cruciform seals.
From Rock Auto: $78 for Exhaust, head, water pump gaskets, valley pan, and head bolts
And from eBay: $201 for ball hone, piston rings, and con rod bolts.
Again, front cover is up in the air. I'll add $270 for the one on eBay.
That brings us to $625. If you include the ball hone above, that's $100 less.
From Lucky 8: $76 for Main bearings, Con rod bearings, front cover gasket, and cruciform seals.
From Rock Auto: $78 for Exhaust, head, water pump gaskets, valley pan, and head bolts
And from eBay: $201 for ball hone, piston rings, and con rod bolts.
Again, front cover is up in the air. I'll add $270 for the one on eBay.
That brings us to $625. If you include the ball hone above, that's $100 less.
Thread Starter
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Camel Trophy
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 4,743
Likes: 985
From: Southwestern Virginia
I've done some further thinking and talking. For now I think my best option is to put the Disco on the sidelines. I'll go back to driving the Silverado and save up to fix it's front end pop and lifter tick. It's better suited for what I do anyway, for the time being.
It bums me out, but I think it'll be for the best. The little lady will get my new cam and lifters instead of factory replacement parts and all will be well with the world, for now. Hopefully in a years time or so I will be able to drop the dough and get her back on the road how I really want to; with 35s, a manual transmission, 4.56 gears, and... Maybe an engine swap. The list goes on. We'll see where it goes.
Thanks guys for all your help! For anyone else needing to do a budget rebuild; here's a good blue print. One little addition; lucky 8 has 4.0/4.6 piston rings for $75/set. That's only $15 more and they're sure to fit.
It bums me out, but I think it'll be for the best. The little lady will get my new cam and lifters instead of factory replacement parts and all will be well with the world, for now. Hopefully in a years time or so I will be able to drop the dough and get her back on the road how I really want to; with 35s, a manual transmission, 4.56 gears, and... Maybe an engine swap. The list goes on. We'll see where it goes.
Thanks guys for all your help! For anyone else needing to do a budget rebuild; here's a good blue print. One little addition; lucky 8 has 4.0/4.6 piston rings for $75/set. That's only $15 more and they're sure to fit.