Trying to remove crank and cam bolts without moving chain wheels now that TDC is set. I had loosened the bolts before, but just to be sure I could loosen them. I used the wood block method. I can’t fit the block in now without it dropping out of the engine block or moving from TDC. Any ideas? I’m not sure how this is supposed to be done with the special Land Rover tool or a powerful impact wrench, which I don’t have - although I have one that’ll do light work (3/8” drive 18V makita - tried, didn’t work on the crank, maybe the cam though). Very confused. Please help!

 

You don't need to set TDC before removing them, only before reinstalling the timing set. The gears only go on one way; both the crank and cam are keyed so they cannot be indexed incorrectly. Remove using the wood block. Place the gears back on without the chain to align, then remove the cam gear and reinstall with the chain.

 

Thank you - I just want to be absolutely sure I understand this correctly. The manual must have confused me - apparently it says to set TDC before removing the timing chain/gears and I'm not sure why. I'm guessing it's just so it's already set for reinstalling.

I won't be able to do that and remove the gears, so I guess I'll just get the 2x4 back in the engine and break the bolts loose again - shouldn't be a problem. The gears won't have the timing marks aligned, but I'll just remove the timing chain assembly even still?

I thought that I shouldn't ever turn the shafts when the timing chain isn't on, so I'm double checking that that's actually what's supposed to be done when the new gears are put on without the chain. The new gears go on without the chain, the bolts get put back on (maybe cam bolt not too tight to make removal easier), remove the block of wood, and, turn each shaft independently (without the chain) until the marks on each gear are opposite from each other. Is that correct?

Then, I'll have to remove the cam bolt again, which I hope I can do without turning the cam at all - I guess I'll try the 18V 3/8" impact wrench on it. Probably won't be an issue if I don't tighten the bolt too much while temporarily fitting the new cam gear. Then I remove the cam gear and put it back on with the chain - is it OK if the chain is dry or should I prepare it somehow? Then I'll torque the cam bolt, put the block of wood back and remove the crankshaft bolt, so I can fit the front cover, then the harmonic damper with the block of wood back in again.

I've heard that some people turn the engine a few times with a wrench after doing the timing chain to make sure it's still turning - I guess I'll do that? The spark plugs are still in and it's tough to turn it, but I can do it. There's a part where there's a lot of resistance. Also, I drained the oil months ago and it's fairly dry - hopefully that's not damaging anything?

From what I know, the timing must be set correctly or I'll destroy the engine, so I'm going to be very careful. I'm not sure exactly how close the marks have to be aligned - with the original chain and gears, I aligned the marks more or less, but I'm not sure how perfect it needs to be. I'll do my best to get the marks as straight as possible - I've heard that one tooth of means it's a broken engine.

Is it necessary to remove the woodruff key, or maybe just to clean it and around it?

Also wondering if it's bad if the engine turns the opposite direction a bit like when loosening the bolts or going back a bit to get to TDC...

Thank you

 

It will not hurt the engine to turn it manually without any oil in it. You're not at operating temperature or at 1000 rpm.
It also is not harmful to manually rotate the engine in reverse.
The marks should align pretty close to exact, especially with new gears and chain fitted.

I really recommend removing the plugs and stuffing the holes with shop towels. You're going to want to rotate the engine after you get the new chain on to make sure there are no unusual things happening, and you might not be able to tell the difference between compression resistance and valve/piston collision.

 

OK I'll pull the spark plugs. Should the engine turn very easily, evenly and smoothly without the plugs? I guess I'll try turning it with the original chain on after pulling the spark plugs and see how it is to compare to the new chain/gears. If it stops turning I guess that'll tell me timing is off, but otherwise, I'm just going to be able to tell based on feeling for anything hitting or making noise while turning the engine by hand/wrench?

Just want to double check that it's perfectly fine to remove the timing chain assembly without having the gear markings aligned since I'll need to use a 2x4 to remove the crank and cam bolts.

Once the chain assembly is off, I'll put the new gears on and turn them until the marks align, then remove the cam gear and put it back on with the chain and make sure the marks are still aligned - am I understanding this correctly, as this would involve rotating the shafts independently without the chain.

Thank you

 

It’s fairly easy to turn the engine with a wrench on the front crankshaft pulley bolt. You do have a certain amount of friction to overcome, mainly the pistons moving in the cylinders. But don’t turn it if you have removed the timing chain. The pistons will go up and down but the valves will stay in one spot. The pistons and valves will not be timed to each other and may make contact.

 

Thank you, I think I’m going to remove the spark plugs first, then use the wood block to loosen the crank and cam bolts, then I’ll turn the crank by hand and set TDC with the chain on, then remove the assembly and put the new one on.

 

I tried removing the ignition wire and spark plugs without special pliers, just by hand. I started on cylinder 2 and the wire was tough to remove, but it came off, however, when I was unscrewing the plug, it kept feeling loose, then tight, then loose, tight, and so on until the plug broke. I removed the broken piece. I think that’s a symptom of being cross threaded, right?

Wire 4 pulled off easily and the plug unscrewed easily, but it was too difficult to remove the wires for 6 and 8. I tried twisting and pulling, but I think they’ve either got some kind of locking going on, or the plug o ring and boot wire are really stuck since I don’t see that part twisting when I twist the wire.

Any advice to get these plugs out? They’re Bosch double platinum plugs. I don’t know if there’s some locking function that I’m not figuring out? The wires are grey and I think they’re the generic wires from Atlantic British, but I’m not sure. They seem to have little teeth way down the wire, but I think that’s after the bend in the wire, so I don’t think that’s what’s locking the wire and the plug together. Maybe it’s just the boot stuck to the o ring on the plug. Will the special ignition wire pulling pliers make this easy I think I’ll try to get those locally or order them… The wrench sockets and extensions I have seem to be fine without needing a special spark plug extension swivel socket and I’m trying to save money.

I already need one new spark plug since I broke one. Is it likely that pulling and twisting the wire damaged it? I don’t know how fragile they are, but I hope I don’t have to replace the wires to get the vehicle running. I guess I’ll worry about that later and just get the front cover, sump and all the parts back on.

This is a real crisis. I haven’t had the vehicle running in almost 8 months and I don’t have another. The 1991 Range Rover referenced in my signature hasn’t moved in 6 years because of some braking problem and other issues. It’s also 2 hours away and I have enough to deal with without getting into that. I’ve had to borrow a neighbor’s car when available and I live about 20 minutes from the nearest city, so this is a problem. This Discovery is my only vehicle, so I’m not exactly doing this for fun, but out of urgent necessity. The vehicle is on jack stands in a rugged way outside on plywood plates on mulch. I don’t see any rain coming, which is good until there’s another fire, but being bitten by deer flies and mosquitoes while under full sun makes this hard. It’s an absolutely dire situation now that I won’t be able to use the neighbor’s vehicle anymore sometime this week because it’s going away. Any questions I’ve asked are so I understand what to do since I have to do whatever needs to be done. There aren’t any shops that want to deal with this around and I’m sure they’d want a ton of money I don’t have anyway with everything else going on (little almost-teardown house I managed to get in the mountains is a construction headache, totally torn apart and waiting for an electrician to deal with the panel, so I can continue and put walls back on it inside and outside, so I’m nearly broke because it’s all gone into that project, which isn’t going well at all 3 years later either). I’d really appreciate help. If anyone who really knows these vehicles can message me to advise me through some of this, I could really use the help. I’m unclear on a lot of steps.

 

Ah jeez, so sorry. What a pain :/

I use Knipex spark plug pliers to take the spark plug boots off. Some are easy, some aren't. These pliers make it a breeze: https://amzn.to/3PQ3WBf

 

Thanks, I’ve got to go for the $10 ones, but hopefully they’ll make this possible. I might spray penetrating oil on the stuck boots too.

I’d heard that when starting a vehicle that hasn’t run in a while (6-8 months in this case), some people pull the spark plugs and drop some oil down the holes, so the engine isn’t too dry. I’ve heard of using marvel mystery oil or just motor oil. Should I do that when I get the plugs pulled and if so what type of oil and how much would be appropriate? I think today just didn’t go well, but with the ring nose pliers, which I could use anyway with all the frustrating hoses, and some penetrating oil to help, hopefully it’ll go a lot better.

Does it sound like that one plug was cross-threaded (put in incorrectly)? It wouldn’t loosen smoothly, but felt tight/loose/tight/loose while unscrewing it until it broke and I unscrewed it the rest of the way. Hopefully that doesn’t create another problem. The AB video says the holes (or the plugs) are tapered in their threading, so hopefully that’ll prevent it from leaking there if the threads were damaged a bit before. Anything I should do about that other than just tightening the plug normally when reinstalling? I have the two spark plug holes plugged with blue shop cloth to prevent anything much from going down there.

It’s pretty oily around there - not sure if that’s from spilling oil when refilling or maybe valve covers leaking? I tried cleaning up a while ago. I guess I won’t clean up too much since it might keep leaking until I can attempt the head gasket job, but only when I can manage that. In these pictures, does it look like the valve cover gaskets are bad? There seems to be a lot of oil there and I think I can see the gaskets sticking out, which appear to be cracking… Just wondering.