ProShaft Front Drive Shaft
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: Little Rock, AR
Ok everyone, here's how the drive shafts are built, I'll start with part numbers:
(3) Spicer 5-153X, 1310 series u-joints
(1) 2-2-329 flange (1310)
(1) 2-3-8001KX slip yoke (1310)
(1) 2-40-1701 stub (the slip yoke slides over this)
(1) piece of 2"X.120" tubing
(1) 2-28-2867X CV weld yoke (1310)
(1) 2-26-497 H-yoke (this part connects the CV weld yoke to the flange)
(1) 1310 CV flange machined to fit the Land Rover flange pilot
About the CV flange, honest to goodness, my supplier has always listed these on my invoices as simply "Land Rover CV Flange" and nothing else. When I still built the shafts myself, that's how I ordered them.
How the shafts are built:
I always started off by installing the u-joints in their respective yokes: the Land Rover CV flange yoke, the CV weld yoke, H-yoke, and slip and flange on the other end. I used to use a big Dake arbor press that we had the ram custom machined to optimize it for drive shaft use.
Next, I cut my tubing to whatever length I need, typically 9'' for Disco II front shafts (unless a customer needs a custom length). After cutting in a band saw (or cutting on the lathe, whichever) I chamfer and de-burr both ends of the tubing. The chamfer creates a beveled edge for the weld to burn into and the de-burring is necessary for the press-fitting of our parts.
With all the u-joints installed in the parts, we begin by bolting the CV flange to its respective adapter on an Axiline drive shaft press/welder. Because 2"X.120" tubing is very stiff, I would press the tubing onto the CV weld yoke with what is known in the industry as a press-up plate. The reason for this is because if you try to use the center point to press the stub and CV weld yoke in the tubing at the same time it is a real pain in the butt and could potentially bend the tubing.
Ok, so we have our tubing pressed onto the CV weld yoke and it's resting in the cradles with the spacers under them marked 2" (sorry, i forgot to mention the tubing cradle earlier). Now, we remove the press-up plate from the machine and install the center point. We then use the center point and a brass hammer (or some other heavy piece of BRASS, no steel, it'll dent the tubing) to carefully press in the 2-40-1701 stub into the tubing. Onto the next step...
With our CV weld yoke and our stub press-fitted into the tubing, we go ahead and install our slip yoke with flange attached. Next, we bolt the flange to the appropriate adapter for the Axiline machine. What we have now is the drive shaft bolted in to the press/welder as if it were installed in the vehicle. Now we're ready to straighten up both ends of the drive shaft and inspect the middle of the tubing to ensure straightness as well.
On the CV weld yoke end, we want our measurement to be under .010" when taking the run-out with a dial indicator. On the slip yoke end, we expose part of the machined stub and take the run-out on that end. We want that end to be under .005". When we're satisfied with our end measurements, we check the middle of the tubing to make sure it's under about .010".
At this point, what I like to do is mark the high side of my run-out on the tubing. This is where I begin my welds. My theory on this is that the heat from the welding will cause the drive shaft to straighten instead of causing it to become more crooked. With my high sides marked, I link up the belt to the auto-welder low-speed motor to begin my welding. I set the welding lead up in a special holder that allows me to position the arc point exactly where I want it on the tubing, which is towards my body about 3/8" in this case because the auto-welder is turning the drive shaft away from our body and this causes the weld to sort of lay down in the crevice that we created with our lathe.
With everything welded up, we cool our welds and then re-check everything to make sure nothing warped out of spec during the welding process. If something is out of spec, we use a torch and water to bring the drive shaft back into spec by heating and then rapidly cooling the high side. We repeat this process until the run-out is within spec again.
Because I used to run a two-part drive shaft setup, I would then remove the drive shaft from the press/welder and install it into the balancer. At my old shop, I balanced at around 3000 RPM's. On that type of balancer, anything over that and you're entering the danger zone as to how fast you want a drive shaft spinning in front of your face. Balanced at these RPM's, we had very few "bring-backs", even with BIG stuff (for over-the-road trucks, etc.). This balancing speed seemed to expose all the imperfections in the shaft. My supplier, however, balances on high-speed Hines balancers which safely balance quite a bit faster.
The Axiline machine used strobes to display the position of the tubing where weight was needed and analog dial indicators to display how much vibration was in the shaft. This is similar to tire balancing. I always strove to balance my shafts at .002" to .003" worth of vibration to ensure trouble-free use. Again, the supplier I use to buy my ready-built shafts balances faster than I was previously capable. Using the positions indicated by the strobes, I would use strapping tape to attach certain sized weights to the shaft and check the effect on the dial indicator on both ends. Once satisfied, the welds are welded into place, the tape removed, and the drive shaft is again checked for balance. If everything is like we want it, we remove the drive shaft, paint it, and apply the decal.
I hope that wasn't too long for you guys. Also, I hope this displays my knowledge of building drive shafts. There are of course other procedures for repair jobs such as a weld yoke being worn out/broken, bent tubing, or a drive shaft simply being out of balance. If you guys would like, I can maybe start a thread in a tech section detailing some of these procedures. If anything, it will give you some great questions to ask your local drive shaft technician to ensure that you are getting the job done right.
Please ask me any questions you guys want and thanks for reading my post!
(3) Spicer 5-153X, 1310 series u-joints
(1) 2-2-329 flange (1310)
(1) 2-3-8001KX slip yoke (1310)
(1) 2-40-1701 stub (the slip yoke slides over this)
(1) piece of 2"X.120" tubing
(1) 2-28-2867X CV weld yoke (1310)
(1) 2-26-497 H-yoke (this part connects the CV weld yoke to the flange)
(1) 1310 CV flange machined to fit the Land Rover flange pilot
About the CV flange, honest to goodness, my supplier has always listed these on my invoices as simply "Land Rover CV Flange" and nothing else. When I still built the shafts myself, that's how I ordered them.
How the shafts are built:
I always started off by installing the u-joints in their respective yokes: the Land Rover CV flange yoke, the CV weld yoke, H-yoke, and slip and flange on the other end. I used to use a big Dake arbor press that we had the ram custom machined to optimize it for drive shaft use.
Next, I cut my tubing to whatever length I need, typically 9'' for Disco II front shafts (unless a customer needs a custom length). After cutting in a band saw (or cutting on the lathe, whichever) I chamfer and de-burr both ends of the tubing. The chamfer creates a beveled edge for the weld to burn into and the de-burring is necessary for the press-fitting of our parts.
With all the u-joints installed in the parts, we begin by bolting the CV flange to its respective adapter on an Axiline drive shaft press/welder. Because 2"X.120" tubing is very stiff, I would press the tubing onto the CV weld yoke with what is known in the industry as a press-up plate. The reason for this is because if you try to use the center point to press the stub and CV weld yoke in the tubing at the same time it is a real pain in the butt and could potentially bend the tubing.
Ok, so we have our tubing pressed onto the CV weld yoke and it's resting in the cradles with the spacers under them marked 2" (sorry, i forgot to mention the tubing cradle earlier). Now, we remove the press-up plate from the machine and install the center point. We then use the center point and a brass hammer (or some other heavy piece of BRASS, no steel, it'll dent the tubing) to carefully press in the 2-40-1701 stub into the tubing. Onto the next step...
With our CV weld yoke and our stub press-fitted into the tubing, we go ahead and install our slip yoke with flange attached. Next, we bolt the flange to the appropriate adapter for the Axiline machine. What we have now is the drive shaft bolted in to the press/welder as if it were installed in the vehicle. Now we're ready to straighten up both ends of the drive shaft and inspect the middle of the tubing to ensure straightness as well.
On the CV weld yoke end, we want our measurement to be under .010" when taking the run-out with a dial indicator. On the slip yoke end, we expose part of the machined stub and take the run-out on that end. We want that end to be under .005". When we're satisfied with our end measurements, we check the middle of the tubing to make sure it's under about .010".
At this point, what I like to do is mark the high side of my run-out on the tubing. This is where I begin my welds. My theory on this is that the heat from the welding will cause the drive shaft to straighten instead of causing it to become more crooked. With my high sides marked, I link up the belt to the auto-welder low-speed motor to begin my welding. I set the welding lead up in a special holder that allows me to position the arc point exactly where I want it on the tubing, which is towards my body about 3/8" in this case because the auto-welder is turning the drive shaft away from our body and this causes the weld to sort of lay down in the crevice that we created with our lathe.
With everything welded up, we cool our welds and then re-check everything to make sure nothing warped out of spec during the welding process. If something is out of spec, we use a torch and water to bring the drive shaft back into spec by heating and then rapidly cooling the high side. We repeat this process until the run-out is within spec again.
Because I used to run a two-part drive shaft setup, I would then remove the drive shaft from the press/welder and install it into the balancer. At my old shop, I balanced at around 3000 RPM's. On that type of balancer, anything over that and you're entering the danger zone as to how fast you want a drive shaft spinning in front of your face. Balanced at these RPM's, we had very few "bring-backs", even with BIG stuff (for over-the-road trucks, etc.). This balancing speed seemed to expose all the imperfections in the shaft. My supplier, however, balances on high-speed Hines balancers which safely balance quite a bit faster.
The Axiline machine used strobes to display the position of the tubing where weight was needed and analog dial indicators to display how much vibration was in the shaft. This is similar to tire balancing. I always strove to balance my shafts at .002" to .003" worth of vibration to ensure trouble-free use. Again, the supplier I use to buy my ready-built shafts balances faster than I was previously capable. Using the positions indicated by the strobes, I would use strapping tape to attach certain sized weights to the shaft and check the effect on the dial indicator on both ends. Once satisfied, the welds are welded into place, the tape removed, and the drive shaft is again checked for balance. If everything is like we want it, we remove the drive shaft, paint it, and apply the decal.
I hope that wasn't too long for you guys. Also, I hope this displays my knowledge of building drive shafts. There are of course other procedures for repair jobs such as a weld yoke being worn out/broken, bent tubing, or a drive shaft simply being out of balance. If you guys would like, I can maybe start a thread in a tech section detailing some of these procedures. If anything, it will give you some great questions to ask your local drive shaft technician to ensure that you are getting the job done right.
Please ask me any questions you guys want and thanks for reading my post!
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: Little Rock, AR
Having detailed the drive shaft building process, let me fill you guys in on what I plan to do moving forward. Since the response has been so huge from customers, I plan to keep selling ready-built drive shafts until I can open a manufacturing facility of my own. My goal is to primarily conduct internet sales and build brand new drive shafts as opposed to working on big truck drive shafts. I've broken a couple of fingers working on big drive shafts and on March 30th of 2012, I cut tip of my right ring finger off working on a big sand blower drive shaft (I'll upload the pic of it sewn back on if somebody shows me how).
I want this machine:
Shaftmaker G3
Having the capability of non-contact, computerized balancing will allow me to really up my game in regards to speed and accuracy of builds.
I want this lathe:
Hollow Spindle Lathes (the last one on the page)
I know the owner, Dick Dial, of rldial.com and he makes really awesome lathes with really tight, precise compounds. He's been a huge inspiration to me since I went into business for myself.
Once I have my own equipment, this will cut way down on my labor overhead. I've already got parts suppliers lined up (as evidenced by my ability to sell drive shafts). Again, thanks for reading and I hope this clears up most questions.
I want this machine:
Shaftmaker G3
Having the capability of non-contact, computerized balancing will allow me to really up my game in regards to speed and accuracy of builds.
I want this lathe:
Hollow Spindle Lathes (the last one on the page)
I know the owner, Dick Dial, of rldial.com and he makes really awesome lathes with really tight, precise compounds. He's been a huge inspiration to me since I went into business for myself.
Once I have my own equipment, this will cut way down on my labor overhead. I've already got parts suppliers lined up (as evidenced by my ability to sell drive shafts). Again, thanks for reading and I hope this clears up most questions.
Three Wheeling
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 69
Likes: 1
ok...your digging a hole that you don't need to...stop posting, its making you look bad
in post #50:
"I am not building these shafts myself yet but I can describe the process in detail"
in post #51 you said:
"When I still built the shafts myself, that's how I ordered them." and continue to describe the build process, as if you were building them, which, your not
In post #52:
" I plan to keep selling ready-built drive shafts until I can open a manufacturing facility of my own. My goal is to primarily conduct internet sales and build brand new drive shafts as opposed to working on big truck drive shafts"
Do yourself and all of us a favor, simply state your selling a driveshaft, not making them. When you open your shop, post up with details...
and to cut the head off of this snake...the question was asked if he made them and how...should have just posted the components and left it at that
in post #50:
"I am not building these shafts myself yet but I can describe the process in detail"
in post #51 you said:
"When I still built the shafts myself, that's how I ordered them." and continue to describe the build process, as if you were building them, which, your not
In post #52:
" I plan to keep selling ready-built drive shafts until I can open a manufacturing facility of my own. My goal is to primarily conduct internet sales and build brand new drive shafts as opposed to working on big truck drive shafts"
Do yourself and all of us a favor, simply state your selling a driveshaft, not making them. When you open your shop, post up with details...
and to cut the head off of this snake...the question was asked if he made them and how...should have just posted the components and left it at that
Last edited by mongosd2; Jan 21, 2013 at 10:12 PM.
Thread Starter
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Mudding
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
From: In the Disco!
mongosd2 -
I believe what Justin was saying, what I percieved from reading the whole post, was that when he was building props with another company previously, that is how he would go about building the props.
He was showing that he has the experience and knowledge of props on all levels.
Justin has been very clear that he is a supplier for the current props but when he does branch out with his own production facility, then the process he mentioned will be followed to produce his own product.
I don't think he was diggng a hole by any means.
I believe what Justin was saying, what I percieved from reading the whole post, was that when he was building props with another company previously, that is how he would go about building the props.
He was showing that he has the experience and knowledge of props on all levels.
Justin has been very clear that he is a supplier for the current props but when he does branch out with his own production facility, then the process he mentioned will be followed to produce his own product.
I don't think he was diggng a hole by any means.
Last edited by GURU06; Jan 21, 2013 at 10:23 PM.
TReK
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,167
Likes: 87
Sadly some people are never satisfied. They have nothing better to do then troll forums and criticize fellow members. Numerous people asked for detailed specs on the process of building these shafts, part numbers, business information and whether or not Justin owns a facility or not - now he answered all that and your still winning.
Pro Wrench
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,462
Likes: 32
From: Duxbury MA
Justin - I think you did a good job describing what you're selling now based on what you used to build yourself. I don't see where the confusion is for anybody reading this.
You previously purchased the parts from a supplier and assembled everything yourself. Once you left the business, the demand for the product was still there so you contracted with your former parts supplier to fabricate the entire shaft just as you had been doing it, albeit with a more bad-assed balancing machine. Now that you have determined that the market for this product is robust enough to make building these shafts yourself financially viable, you are working towards that goal.
Thanks for your responses. This probably seems like you're being put through the wringer but unfortunately you have to undo someone else's damage regarding your projduct.
I wish you luck. I'm happy with my OEM shaft rebuilt with servicable u-joints, but if I ever feel the need to install something more stout I certainly would give your driveshaft a serious look.
You previously purchased the parts from a supplier and assembled everything yourself. Once you left the business, the demand for the product was still there so you contracted with your former parts supplier to fabricate the entire shaft just as you had been doing it, albeit with a more bad-assed balancing machine. Now that you have determined that the market for this product is robust enough to make building these shafts yourself financially viable, you are working towards that goal.
Thanks for your responses. This probably seems like you're being put through the wringer but unfortunately you have to undo someone else's damage regarding your projduct.
I wish you luck. I'm happy with my OEM shaft rebuilt with servicable u-joints, but if I ever feel the need to install something more stout I certainly would give your driveshaft a serious look.
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: Little Rock, AR
Justin - I think you did a good job describing what you're selling now based on what you used to build yourself. I don't see where the confusion is for anybody reading this.
You previously purchased the parts from a supplier and assembled everything yourself. Once you left the business, the demand for the product was still there so you contracted with your former parts supplier to fabricate the entire shaft just as you had been doing it, albeit with a more bad-assed balancing machine. Now that you have determined that the market for this product is robust enough to make building these shafts yourself financially viable, you are working towards that goal.
Thanks for your responses. This probably seems like you're being put through the wringer but unfortunately you have to undo someone else's damage regarding your projduct.
I wish you luck. I'm happy with my OEM shaft rebuilt with servicable u-joints, but if I ever feel the need to install something more stout I certainly would give your driveshaft a serious look.
You previously purchased the parts from a supplier and assembled everything yourself. Once you left the business, the demand for the product was still there so you contracted with your former parts supplier to fabricate the entire shaft just as you had been doing it, albeit with a more bad-assed balancing machine. Now that you have determined that the market for this product is robust enough to make building these shafts yourself financially viable, you are working towards that goal.
Thanks for your responses. This probably seems like you're being put through the wringer but unfortunately you have to undo someone else's damage regarding your projduct.
I wish you luck. I'm happy with my OEM shaft rebuilt with servicable u-joints, but if I ever feel the need to install something more stout I certainly would give your driveshaft a serious look.