Rebuilt engine=no start and f2 fuse popping
#31
10-04-2011, 03:16 PM
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#32
10-04-2011, 03:23 PM
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Location: Springfield, MO
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#33
10-04-2011, 03:46 PM
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#34
10-04-2011, 06:39 PM
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UPDATE not getting 12v at pump.
So, I pulled the carpet back and the fuel pump has zero volts at the white/purple wire. Both with key and and during cranking zero volts. I tried jumping across terminal 1 and 3 on the plug that goes to the interia switch and nothing. My dad helped me check the voltage at the relay and I have 12 volts on one side of the pole and zero on the other and i swapped the relays around using two different relays and still nothing. What do i try next?? What else controls 12 v going to the fuel pump?
#35
10-04-2011, 06:54 PM
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I just re-read the part Buzz posted about jumping from one side of the relay to the other. Pump comes on. At least now I know what to listen for. Very noticeable in a quiet setting even from the front of the truck. So where does that leave me? Pump comes on when jumping from pole 3 to pole 5 of the relay as they are marked on this one. This is with the interia switch connected as it should be so that rules that out. Fuses are all good still, I used 3 different relays and none of them work so isn't the relay. What else is there?
#36
10-04-2011, 07:10 PM
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#38
10-04-2011, 07:54 PM
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On the wiring diagram, the fuel pump relay's coil is connected to + 12 volts via contacts of Main relay. Main relay is connected to +12 via the inertia switch.
Both main relay and fuel pump relay depend on the ECU to provide a switched ground. So the ECU turns them on/off normally. The inertia switch is a safety device to stop the engine and command locked doors to unlock if truck is running and alarm is normal. So bad guys can ram you, and the doors will instantly unlock Fortress Disco...
Back to fuel - you have proved pump good, and relay good. The issue is why ECU is holding off the fuel pump. Let me look at that for a few minutes and post more.
Both main relay and fuel pump relay depend on the ECU to provide a switched ground. So the ECU turns them on/off normally. The inertia switch is a safety device to stop the engine and command locked doors to unlock if truck is running and alarm is normal. So bad guys can ram you, and the doors will instantly unlock Fortress Disco...
Back to fuel - you have proved pump good, and relay good. The issue is why ECU is holding off the fuel pump. Let me look at that for a few minutes and post more.
#39
10-04-2011, 08:03 PM
Pro Wrench
I just reread this. Actually, jumping the fuel pump relay as you did does not rule out the inertia switch or ECU as all you are doing is supplying direct battery voltage to the fuel pump. If you pull the fuel pump relay, with the key in the "on" position, which terminal positions on the relay socket are getting voltage?
Last edited by lordmorpheus; 10-04-2011 at 08:12 PM.
#40
10-04-2011, 08:28 PM
Super Moderator
Let us consider if you are immobilized for stealing the engine from the Rover:
From RAVE workshop manual under Alarm:
and more:
off, the LED flashes two pulses of 50 ms on, 50 ms off, every 10 seconds.
And more:
this action may also cause the direction indicators lights to flash.
And more:
l EKA with super locking on receiving good passive remobilisation exciter coil signal.
So - is the LED on the dash for the alarm on when key is ON? That would mean truck won't crank because alarm owns it.
Now other things that can inhibit fuel pump -
l Output open circuit
SO WHEN TESTING, FUEL PUMP WILL ONLY RUN FOR A FEW SECONDS TO BUILD UP PRESSURE, UNLESS ENGINE ACTUALLY STARTS.
And more:
SO YOU COULD MAKE ONE TEST TRY, AND ECU MAY HAVE ENGINE DISABLED
It looks like alarm system could have you disabled, but should show some kind of LED. Otherwise it would appear to be the ECU thinking it is still crashed, and it is not going to start the engine.
Do you have any alarm light (on or blinking), and do you have any stored codes?
From RAVE workshop manual under Alarm:
The passive remobilisation exciter coil consists of a coil around the steering column lock. The coil energises to create
a magnetic field when the ignition is switched to position II.
This coil activates the handset initiating the mobilisation of the vehicle.
a magnetic field when the ignition is switched to position II.
This coil activates the handset initiating the mobilisation of the vehicle.
Input/Output
The input to the passive remobilisation exciter coil from the BCU is a 12 volts 125 kHz sinewave. The passive
remobilisation exciter coil also receives an ignition controlled power supply via fuse 20 (15 amperes) located in the
engine compartment fuse box. On receiving these signals, a magnetic field is generated which activates the handset
to produce a remobilisation signal. This remobilisation signal is transmitted to the remote receiver and onto the BCU
to allow the engine to start.remobilisation exciter coil also receives an ignition controlled power supply via fuse 20 (15 amperes) located in the
engine compartment fuse box. On receiving these signals, a magnetic field is generated which activates the handset
to produce a remobilisation signal. This remobilisation signal is transmitted to the remote receiver and onto the BCU
and more:
A Light Emitting Diode (LED) situated in the instrument cluster indicates the condition of the anti-theft system and acts
as a warning to potential thieves that the alarm system is activated.
as a warning to potential thieves that the alarm system is activated.
Input/Output
The LED has a dedicated signal from the BCU to indicate the status of the following:
l
Alarm armed: The LED flashes at 10 Hz with a 50:50 duty cycle for 10 seconds, after which the LED flashes 50
ms on, 2 seconds off until the state of the system changes.
ms on, 2 seconds off until the state of the system changes.
l
Engine immobilised: If the engine is immobilised and the ignition is on, the LED is illuminated continuously. If the
engine is immobilised and the ignition is off, the LED flashes 50 ms on, 2 seconds off.
engine is immobilised and the ignition is off, the LED flashes 50 ms on, 2 seconds off.
l
Alarm tampered: If the alarm has been triggered, the LED flashes at 10 Hz with a 50:50 duty cycle.
l
Handset battery low indicator: If the handset battery is low, the driver's door is open and the ignition is switched
off, the LED flashes two pulses of 50 ms on, 50 ms off, every 10 seconds.
And more:
In the event that the vehicle experiences a force strong enough to actuate the switch, all the doors on the vehicle
immediately unlock. The following conditions must be met for this to occur:
immediately unlock. The following conditions must be met for this to occur:
l
The security system is not armed.
l
The ignition is on.
This same action causes the fuel pump to shut off and disables the Engine Control Module (ECM). In some markets,
This same action causes the fuel pump to shut off and disables the Engine Control Module (ECM). In some markets,
this action may also cause the direction indicators lights to flash.
And more:
Passive immobilisation
Passive immobilisation prevents the vehicle from being started unless the authorised key is used to start the vehicle.
There are only two configurations for passive immobilisation:
There are only two configurations for passive immobilisation:
l
passive immobilisation not active
l
passive immobilisation active
When the ignition is switched off, the vehicle remains mobilised for up to a maximum of 5 minutes. If however the
driver's door is opened, after 2 minutes 30 seconds, the vehicle remains in a mobilised state for a further 30 seconds.
When the timer in the BCU has expired, the vehicle is immobilised.
Once the ignition is switched on, the BCU transmits a coded signal to the ECM. If the coded signal does not
correspond to the programmed code in the ECM, the ECM is inhibited and the BCU inhibits the starting circuit.
In order for passive immobilisation to occur, the following conditions must be met:
When the ignition is switched off, the vehicle remains mobilised for up to a maximum of 5 minutes. If however the
driver's door is opened, after 2 minutes 30 seconds, the vehicle remains in a mobilised state for a further 30 seconds.
When the timer in the BCU has expired, the vehicle is immobilised.
Once the ignition is switched on, the BCU transmits a coded signal to the ECM. If the coded signal does not
correspond to the programmed code in the ECM, the ECM is inhibited and the BCU inhibits the starting circuit.
In order for passive immobilisation to occur, the following conditions must be met:
l
Driver's door closed.
l
Fuel cut-off switch not tripped.
l
Key not inserted in ignition.
Passive remobilisation
Whenever the vehicle is immobilised, passive remobilisation of the engine occurs when the ignition is switched on,
allowing the vehicle to be started.
There are three configurations for passive remobilisation:
allowing the vehicle to be started.
There are three configurations for passive remobilisation:
l
Passive immobilisation not active.
l
Passive immobilisation active.
l
EKA with super locking on receiving good passive remobilisation exciter coil signal.
The BCU controls the passive remobilisation exciter coil (located around the ignition barrel) to generate a magnetic
field which causes the handset to transmit a remobilisation signal. The BCU receives the signal and allows the vehicle
to be started. If a valid signal from the handset is not received within one minute of the ignition being switched to
position II, the BCU stops the passive coil from generating the magnetic field.
The BCU controls the passive remobilisation exciter coil (located around the ignition barrel) to generate a magnetic
field which causes the handset to transmit a remobilisation signal. The BCU receives the signal and allows the vehicle
to be started. If a valid signal from the handset is not received within one minute of the ignition being switched to
position II, the BCU stops the passive coil from generating the magnetic field.
Emergency key access
If the handset fails to operate, the engine can be remobilised by using the key to enter a unique four digit Emergency
Key Access (EKA) code.
There are three configurations for emergency key access:
Key Access (EKA) code.
There are three configurations for emergency key access:
l
EKA not active (no immobiliser fitted).
l
EKA active.
l EKA with super locking on receiving good passive remobilisation exciter coil signal.
The code is recorded on the security information card and is entered as follows:
1
Using the key, turn the driver's door lock to the UNLOCK position and hold in this position for at least 5 seconds.
An audible warning is then emitted to indicate that the body control unit is ready to accept the code. Return the
key to the centre position. It is now possible to use the key to enter the separate numerical values of the four
digits that make up the EKA code.
An audible warning is then emitted to indicate that the body control unit is ready to accept the code. Return the
key to the centre position. It is now possible to use the key to enter the separate numerical values of the four
digits that make up the EKA code.
2
Enter the first digit of the code. If the first digit is 4, turn the key to the UNLOCK position 4 times. Ensure the
key is fully returned to the centre position after each turn of the key.
key is fully returned to the centre position after each turn of the key.
3
Enter the second digit of the code. If the second digit is 3, turn the key to the LOCK position 3 times. Ensure
the key is fully returned to the centre position after each turn of the key.
the key is fully returned to the centre position after each turn of the key.
4
Enter the third digit of the code. If the third digit is 2, turn the key to the UNLOCK position twice. Ensure the key
is fully returned to the centre position after each turn of the key.
is fully returned to the centre position after each turn of the key.
5
Enter the fourth digit of the code. If the fourth digit is 1, turn the key to the LOCK position once. Ensure the key
is fully returned to the centre position after each turn of the key.
is fully returned to the centre position after each turn of the key.
6
Finally, turn the key to the UNLOCK position and back to the centre position, a double bleep will indicate that
the code has been entered correctly. A single bleep indicates that the code has been entered incorrectly.
Then, before opening the door, wait 5 minutes for the alarm and immobiliser to be de-activated. During the 5
minute wait for the alarm and immobiliser to be de-activated, the alarm indicator LED in the instrument pack
continues to flash (one flash every 2 seconds). DO NOT OPEN THE DOOR OR ATTEMPT TO ENTER THE
CAR until the full delay period has elapsed.
When the 5 minute wait has elapsed, the alarm indicator LED stops flashing. Immediately open the door, insert
the key in the ignition switch and turn the switch to position II. If the ignition switch is not turned to position II
within 30 seconds of the end of the 5 minute wait, the engine is automatically immobilised again.
The EKA code will not be recognised if there is an interval of 10 seconds or more between key turns or if the key is
held turned for 5 seconds or more during the procedure.
In some system configurations a successful EKA code entry is indicated by the audible warning device pulsing twice
for a period of 50 ms on, 200 ms off. The theft deterrent LED is switched on for 1 second, all doors unlock, the alarm
disarms and the vehicle is remobilised allowing the engine to start.
If an incorrect code is entered, an audible warning is emitted and the procedure must be repeated. Up to a maximum
of 10 attempts to enter the code is possible. After 10 attempts, the BCU will not allow any further codes to be entered
for a period of 10 minutes.
the code has been entered correctly. A single bleep indicates that the code has been entered incorrectly.
Then, before opening the door, wait 5 minutes for the alarm and immobiliser to be de-activated. During the 5
minute wait for the alarm and immobiliser to be de-activated, the alarm indicator LED in the instrument pack
continues to flash (one flash every 2 seconds). DO NOT OPEN THE DOOR OR ATTEMPT TO ENTER THE
CAR until the full delay period has elapsed.
When the 5 minute wait has elapsed, the alarm indicator LED stops flashing. Immediately open the door, insert
the key in the ignition switch and turn the switch to position II. If the ignition switch is not turned to position II
within 30 seconds of the end of the 5 minute wait, the engine is automatically immobilised again.
The EKA code will not be recognised if there is an interval of 10 seconds or more between key turns or if the key is
held turned for 5 seconds or more during the procedure.
In some system configurations a successful EKA code entry is indicated by the audible warning device pulsing twice
for a period of 50 ms on, 200 ms off. The theft deterrent LED is switched on for 1 second, all doors unlock, the alarm
disarms and the vehicle is remobilised allowing the engine to start.
If an incorrect code is entered, an audible warning is emitted and the procedure must be repeated. Up to a maximum
of 10 attempts to enter the code is possible. After 10 attempts, the BCU will not allow any further codes to be entered
for a period of 10 minutes.
So - is the LED on the dash for the alarm on when key is ON? That would mean truck won't crank because alarm owns it.
Now other things that can inhibit fuel pump -
The fuel pump relay is located in the engine compartment fuse box. It is a 4 pin normally open relay. Input from the
ECM allows the fuel pump relay to control the electrical input to the fuel pump, regulating the fuel supply to the fuel
injectors. When the ignition is switched on and the engine is cranked, the fuel pump relay is activated by the ECM,
allowing the fuel system to be pressurised to 3.5 bar (52 lbf.in
ECM allows the fuel pump relay to control the electrical input to the fuel pump, regulating the fuel supply to the fuel
injectors. When the ignition is switched on and the engine is cranked, the fuel pump relay is activated by the ECM,
allowing the fuel system to be pressurised to 3.5 bar (52 lbf.in
2). The ECM then deactivates the relay until the engine
has started.
If the fuel pump runs, but the fuel pressure is out of limits, adaptive fuel faults will be stored.
has started.
If the fuel pump runs, but the fuel pressure is out of limits, adaptive fuel faults will be stored.
Input/Output
The input value for the relay windings is battery voltage, the input value for the switching contacts comes from fuse
10 in the engine compartment fuse box. The output control of the switching contacts is direct to the fuel pump motor,
and the relay windings are controlled by pin number 18 of connector C0635 of the ECM.
At ignition 'on' (position II) the fuel pump relay contacts remain open until the ECM supplies an earth path for the relay
windings via pin number 18 of connector C0635 of the ECM. At this point, the relay windings are energised, drawing
the relay contacts closed. This allows voltage from fuse 10 in the passenger compartment fuse box to pass directly
to the fuel pump.
The fuel pump relay can fail the following ways or supply incorrect signal:
10 in the engine compartment fuse box. The output control of the switching contacts is direct to the fuel pump motor,
and the relay windings are controlled by pin number 18 of connector C0635 of the ECM.
At ignition 'on' (position II) the fuel pump relay contacts remain open until the ECM supplies an earth path for the relay
windings via pin number 18 of connector C0635 of the ECM. At this point, the relay windings are energised, drawing
the relay contacts closed. This allows voltage from fuse 10 in the passenger compartment fuse box to pass directly
to the fuel pump.
The fuel pump relay can fail the following ways or supply incorrect signal:
l
Relay drive open circuit.
l
Short circuit to vehicle earth.
l
Short circuit to vehicle supply.
l
Component failure.
In the event of a fuel pump relay failure any of the following symptoms may be observed:
In the event of a fuel pump relay failure any of the following symptoms may be observed:
l
Engine stalls or will not start.
l
No fuel pressure at the fuel injectors.
The ECM performs three types of diagnostic test to confirm the fuel pump relay integrity:
The ECM performs three types of diagnostic test to confirm the fuel pump relay integrity:
l
Output short circuit to earth
l
Output short circuit to battery voltage
l Output open circuit
SO WHEN TESTING, FUEL PUMP WILL ONLY RUN FOR A FEW SECONDS TO BUILD UP PRESSURE, UNLESS ENGINE ACTUALLY STARTS.
And more:
Operation
When the ignition switch is moved to position II, the fuel pump relay in the engine compartment fusebox is energised
by the ECM. Battery voltage is supplied from the fuel pump relay to the fuel pump which operates. If engine cranking
is not detected by the ECU within a thirty second period, the ECU will 'time-out', de-energising the fuel pump relay.
+by the ECM. Battery voltage is supplied from the fuel pump relay to the fuel pump which operates. If engine cranking
is not detected by the ECU within a thirty second period, the ECU will 'time-out', de-energising the fuel pump relay.
SO YOU COULD MAKE ONE TEST TRY, AND ECU MAY HAVE ENGINE DISABLED
It looks like alarm system could have you disabled, but should show some kind of LED. Otherwise it would appear to be the ECU thinking it is still crashed, and it is not going to start the engine.
Do you have any alarm light (on or blinking), and do you have any stored codes?