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FYI, I got some misfires after my head gasket job, used the Fel-Pro intake Gasket, and while diagnosing re-torqued them. As it is a, "cork" gasket I recommend retightening. I can't say that was the cause of the misfires, but was just covering all bases. I got about a half turn after a couple months.
My new Britpart Elbow Pipe failed and has been leaking so I believe that the Coolant is blowing back, I can see it, and giving my spark plugs fits.
I always go back and re-torque everything.
I usually let it sit for an hour or so first. Almost always get a little more turn out of everything.
I also always use anti-sieze unless the particular fastener requires thread locker.
If you ever use stainless fasteners, it is recommended to only use 90% of the torque spec too.
I always go back and re-torque everything.
I usually let it sit for an hour or so first. Almost always get a little more turn out of everything.
I also always use anti-sieze unless the particular fastener requires thread locker.
If you ever use stainless fasteners, it is recommended to only use 90% of the torque spec too.
I'm finding this to be very wise advise. Been having lots of trouble with fasteners lately, either working loose, breaking off, getting stuck... whatever. After every job now I make a list of fasteners to check and check them twice or so over a couple of weeks.
Right now I'm paranoid my main bearing cap bolts are loose as I used ARP fastener lubricant and I get an intermittent shake at idle... but I'm probably just that... paranoid. More likely to be timing related I think... perhaps the Kent cam...
I'm also starting to believe that Land rover bolts are low quality. They have a distinctive look to them - like a soft, rounded, aluminum look... and I wonder if that is part of the problem. Im starting to replace fasteners when possible with quality stuff from Mcmaster-carr. For example, transfer case to transmission bolts, the stock bolts have a 13mm head and are grade 8.8, Mcmaster only stocks the equivalent bolt with a 15mm head. Might prevent another one from shearing off in the future.
Last edited by Jeff Blake; 07-13-2018 at 10:33 AM.
I'm finding this to be very wise advise. Been having lots of trouble with fasteners lately, either working loose, breaking off, getting stuck... whatever. After every job now I make a list of fasteners to check and check them twice or so over a couple of weeks.
Right now I'm paranoid my main bearing cap bolts are loose as I used ARP fastener lubricant and I get an intermittent shake at idle... but I'm probably just that... paranoid.
I'm also starting to believe that Land rover bolts are low quality. They have a distinctive look to them - like a soft, rounded, aluminum look... and I wonder if that is part of the problem. Im starting to replace fasteners when possible with quality stuff from Mcmaster-carr. For example, transfer case to transmission bolts, the stock bolts have a 13mm head and are grade 8.8, Mcmaster only stocks the equivalent bolt with a 15mm head. Might prevent another one from shearing off in the future.
Lol, I have no doubt LR cheaped out where ever they could.
I agree on upgrading fasteners.
The other nice thing about anti-sieze is that it has a certain thread locking ability in itself.
It obviously does what it says, and keeps parts from siezing and galling together, making them easy to remove in future. But it is just gummy enough to help keep fasteners from vibrating loose, when torqued properly.
And, if your cap bolts were loose, I think you would know it by now. You would have a constant and awful knock or tick, shortly followed by sudden engine failure.
Last edited by Sixpack577; 07-13-2018 at 10:37 AM.
Lol, I have no doubt LR cheaped out where ever they could.
I agree on upgrading fasteners.
The other nice thing about anti-sieze is that it has a certain thread locking ability in itself.
It obviously does what it says, and keeps parts from siezing and galling together, making them easy to remove in future. But it is just gummy enough to help keep fasteners from vibrating loose, when torqued properly.
And, if your cap bolts were loose, I think you would know it by now. You would have a constant and awful knock or tick, shortly followed by sudden engine failure.
True story.. also a lot of the time I order Britpart replacement bolts, and they are wrong. Hex head when supposed to be flanged, fully threaded when supposed to be partially threaded... etc
I'm finding this to be very wise advise. Been having lots of trouble with fasteners lately, either working loose, breaking off, getting stuck... whatever. After every job now I make a list of fasteners to check and check them twice or so over a couple of weeks.
Right now I'm paranoid my main bearing cap bolts are loose as I used ARP fastener lubricant and I get an intermittent shake at idle... but I'm probably just that... paranoid. More likely to be timing related I think... perhaps the Kent cam...
I'm also starting to believe that Land rover bolts are low quality. They have a distinctive look to them - like a soft, rounded, aluminum look... and I wonder if that is part of the problem. Im starting to replace fasteners when possible with quality stuff from Mcmaster-carr. For example, transfer case to transmission bolts, the stock bolts have a 13mm head and are grade 8.8, Mcmaster only stocks the equivalent bolt with a 15mm head. Might prevent another one from shearing off in the future.
What you are probably noticing, when you say the bolt looks almost "aluminum", is a stainless steel bolt. Stainless steel blots are used in applications were corrosion is paramount and you want to avoid them rusting into place. And yes, stainless steel bolts are somewhat weaker than grade eight. May be closer to a grade five bolt. Nickle and other materials are added to the bolt material while manufacturing to give it this anti-rusting protection aid. However, nickle is a softer material...so...it makes the bolt somewhat weaker.
Basically, the manufacturer of the vehicle weighs out the advantages and disadvantages, and risks...when choicing a bolt type and grade. Granted, probably 90° of the bolts on a vehicle are grade five anyway...so...the risk is not really a factor. It basically comes down to the advantage of being able to remove the bolt after years of service in harsh conditions. The risk factor could come into play in very severe conditions, where a grade eight, or five, bolt was used and it partially rusted away after a few years of service. This is where stainless steel becomes necessary, even at its lesser strength...it's still better than a half rusted through grade eight. Plus, anytime you loose material...it creates a void...and this is what allows the bolt to be sheared off with excessive movement.
So, when you say..."l'm replacing all of my bolts with grade eight". You better be careful where you use them...IF...replacing stainless steel. Now, if you are just upgrading from five to eight...knock yourself out.
Quick example: Our new International trucks came through with stainless steel bolts holding the front bumper on. Someone in the shop thought we should replace them with grade eight, for added strength. Sounded plausible...so some of the guys changed them. Yep, a few years later while removing a bumper to do engine repair...they notice that nearly all of the threads on the grade eight bolts were actually rusted away inside the captive nut welded to frame bracket.
Normally, a lot of thought goes into each decision that is made...regarding fasteners. Engineers don't just throw any old bolt into the application...they look at advantages, disadvantages and risk. So, you have to do the same thing while making those same choices.
Brian.
Last edited by The Deputy; 07-14-2018 at 06:36 AM.
I'm designing a house up in the mountains and realized there are a couple of gravel roads I can take to 'commute' to the job site. Had to do a little job site flexing when I got there.
Also, today I'm finally replacing my transfer case oil - something I've been meaning to do since I got the Disco... two years ago.
Last edited by naivedisco2; 07-14-2018 at 06:48 AM.
Reason: Wrong photo
True story.. also a lot of the time I order Britpart replacement bolts, and they are wrong. Hex head when supposed to be flanged, fully threaded when supposed to be partially threaded... etc
This is just wrong, if they are sending you a threaded bolt where a shanked bolt is used. A shanked bolt is much stronger in shear strength applications, since the entire bolt is actually the size of the hole. Whereas a threaded bolt...only the threads touch the inside diameter of the hole and the inner (shank) portion of the bolt is much thinner (because the threading process removes material making the threads).
But, here we go again...probably some guy at Britparts that doesn't know the advantages, disadvantages and risk of what they are doing...and just assumes it is the same or close enough...because they both look like a bolt.
What you are probably noticing, when you say the bolt looks almost "aluminum", is a stainless steel bolt. Stainless steel blots are used in applications were corrosion is paramount and you want to avoid them rusting into place. And yes, stainless steel bolts are somewhat weaker than grade eight. May be closer to a grade five bolt. Nickle and other materials are added to the bolt material while manufacturing to give it this anti-rusting protection aid. However, nickle is a softer material...so...it makes the bolt somewhat weaker.
Basically, the manufacturer of the vehicle weighs out the advantages and disadvantages, and risks...when choicing a bolt type and grade. Granted, probably 90° of the bolts on a vehicle are grade five anyway...so...the risk is not really a factor. It basically comes down to the advantage of being able to remove the bolt after years of service in harsh conditions. The risk factor could come into play in very severe conditions, where a grade eight, or five, bolt was used and it partially rusted away after a few years of service. This is where stainless steel becomes necessary, even at its lesser strength...it's still better than a half rusted through grade eight. Plus, anytime you loose material...it creates a void...and this is what allows the bolt to be sheared off with excessive movement.
So, when you say..."l'm replacing all of my bolts with grade eight". You better be careful where you use them...IF...replacing stainless steel. Now, if you are just upgrading from five to eight...knock yourself out.
Quick example: Our new International trucks came through with stainless steel bolts holding the front bumper on. Someone in the shop thought we should replace them with grade eight, for added strength. Sounded plausible...so some of the guys changed them. Yep, a few years later while removing a bumper to do engine repair...they notice that nearly all of the threads on the grade eight bolts were actually rusted away inside the captive nut welded to frame bracket.
Normally, a lot of thought goes into each decision that is made...regarding fasteners. Engineers don't just throw any old bolt into the application...they look at advantages, disadvantages and risk. So, you have to do the same thing while making those same choices.
Brian.
That is some serious real world observation from someone with serious real world experience! An aspect that most will never realize unless they come across and learn from people like you Brian. I never thought I would learn as much as I have from owning a cantankerous contraption, and connecting with like-minded others through these forums. Thank you Brian and everyone else for passing on your wisdom, it is much appreciated.
They're not stainless steel. Here's a pic of an example next to a stainless steel bolt
Yep I am disappointed I had to use fully threaded m10x35mm bolts for the front of the transfer case to governor mounts. I don't think there's really any shear issue there though. I even contacted Mcmaster, and they don't supply partially threaded m10x35mm
Britpart doesn't make anything, they're a supplier / distributor
I don't use stainless steel for any sort of load bearing application. I stick to zinc plated or black phosphate. For example I used these beasts to mount the terrafirma bumper: https://www.mcmaster.com/#92316a731/=1dpkh3v
Yes, shear point issues would be mainly focused on your suspension, drivetrain (flexplate, drive shaft, lugs, etc) or recovery points (bumper, clevest, etc).
And yes, I didn't mean to imply that Britparts made bolts...more of a...you say you want suchandsuch bolt and a guy grabs a bolt out of the bend and says here you go...and they aren't even the same...besides in name sake...lol.
07-13-2018, 10:07 AM
