Dakota and Paul,

This is a very good discussion.

I would think of the root cause to be in one of three areas.

1. Power to the instrument cluster

2. Ground connection to the instrument cluster

3. Can Bus communication to the instrument cluster

As Dakota correctly pointed out an intermittent electrical connection can result in exactly the type of problem that you are having (And Fuseable links tend to fail intermittently but i don't see a Fuseable link for the circuit)


Looking at each failure mode independently


1. Power to the instrument cluster

a. This can be independently verified by measuring the current the the instrument cluster is consuming (it should be a few Amps but not Zero Amps)
Note: if the intermittent contact is on the power side or ground side the current will go to Zero when the connection is broken


2. Ground connection to the instrument cluster

a. See above for Power connection



3. Can Bus communication to the instrument cluster

a. There is a software update that may help https://www.freel2.com/forum/topic20...rip+reset+zero

Note: your 2008 may already have the new software, you will likely need to ask the dealer



Now back to the power connection discussion.

The instrument cluster is powered by Fuse 8.

You could monitor the current going to the instrument cluster to see is the connection is intermittent.



To measure the current I use the following meter.



If you want me to measure how much current is used by my Instrument Panel I will just let me know.

Take care

Paul



PS is the current flowing to the Instrument cluster is very stable then the problem is more likely the CAN Bus communication.

It may be easier to just measure the current rather than look for the Ground connection.

If you do find the grounding point the wire should be Black and Purple.

 

Paul G.
Sorry for the delay in responding. I have a couple of quick updates;

• I tried looking for the black/purple ground wire under the under the gear shift cover, but didn't find anything obvious. Now that I have figured out how to reassemble the gear selector ****, I will take another look in the next day or two. At this point, I have not tried looking under the center console. The carpet covers the the metal body underneath the rear portion of the gear shift, so I am guessing the ground would be forward of where the carpet starts...
• I have ordered the meter you recommended and will report back on the results. It is supposed to arrive Tuesday I believe. I had thought about kludging together something using a fuse holder and my multi meter, but decided the tool would be safer.
• I will call the dealer to check on the LTB00093 bulletin - it has been serviced there since new (except for recent oil changes),

If anyone is considering replacing the shift know on their LR2, the configuration on our 2008 is slightly different than the video.

• The leather boot is tie strapped to the bottom of the shift ****...
• There is still a white plastic collar that locks the shift **** to the column. I turned it counter clockwise through the boot to disengage.
• I had trouble reconnecting the plastic collar (my wife returned from an errand and could not shift out of Drive due to the collar falling down the shaft and hanging on the plastic shift gate below)
  • I finally figured out to put the shifter in neutral (powered up but not started, depress the brake to shift), pull the boot material around the shift **** to expose the base, then slide the collar up and rotate back on the shift **** base about 1/4 turn, before locking down the metal base of the gear selector...

Fingers crossed we can track this down...

Thanks,
Paul S.

 

Paul,

Thanks for the update.

I will find some time to measure the power consumption for my LR2 at fuse 8.

The way that I am thinking about it is this

- Fuse 8 is a 5 Amp fuse so the typical current flow should be about 5/3 = 1.6 Amps (I will confirm this with my LR2)

- If your ground connection is really bad then the current should be lower then what I measure (i.e. Extra resistance in series, V=IR, V should be constant and if R increases then I must decrease to keep V constant)

- If your current measurement is about the same as mine then the software solution will likely be the better fix

I'll post what I find here.

Take care

Paul

 

Paul S,

I measured my working Instrument panel using the fuse buddy.

with the dash lights off I measured 0.2 Amps

turning on the headlights also turned on the dashboard lights and the current measured 0.4 Amps


Note: this is a lot less than I expected

I am not sure why this circuit needs it’s own fuse


one very interesting item to note is that my trip odometer reset to Zero when I removed the fuse.


Based on this last item, the instrument panel seems to need a constant 12V to maintain the memory for the trip odometer.


let me know what you find out with your instrument panel

thanks

Paul

 

This doesn't sound like fuses or anything like that. There's too many things happening at the same time and the symptoms are too random. It sounds like the instrument panel control module has become damaged, likely by moisture causing corrosion on the board itself. I've been looking but I can't find a clear depiction of the module, I believe it is an electronic board inside or on the rear of the instrument cluster, in which case you would have to remove the cluster, open it up, get to the board (better to remove it for this) and clean it with contact cleaner and a stiff non-metal brush and/or replace it. If it needs to be replaced, you may likely have to replace the entire cluster, because I can't find a part number for it and it may not be sold separately. I have found warnings that IPC's cannot simply be swapped between clusters.

 

Paul G.
Thanks, I will let you know what my measurements are once the fuse buddy arrives. Should be sometime today.
Over the weekend, we reset the information display trip odometer to see if we could reproduce the issue. It did cause some issues - We saw the low fuel light flash and the navigation display gas stations briefly, and then the information display went dim while the mileage and trip meter on the speedometer went completely blank. However the gauge's were still working, as were the turn signals and door locks. We have not seen the dash go completely dead since it occurred the weekend before last, but have seen issues with either the information display fading or going blank along with the speedometer mileage/trip meter going blank. Below is a picture (my wife took it while I was driving)...


flybd5 - thanks for the research. I am hoping the dash cluster doesn't need to be replaced - I also found the warnings and was told by an online company that does instrument / dash repairs that the LR2 dashboard was very difficult to replace because of immobilizer data needing to be transferred. One other note, mentioned earlier - the turn signals / flashers did not work when the entire instrument cluster was entirely dead...

Thanks,
Paul S.

 

Note: I don't disagree that what is written above..... it might be the root cause.

However the intermittent contact failure mode that Dakota identified may also be the root cause.

The important thing to remember is that Hazzard lights don't have very much in common with the instrument cluster except the grounding point.


For my LR2 I have observed the following

1. My battery died after 4 years of use

2. I was not able to start the car or to remove the Key from the dock

3. A relay in the engine compartment was clicking continuously for over 30 minutes (Likely due to the Voltage dip from the drained battery)

4. I jump started the vehicle and the instrument cluster was no longer functional

5. I removed the B+ and B- cables and allowed the car to go to Zero volts (commonly referred to as a hard Reset) and I changed the Battery

6. I reattached the B+ and B- and the instrument cluster now works and it has continued to work for the last 7 years

The information displayed on the instrument cluster is received from the ECU via the CAN bus.

I can't prove it but I suspect that the electronics in the instrument cluster stop functioning (Latch up) when the voltage dips low enough and to reset the cluster I needed to allow the voltage to decay to zero volts and then apply 12.5 Volts.


Take care

Paul

 

The only other place I would look for damage or corrosion is the central junction box. All the wiring goes through there at some point.

 

Paul G,
The measurements on my car are pretty close to yours. I didn't see any fluctuations once the car is running, though it is just parked in the garage..

• Running with lights off 0.2 amps
• Running with lights on 0.3 amps
• Power up but no start - 0.5 ->0.4->0.3 (lights on) / 0.2 (lights off)

My trip odometers (both) also reset to zero when removing the fuse.

I also called the dealer but could not get a call back from the service advisor.
We checked through the records and found LTB00173 performed in 2008 and "all software current" noted in 2010. Are LTB's cumulative somehow?
In looking back through the records, there was reference to the CAN Bus and ECU (replaced) while in for service not long after we bought the car. The issue at the time was for the traction control selector not working intermittently, I believe...

Based on this, should I take another crack at trying to track down the ground wire?

Thanks,
Paul S.

 

You should know that the schematics do not show a ground wire in the circuit for the instrument cluster. There is power coming from the battery, through the battery junction box, through the central junction box and to the IPC, but the only ground shown is the battery ground, which suggests the instrument cluster may get its ground from the central junction box and the vehicle frame.