Dash gauges, message center, blinker stop working while driving
#21
01-29-2020, 09:48 AM
Paul G,
The measurements on my car are pretty close to yours. I didn't see any fluctuations once the car is running, though it is just parked in the garage..
I also called the dealer but could not get a call back from the service advisor.
We checked through the records and found LTB00173 performed in 2008 and "all software current" noted in 2010. Are LTB's cumulative somehow?
In looking back through the records, there was reference to the CAN Bus and ECU (replaced) while in for service not long after we bought the car. The issue at the time was for the traction control selector not working intermittently, I believe...
Based on this, should I take another crack at trying to track down the ground wire?
Thanks,
Paul S.
The measurements on my car are pretty close to yours. I didn't see any fluctuations once the car is running, though it is just parked in the garage..
- Running with lights off 0.2 amps
- Running with lights on 0.3 amps
- Power up but no start - 0.5 ->0.4->0.3 (lights on) / 0.2 (lights off)
I also called the dealer but could not get a call back from the service advisor.
We checked through the records and found LTB00173 performed in 2008 and "all software current" noted in 2010. Are LTB's cumulative somehow?
In looking back through the records, there was reference to the CAN Bus and ECU (replaced) while in for service not long after we bought the car. The issue at the time was for the traction control selector not working intermittently, I believe...
Based on this, should I take another crack at trying to track down the ground wire?
Thanks,
Paul S.
Paul,
The power consumption looks perfect.
If the ground connection is high resistance then the current would be lower then what I measured on mine.
Based on your data I no longer suspect the ground connection.
If you really want to test the ground point you can turn on everything that uses that ground and measure the dash board current.
If the ground connection is bad then the current should drop significantly.
I will look at the power connections next
Take care
Paul
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ThorInc (01-29-2020)
#22
01-29-2020, 09:51 AM
You should know that the schematics do not show a ground wire in the circuit for the instrument cluster. There is power coming from the battery, through the battery junction box, through the central junction box and to the IPC, but the only ground shown is the battery ground, which suggests the instrument cluster may get its ground from the central junction box and the vehicle frame.
#23
01-29-2020, 10:03 AM
Pro Wrench
I still think the problem is in the circuit board inside the instrument cluster, where the connector plugs into.
#24
01-29-2020, 11:57 AM
I am assuming by your comments that you believe the Instrument cluster isn't receiving the CAN Bus information due to the connector.
That is absolutely a possibility.
How do we test for that?
I don't think that we can use the PID's from an OBDII scanner because that will only tell us that the ECU is sending the correct information not that the Instrument cluster is receiving it.
Having said that I am certain that my ODBII scanner will tell me RPMs.
If the scanner is displaying the RPM's but the Instrument cluster isn't then that does point to a cluster specific problem.
Take care
Paul
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ThorInc (01-29-2020)
#25
01-29-2020, 12:06 PM
Pro Wrench
No, I don't think it is a problem with receiving anything, I think the instrument cluster control board has been damaged, or needs to be cleaned. The only way to check it is to remove the instrument cluster and inspect the board where the connector plugs in. It may just need to be cleaned, or it may have to be replaced.
#26
01-30-2020, 12:26 PM
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Quick update (sorry, I thought I had posted this yesterday)
We checked the TSB's for LTB00093 but did not find any in the service records. We found LTB00173 from 2008 and note in 2010 stating "software current".
I am now second guessing what happened when the dash went out completely a couple of weeks ago. It is possible the turn signals and flashers were in fact working, but the indicators were dark because the dash was dead. By the time we pulled over and got out to check, I was attempting to restart the car when the dash came back to life. Sorry for the confusion.
The service appointment is Monday - I will let you all know what the dealer has to say...
I have thought about pulling the instrument cluster to inspect the connectors and the boards. It doesn't look too involved, but I probably won't get to it before Monday.
Thanks Paul G, Flybd5 and everyone else for the help so far. I appreciate it!
We checked the TSB's for LTB00093 but did not find any in the service records. We found LTB00173 from 2008 and note in 2010 stating "software current".
I am now second guessing what happened when the dash went out completely a couple of weeks ago. It is possible the turn signals and flashers were in fact working, but the indicators were dark because the dash was dead. By the time we pulled over and got out to check, I was attempting to restart the car when the dash came back to life. Sorry for the confusion.
The service appointment is Monday - I will let you all know what the dealer has to say...
I have thought about pulling the instrument cluster to inspect the connectors and the boards. It doesn't look too involved, but I probably won't get to it before Monday.
Thanks Paul G, Flybd5 and everyone else for the help so far. I appreciate it!
#27
01-30-2020, 12:29 PM
Pro Wrench
I would be amazed if the problem was in any software. I used to develop firmware for military applications. Corrupted firmware usually causes a lockup as a symptom, not random errors like this. Pulling the instrument cluster and cleaning the connector and contacts, as well as the board with contact cleaner spray, has more of a chance of fixing the problem than checking any software updates, IMHO.
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ThorInc (01-30-2020)
#28
02-02-2020, 03:47 PM
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..I tried to remove the instrument cluster following this Freelander 2 video. I got stuck trying to remove the bottom portion of the instrument cluster surround and eventually gave up after hearing things breaking or popping off (perhaps a spring clip). At this point, I am going to see what the dealer has to say tomorrow (the appointment was scheduled a couple of weeks ago)... I was hopeful that cleaning the connector and circuit board as recommended by flybd5 would have helped - I doubt the dealer will go this route.
If anything comes from the dealer visit, I will update the thread.
Thank you Paul G and flybd5 for your help. I appreciate it!
Updated with correct link (hopefully)
Paul S.
If anything comes from the dealer visit, I will update the thread.
Thank you Paul G and flybd5 for your help. I appreciate it!
Updated with correct link (hopefully)
Paul S.
Last edited by Paul Streicher; 02-05-2020 at 02:44 PM.
#30
02-07-2020, 01:24 PM
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Well, the dealer diagnosed the problem as a bad instrument cluster. They quoted me a new cluster (ouch), plus 5 hours of labor to install and reprogram the cluster (double ouch).
I called a local independent LR mechanic who quoted me 2 hours for the install, reprogramming. (So apparently, it is possible for a non-dealer to reprogram the LR2 instrument cluster, and would possibly be an option for a used/repaired instrument cluster swap...).
I relayed this back to the dealer service agent who said something to the effect "I would go that route" then later called me back to say he had made a mistake and that the labor 2 was 1 hour for the install and 1 hour for reprogramming. He apologized and offered 10% on the service, so I decided to move forward. The cluster is coming from the UK, so it will be a week or two before I can confirm this was the actual fix.
One more update - since the dealer visit, the instrument cluster is now "rebooting" every two minutes or so while driving. Beep>System Check in Progress>Low Fuel Light>Gauges go to zero then reset. I have a call into the dealer to see what they did when diagnosing the problem and how that could have made the issue worse than before. At least now it is easier to reproduce the problem...
Thanks,
Paul S
I called a local independent LR mechanic who quoted me 2 hours for the install, reprogramming. (So apparently, it is possible for a non-dealer to reprogram the LR2 instrument cluster, and would possibly be an option for a used/repaired instrument cluster swap...).
I relayed this back to the dealer service agent who said something to the effect "I would go that route" then later called me back to say he had made a mistake and that the labor 2 was 1 hour for the install and 1 hour for reprogramming. He apologized and offered 10% on the service, so I decided to move forward. The cluster is coming from the UK, so it will be a week or two before I can confirm this was the actual fix.
One more update - since the dealer visit, the instrument cluster is now "rebooting" every two minutes or so while driving. Beep>System Check in Progress>Low Fuel Light>Gauges go to zero then reset. I have a call into the dealer to see what they did when diagnosing the problem and how that could have made the issue worse than before. At least now it is easier to reproduce the problem...
Thanks,
Paul S