So, I have had for a while a lot of issues with my LR3.
Mainly, the radio coming and going... On that one, sometimes it works, but most of the time it doesn't. Up until the past 6 months, when it hasnt come back at all. No power to the HU or nav screen... That said, the HU is getting 12v on the plug on the back, just not coming out of sleep I guess...

SDD (and my admittedly chinese knockoff Mongoose) tell me there's a MS Can bus problem... Lots of no communication and missing message DTCs. Mainly on the Instrument Cluster, there are some others, but not as many.
I checked the ODB plug yesterday, got good voltage and resistance on both can buses...

So, my questions are two fold... First, on the instrument cluster, do you really have to take the steering wheel out to get to it? What is really in there as far as a controller? Does not communicating with that indicate a comm problem with whatever electronics are in there?
As a result of that, SDD shows EVERYTHING on the MS can bus and MOST bus as not fitted...

On the radio, I have fought and fought it for almost 2 years now, and I'm done... I'm planning on yanking the nav, IHU, and amp and replacing it all... Probably going to do a tablet or PC interface to replace it...
One thing I'm having trouble tracking down is a good replacement for the Logic7 amp...
Does anyone have any recommendations on a good replacement? I don't need anything overly fancy, just want something that will drive those speakers as well as the stock amp.

Also, on the radio front. What about antennas?? I know the radio uses some extra nonsense for all of the radio antennas, so what do I do about that? Also, what about the GPS antenna? Is it messed with, or could I track it down and plug it in to a different GPS radio?
Any other gotchas I need to be aware of on replacing the high line system?

On the CAN bus issues, where else do I need to look? I have checked all the ground points in the cabin I can find and they all look good, wires dont pull out and dont see any corrosion. Could the fake mongoose just be reading something wrong? I would think if that was the case it would not be working at all, instead of just not being able to talk to the instrument cluster...

Any thoughts or info would be great!

Thanks

 

Communication errors are pretty common, even if there is nothing wrong. With the number of computers in the LR3 there can be all kinds of timing issues when they boot up or wake up, especially if a battery has been replaced at some point and the codes haven't been cleared since then. I usually ignore them. Clear them and see if any come back right away.

 

I noted your question regarding removal of the instrument cluster and the steering wheel.

The good news is the steering wheel can stay on; the bad news is I do not know how this comes about. What I do know is my dealer removed the instrument cluster to check that the big plug into the rear of it was still properly seated but how he did it, I do not know.

For some reason, the big plug can get loose and that causes lots of problems as the backup memory chip from the car computer located by the passenger side fuse box is located on the instrument cluster printed circuit board. If you have having gauge problems such as the temperature gauge does not indicate, that may not be a gauge problem but just the pcb connector having worked loose over time.

For you, I would suggest that every night for a couple of weeks, you put a trickle charger on your battery. The odds are the battery is OK but undercharged. You could drive to the moon and the battery would never fully charge; the only way to get the charge up is via a battery charger, and a slow one and a few days time works best.

As the previous post said, just clear the codes as best you can plus do not worry about any of them. Most will be false or a result of a weak battery. If there are any real ones, they will reappear over time.

Also once the battery is fully charged, do a hard reset of the system per below. This usually gets the radio going. Also installing a new battery or working on the starter or alternator can upset the radio and the solution is a hard reset so you may as well learn how.

Hard Reset Instructions

In brief, to start the hard reset process, open the hood but close all doors and let your 3 go to sleep - no radio display etc and no key in the ignition. This will take a couple of minutes and do not open any doors until the reset is completed. (I find that it is often a good idea to have the driver’s door window rolled down and the key in my pocket whenever fooling about the vehicle.)

Also when I play with a car battery, I remove any rings I have from my fingers, also my watch.

Disconnect the ground battery terminal from the main starting battery.
Disconnect the positive battery terminal from the main starting battery.

The reason for this order is if a wrench or loose battery cable ends grounds to the body, no arcing or other bad things happen.

(I assume that you only have one battery in your 3. If not, disconnect the others as well and leave them disconnected until after all is done.)

Connect the negative cable end to the positive cable end. (NOT the battery.) To do this, you will need a short length, (a foot or so), of light gauge, (14 to 18 gauge AWG, insulated stranded copper), wire to span between the battery cable ends as there is not enough slack in the positive and negative battery cables for the ends to touch each other.

Hold all together for about a minute or more, (at least two minutes), as you are discharging memory modules within the engine computer and elsewhere. Then it is suggested you then just let all sit disconnected for say ten minutes, (minimum five minutes), prior to commencing to put the battery cable ends back on the battery posts per the following order.

Reattach positive terminal to the main starting battery positive post.
Reattach negative terminal to the main starting battery negative post.

Start engine and hopefully none or at least fewer warning lights and the radio when turned on plays music rather than being silent.
Reset time on the radio - note that the station presets are still there as not everything is erased. Nothing much else needs resetting either.
You can also now connect up the other batteries if you have a multiple battery setup.

This is a link to a thread in disco3 re the hard reset procedure. http://bit.ly/14WXXR1

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Hard Reset

This is a link to a thread on Disco3Club re the hard reset procedure.
Disco3Club The Discovery 3 and 4 Owners Club ? Login

 

Hi Guys, the only issue I'm really seeing is an intermittent suspension fault... Doesn't stop anything from working, still raises and lowers and special programs work, just flips the light on and pops the message up on the screen...

I ask about the instrument cluster mainly because SDD is complaining about it... It does show that it's not able to get to the CCF in the BCM, which I can't decided if that's in the CJB or in the instrument cluster on these things...

The interesting thing is that none of the communication codes are causing any of the lights to come on, BUT, SDD also says it cannot determine the status of the check engine light...

But here's the deal... I have done the hard reset a number of times with no effect that I can see... Also tried the module reset inside SDD to no avail.
I have a pretty new battery in it, probably about 4 months old... In the past the only way I could get the radio to reset is by running the battery down, the disconnect and shot method never seemed to do anything. But, I could put the ignition in POS 2 and turn everything on and just let it drain the battery down and 90% of the time, maybe the horrible clicking that starts in the relay boxes when the battery gets down around 5~6 volts??, when I brought it back up, the radio was fine. I tried that again yesterday and it did nothing... The new battery is a 1200 cranking amp AGM deep cycle in it the last time I had to replace it as I was tired of having battery trouble... I have read some places that a battery that is not an exact match to OEM can cause issues, is that correct?

On the comm errors, there are lots of them, and most of them are hard codes, nothing seems to clear them... I am getting lost messages, invalid messages, lost communication, just about every comm error type that there is, on lots of different modules. The most common are the ones relating to the instrument cluster, but there are some from the ABS, suspension, transmission, AC, steering angle sensor, and more... all but the instrument cluster messages seem to be fairly random...

SDD says the HS bus is good but the MS bus is having issues... I will go out later and hook up SDD again and dump a list of codes to post in case seeing the exact codes brings something to mind for anybody...

Overall there's just LOTS of weird electrical stuff... The on-wheel buttons for cruise control work when they feel like it, as did the radio buttons when the radio was working... When the radio was still coming and going, whenever it would cut out (mainly while I was sitting in the car with it running...) there would always be a loud pop from the speakers when it went off... No power or lights on the IHU or NAV screen, none of the voice or phone buttons do anything either. The truck has always been horrible on brake lights and tail lights, BUT since the new battery, I haven't had one burn out, also havent had the radio work either.

The one thing that really bugs me about what SDD is showing on the network communication is that the CCF in the BCM is inaccessable... So I'm wondering if that has the ECU wigged out a bit? As far as I can tell, there is no standalone BCM in the LR3, is that correct? So where is the module that SDD is calling the BCM located? Is it really in the CJB?

I have a feeling that the radio/nav problem is related to whatever is causing the CAN problem, maybe not getting a wake up signal?
Where does that wake up signal route from anyway? Does it go directly to the radio from the ignition switch? Or does it get passed along through CAN?

Thanks guys!

 

Ok, one other question... Assuming I cannot get the radio to come back to life (and stay working...)

What do I loose as far as functionality if I dig out the IHU, the nav unit, the amp, the dvd for the nav unit?
I have read that the info center on the dash looses the ability to control it, is that correct?
Do the on wheel buttons route directly to the head unit? I'm wondering if I can rig up an arduino to read the inputs and pass them off to whatever I end up putting in.
What about the cruise control buttons? Do they go to the ECU (or where ever) or do they route through the IHU?

It makes me wonder though, if they do route through the IHU, how are they still working when none of the gear will power up?

 

I hate to sound difficult but you may have to go into my album related to the infotainment section and the fibre optics. The signals for all most of the components are connected via the fibre optic buss. Yes, there are normal electrical wires, lots of them, but they tend to provide power to the individual components.

The wheel buttons I think go to the car computer and then from there to wherever. The cruise definitely or GAP would not beable to use them to operate their IID.

You will have to go to the various wiring diagrams which may be shown in that album I refer to. It took me months to sort of figure out this stuff; for me it was not easy. I had to do it to upgrade my Bluetooth system as the Wiggs upgrade meant I had to add to the fibre optics cables plus fool with a 12VDC supply to one of the "radio" pins to unmute the radio.

Part of me wonders if that is what is happening to your radio - that a mute function that is not supposed to be alive has come alive for whatever reason.

This is the link to the infotainment album. There are lots of files within it and for me, none was easy to grasp.

DISCO3.CO.UK Photo Gallery - NAV Radio BlueTooth phone and Rosen DVD

 

I think the Body Control Module words are a catch phrase for some memory location on a chip mounted on the printed circuit board, (CJB) attached to the passenger fuse panel. That chip is the main memory chip for the vehicle; the chip on the instrument panel pcb is the backup. Both have the vehicle VIN imprinted and it seems it is read only and not erasable or rewrite-able.

This is why you normally end up purchasing new from Land Rover either the CJB pcb board and or the Instrument Cluster pcb as opposed to going to a junk yard and getting one from a similar vehicle. The vehicle VIN is then programmed into the new pcb along with the backup or default Car Configuration File.
As to your SDD not finding the CCF, you definitely have a CCF and I would suggest all is OK for the most part. The problem is your SDD just cannot access it.

A few years back I had an offshore Mongoose and it accessed the CCF; then something happened and it did not - some upgrade by the OEM guys. As such, I ended up getting the BlackBox Evolution.

When I did access the CCF, after much trial and error, I determined successful editing is not as simple as one might think it should be. Editing is easy, the successful bit is the hard part.

The problem is not the equipment; it is the way the software is written. First off, the software is one size fits all and is a combo of Ford and Land Rover written material. The word Jaguar shows up quite often, hence you get the idea of additional concerns.

I discovered that what will cause a code to show as a fault and perhaps erase, or not, but soon reappears is due to how the software is written and one "switch" interfering with another switch - that is duplicating or cancelling.

An example might be related to the exterior lights. You will see something like NAS upgrade lights fitted; also HID lights fitted and Fog lights fitted.

You have an HSE with all that so you click on all three. Now you get error codes related to the lights. There are I think 27 variations of those three choices and you have to find the one correct combo. Do it wrong and either you have what I call false error codes or maybe no lights.

The infotainment system is a particular challenge as there as so many variations and the coding is less than intuitive. When you add Bluetooth, it gets really interesting due to the number of choices partly related to factory and dealer installed.

The check engine light or MIL light - funny you should mention it. Initially, LR put the icon within the left big round binnacle, then later moved to the top of the right binnacle to replace one of the two park brake warning lights. Due to one of my software upgrades, now one of my park brake warning lights is the MIL light and the previous location stays dark now. This reality may be giving your SDD a problem.

Regarding the two cruise buttons, the membrane switches under sometimes need exercise due I suppose to lack of use. When mine quit, as I drive along, I just quickly rock them back and forth for maybe ten minutes each; both to them. Sometimes within that cycle, all of a sudden the cruise control engages so one has to be a bit careful. Most often it does not, but at next engine start, the buttons work again for a month or so.

The GAP people discovered that as guys who purchased the unit would suddenly find it not working; the problem was not the IID, but the cruise control buttons that were to control the IID.

I still think you should charge your battery. New, one would be lucky to have 80% charge coming off the shelf, and even if it were 100% charged, it will have dragged down over the last four months. The engine will probably start at 50% charge so that is not an indicator that all is good.

Regarding your Absorbed Glass Mat battery, if its internal chemistry is what is called CaCa, that is what the regulator within the Denso alternator is expecting to see as well as the Car Computer. Interstate MTP batteries are CaCa construction but even with the correct battery chemistry, the charging system will still only go to about 80%; hence the need for a trickle charger such as the CTEK US3300 model.

 

when I read the fault codes with my i930 scan Tool on my LR3 this main fault keeps coming back! : Lost communication with ECU ..check connections.

What exactly do I need to check to fix it ??
Thanks

 

I see that all the time and is not anything I worry about.

I think it means what it says but my thoughts are that it results from turning the engine off or something routine like that. I am inclined to think that a to us, routine engine turnoff sometimes occurs in a "ragged" or out of sync manner, and not according to how the computers think the engine, or other various systems should have smoothly shut down.

Regardless, it is a code I just routinely erase and otherwise ignore.

 

Just saw this thread, but towards the OP, the MS CAN issue is not an issue with the car, just your SDD setup.

Without a MS CAN, the vehicle will not start.