LR3 Talk about the Land Rover LR3 within.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

P0172,P01715 Too Rich!

Old Oct 16, 2016 | 06:58 PM
  #1  
Jim Gernert's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
4th Gear
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Default P0172,P0175 Too Rich!

New 2006 LR3 Owner, Purchased car at an auction, with CEL on so I don't have any background on it. It's a 4.4L SE V8 with 110K miles.

The car runs and idles great, no issues at all other than the CEL.
The LTFTs are around -20%; STFTs hover around zero indicating a rich condition
Attached is a picture of some data I pulled from the OBD. A friend suggested I pull the MAF sensor and take a look at the data, so that is attached as well.
30 seconds into pulling the MAF the system went into CL-Fault, but the STFTs were starting to correct the LTFTs, indicating the problem is fixed, but I'm not too sure if in CL-Fault its just running off an O2 table or something.

Things I've checked already:
Fuel Pressure at 65psi
I've canister cleaned the injectors
Replaced EGR valve
Cleaned the throttle body
I've ordered a new MAF - But I don't think it's going to fix my problem.

Next items on the to do list:
Have the ECU re-flashed
Any other things I'm missing for both banks to be rich?
Any vacuum leaks would normally cause a lean condition.


Thanks for any help you may offer.
 
Attached Thumbnails P0172,P01715 Too Rich!-picture2.jpg  

Last edited by Jim Gernert; Oct 16, 2016 at 07:14 PM.
Reply
Old Oct 17, 2016 | 12:09 PM
  #2  
houm_wa's Avatar
Camel Trophy
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,244
Likes: 482
From: North of Seattle
Default

Don't be so sure about the MAF not fixing your problem....usually throttle body and/or MAF are the culprits.
 
Reply
Old Oct 17, 2016 | 06:08 PM
  #3  
Boulderhead's Avatar
Three Wheeling
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 82
Likes: 16
From: PA
Default

Originally Posted by houm_wa
Don't be so sure about the MAF not fixing your problem....usually throttle body and/or MAF are the culprits.
In my experience the MAF is not typically the culprit when the LTFT is rich, because that means that MAF has to overreport the air coming into the intake.

When the hot wire is dirty it can't read all the air coming in resulting in lean long term. Long term rich most likely is stuck fuel injector or faulty fuel pressure sensor (just had this in wife's volvo).

OP.. did you measure fuel pressure with OBD2 scanner, or with a mechanical gauge?
 
Reply
Old Oct 17, 2016 | 10:31 PM
  #4  
Jim Gernert's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
4th Gear
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by Boulderhead
In my experience the MAF is not typically the culprit when the LTFT is rich, because that means that MAF has to overreport the air coming into the intake.

When the hot wire is dirty it can't read all the air coming in resulting in lean long term. Long term rich most likely is stuck fuel injector or faulty fuel pressure sensor (just had this in wife's volvo).

OP.. did you measure fuel pressure with OBD2 scanner, or with a mechanical gauge?
I measured 65 psi with a mechanical gauge.
I'm assuming a stuck injector would cause the engine to run poor?
Are the O2 sensors pre and post catalytic converter? Is the primary one located on one side of the engine to help diagnose the injector bank?
I'll let you know when I change the MAF if it gets better..
 
Reply
Old Oct 21, 2016 | 09:38 PM
  #5  
Jim Gernert's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
4th Gear
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Default

I replaced the MAF and the problem is fixed! The old MAF was over reporting! I would have never guessed this. The original MAF was a remanufactured one, replaced with new. I've attached the good readings from the MAF at idle and other sensors.
 
Attached Thumbnails P0172,P01715 Too Rich!-picture5.jpg  
Reply
Old Oct 24, 2016 | 10:20 AM
  #6  
Boulderhead's Avatar
Three Wheeling
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 82
Likes: 16
From: PA
Default

Originally Posted by Jim Gernert
I replaced the MAF and the problem is fixed! The old MAF was over reporting! I would have never guessed this. The original MAF was a remanufactured one, replaced with new. I've attached the good readings from the MAF at idle and other sensors.
Awesome news! So you just swapped sensors and thats it? No code reset or battery cables removed?
 
Reply
Old Oct 24, 2016 | 11:10 AM
  #7  
houm_wa's Avatar
Camel Trophy
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,244
Likes: 482
From: North of Seattle
Default

Bwahahahahaha!!!! Houm wins!
 
Reply
Old Oct 24, 2016 | 06:32 PM
  #8  
Jim Gernert's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
4th Gear
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by Boulderhead
Awesome news! So you just swapped sensors and thats it? No code reset or battery cables removed?
As soon as I installed it, I pulled up my live data on a code reader and saw the STFTs go in the +20% range, compensating for the LTFTs in the -20% range, so I knew it was fixed. I did reset the codes, but the CEL light came back as soon as I drove the car. The LTFTs are stored in memory cells based on RPM and load. As soon as I entered another cell the stored LTFTs were loaded and the CEL light turned on. After driving it for 2 days the CEL light went off on its own. I believe I could have wiped out the LTFTs by resetting the battery, but I wanted to make sure it was fixed, and not just cleared...
 
Reply
Old Oct 24, 2016 | 07:09 PM
  #9  
Boulderhead's Avatar
Three Wheeling
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 82
Likes: 16
From: PA
Default

Originally Posted by Jim Gernert
As soon as I installed it, I pulled up my live data on a code reader and saw the STFTs go in the +20% range, compensating for the LTFTs in the -20% range, so I knew it was fixed. I did reset the codes, but the CEL light came back as soon as I drove the car. The LTFTs are stored in memory cells based on RPM and load. As soon as I entered another cell the stored LTFTs were loaded and the CEL light turned on. After driving it for 2 days the CEL light went off on its own. I believe I could have wiped out the LTFTs by resetting the battery, but I wanted to make sure it was fixed, and not just cleared...
 
Reply
Old Apr 21, 2017 | 03:42 PM
  #10  
Tony Aguilar's Avatar
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 27
Likes: 2
From: Ventura, CA
Default

I'm getting this same issue right now...going to try swapping the MAF and hopefully mine will be as easy as yours...thanks for the post...
 
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
LRDISCONEWBIE777
Discovery II
12
Sep 12, 2015 07:46 AM
me6067
Discovery II
9
Aug 6, 2015 10:13 PM
fugazi13
General Tech Help
12
Jan 12, 2011 09:41 PM
brennera
Discovery II
9
Jun 7, 2009 08:03 AM
GregHaugen
General Range Rover Discussion - Archived
3
Dec 14, 2007 05:28 PM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:20 AM.