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  #21  
Old 08-03-2020, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by gmfain
2017 models warranty is as follows:

Certain emission-control parts, including the vehicle’s catalytic converter, engine control module and transmission control module, are covered for 8 years/80,000 miles.

FY!
Just remember, don't let the dealer tell you no, make sure it's the automaker. Those emissions parts are required to be warrantied for 8yrs/80k miles because of Federal law, not necessarily out of the kindness of their hearts. Take the lead from the 2020 manual and ask the dealer what they believe may have changed in the MY's since 2017; JLR will tell nothing and they will cover you. Sure, they can't cover you forever under warranty, but 8yrs/80k miles is long enough so that if you have a SCR or DPF related code, especially if you take it in to the dealer and have them attempt to fix it, it will be documented and you'll be able to make the argument that the problem began while it was under warranty.

You might have a little harder time trying to make that case if your 8yr/80k mile warranty expires, but let JLR tell you to go pound sand before you accept the dealer's word as the final say. Owners might also want to follow the mediation procedures in the MY20 manual, as well, as I have read some pretty nefarious actions by some dealers that are just hard to believe.
 
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Last edited by AirRyan; 08-03-2020 at 07:52 AM.
  #22  
Old 08-04-2020, 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by AirRyan
Just remember, don't let the dealer tell you no, make sure it's the automaker. Those emissions parts are required to be warrantied for 8yrs/80k miles because of Federal law, not necessarily out of the kindness of their hearts. Take the lead from the 2020 manual and ask the dealer what they believe may have changed in the MY's since 2017; JLR will tell nothing and they will cover you. Sure, they can't cover you forever under warranty, but 8yrs/80k miles is long enough so that if you have a SCR or DPF related code, especially if you take it in to the dealer and have them attempt to fix it, it will be documented and you'll be able to make the argument that the problem began while it was under warranty.

You might have a little harder time trying to make that case if your 8yr/80k mile warranty expires, but let JLR tell you to go pound sand before you accept the dealer's word as the final say. Owners might also want to follow the mediation procedures in the MY20 manual, as well, as I have read some pretty nefarious actions by some dealers that are just hard to believe.
If you have a 2017 model, they are not going to accept the 2020 coverage.

The 2017 information came directly from JLR, not my dealer.

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  #23  
Old 08-04-2020, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by gmfain
If you have a 2017 model, they are not going to accept the 2020 coverage.

The 2017 information came directly from JLR, not my dealer.
The language in the MY20 brochure all stems from the EPA (note the EPA PDF in the link below in the text from the EPA website.) I'm sure automakers don't like to be forced to make any warrantied items retroactive and that is maybe where they came in with the goodwill gesture, probably in large part due to the VW dieselgate fallout. Maybe you couldn't force them but you could certainly shame them and draw ire from he EPA.

I'm glad to see that they already agreed that the particulate filter is considered a major emission-control component because that carries the 8 year 80k mile warranty. I doubt that is out of the kindness of the automakers hearts. If I had a diesel prior to MY20 I'd still make the logical argument that it's a major emission-control component and it should thereby be warrantied as such (under the 8yr/80k mile warranty for a major emission-control component.) Doesn't sound like JLR put up too much of a fight if they replaced it for you.


The Clean Air Act requires manufacturers of light-duty vehicles to provide two federal emission control warranties: (A) "Performance Warranty" and (B) "Design and Defect Warranty." These warranties are provided by the vehicle manufacturer and apply to used vehicles as well. The warranty period begins from the date of sale to the original owner.

The Performance Warranty covers repairs which are required during the first 2 years or 24,000 miles of vehicle use (whichever first occurs) because the vehicle failed an emission test. Specified major emission control components are covered for the first 8 years or 80,000 miles (whichever first occurs). The specified major emission control components only include the catalytic converters, the electronic emissions control unit or computer (ECU), and the onboard emissions diagnostic (OBD) device or computer. If you are a resident of an area with an Inspection and Maintenance (I/M) program that meets federal guidelines, you are eligible for this warranty protection provided that:
  • Your car or light-duty truck fails an approved emissions test; and
  • Your vehicle is less than 2 years old and has less than 24,000 miles (up to 8 years/80,000 miles for certain components); and
  • Your state or local government requires that you repair the vehicle; and
  • The test failure does not result from misuse of the vehicle or a failure to follow the manufacturers’ written maintenance instructions; and
  • You present the vehicle to a warranty-authorized manufacturer representative, along with evidence of the emission test failure, during the warranty period.
The Design and Defect warranty covers repair of emission control or emission related parts which fail to function or function improperly because of a defect in materials or workmanship for 2 years or 24,000 miles (whichever first occurs), and the specified major emissions control components mentioned above for 8 years or 80,000 miles (whichever first occurs). The manufacturer can deny this warranty coverage if evidence shows that the emission component failure was caused by improper use or maintenance and not caused by a defect.

A list of these components and a description of the warranties (PDF) (10 pp, 697K, EPA-420-F-15-035, October 2015) is available on our web site. However, vehicle technology is constantly changing, therefore there may be emissions control components or emissions related components which do not appear on this list. A more complete list can be found in your owner's manual/warranty booklet. The specified major emissions control components, however, are specified in the Clean Air Act and are the only components subject to the 8 years/80,000 mile federal emissions warranty.

When you believe you have identified a defective part, or your vehicle fails an emission test, you should follow the procedures for making a warranty claim as identified by the manufacturer in your owner’s manual or warranty booklet. If you plan to have the manufacturer pay for a repair under either of the emissions warranties, you must take the vehicle to a facility authorized by the vehicle manufacturer for repair to give them the opportunity to diagnose and repair it. Note that if your regular repair facility is not authorized by the vehicle manufacturer, they are not obligated to advise you of parts that are covered under warranty. Before giving your automotive technician the “go ahead” to perform repairs, check your owner’s manual/warranty booklet for possible warranty coverage. Additional state laws may apply, so you might want to contact your state Department of Motor Vehicles to find out.
https://www.epa.gov/transportation-a...rst%20occurs).
 

Last edited by AirRyan; 08-04-2020 at 08:44 AM.
  #24  
Old 08-04-2020, 09:18 AM
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How much more reliable would the Diesel engines be on LR products if we didn’t have to worry about the dpf systems and they could make diesals run like they used to?
 
  #25  
Old 08-04-2020, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by cru_jones
How much more reliable would the Diesel engines be on LR products if we didn’t have to worry about the dpf systems and they could make diesals run like they used to?


Rolling Coal! Unfortunately, not going to happen anymore. All we can do is try to minimize the soot from our oils/fuel. DPF is here and the Gasoline Particulate Filter is already being used by some manufactures b/c of the "soot related" issues with GDI fuel systems. More restrictions ....less output.
 
  #26  
Old 08-04-2020, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by cru_jones
How much more reliable would the Diesel engines be on LR products if we didn’t have to worry about the dpf systems and they could make diesel run like they used to?
I love the modern, clean-burning diesel technology and don't miss the days of slow, coal-rolling diesels. Our JLR diesels use a low-pressure EGR systems which routes treated exhaust (after it goes through the DPF,) and runs that back through the EGR, so there is much less PM to clog up the EGR, intake manifold, and cylinder heads. That's better/smarter than the 2009 BMW 335d I used to have where it routed raw, un-treated diesel exhaust straight back into the EGR.

The key here is getting the most efficient combustion that you can, which results in the least amount of black, carbon soot, (PM), leftover to foul up everything downline. You can maximize your combustion by using the best fuel that you can get, and unfortunately, diesel in the US is relatively low grade compared to Europe, for example, (and that's before we even get to biodiesel,) so this is why a good diesel additive does nothing but good things for your diesel motor and fuel economy.

 
  #27  
Old 08-04-2020, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by AirRyan
I love the modern, clean-burning diesel technology and don't miss the days of slow, coal-rolling diesels. Our JLR diesels use a low-pressure EGR systems which routes treated exhaust (after it goes through the DPF,) and runs that back through the EGR, so there is much less PM to clog up the EGR, intake manifold, and cylinder heads. That's better/smarter than the 2009 BMW 335d I used to have where it routed raw, un-treated diesel exhaust straight back into the EGR.

The key here is getting the most efficient combustion that you can, which results in the least amount of black, carbon soot, (PM), leftover to foul up everything downline. You can maximize your combustion by using the best fuel that you can get, and unfortunately, diesel in the US is relatively low grade compared to Europe, for example, (and that's before we even get to biodiesel,) so this is why a good diesel additive does nothing but good things for your diesel motor and fuel economy.

https://youtu.be/VVW-1Ud8DLQ
im not talking about efficiency...I’m talking about reliability. If anyone that wants a truck today wants a reliable diesel that will last another 200,000 miles he gets an older dodge with the Cummins, or an old ford 7.3 L or even the older Duramax diesels before all of this environment related add on stuff.
 
  #28  
Old 08-04-2020, 11:22 PM
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Yeah, I love clean diesels, torque and mpgs. Out here in the sticks it makes sense. We'd likely had already switched to some form of e or hybrid if we lived in town but, out here plus all our trips, clean diesel makes sense for us. Sadly, 4 vehicles in the last 11 years, we do NOT know about the long term reliability either. Most of that is due to just having the Touareg for 18 mths because . . . drum roll please . . . the dealer could not fix it. Sound familiar? Was not a lemon. They just could not fix anything. So, it went to a guy in CA, his dealer fixed what was wrong, and he just drove the wheels off of it. My Cayenne TDI I sold in year 3 after I got sick because the wife did not want to drive "a Porsche". Life should be so tough, huh? But she is more reserved than I am. Now, I'm back to a dealer that cannot fix anything again. Hard to know where - when this one will go?





 
  #29  
Old 08-05-2020, 04:48 PM
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Think they get you in footnote 5, “where the filter is integral to the catalyst”. In my case, they replaced the DPF, but not the catalyst as I understand it.
 
  #30  
Old 08-05-2020, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by FormerTouaregFan
Think they get you in footnote 5, “where the filter is integral to the catalyst”. In my case, they replaced the DPF, but not the catalyst as I understand it.
It sounds like lawyers trying to weasel their way out, doesn't it?

But when would the particulate filter exist and not be considered integral to the catalyst? Physically integral to the catalyst (when is it ever?) or integral in terms of necessary for the catalyst (the C in SCR) to function as it was designed so as to limit Nox emissions? The definition of integral is "necessary to make a whole complete; essential or fundamental."

It certainly looks like the SCR particulate filter (otherwise known as the DPF) is every bit integral to the catalyst by any definition the word.


https://www.dieselforum.org/about-cl...el/what-is-scr
 

Last edited by AirRyan; 08-06-2020 at 11:21 AM.


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