2.0 vs 3.0 Help me make up my mind.
#41
11-24-2021, 11:39 AM
#42
11-24-2021, 11:42 AM
This is what I was referencing earlier about sensitive throttle (and brakes). It IS powerful enough to be jerky if you mash in response to the slight forced induction lag that happens at some points.
It doesn't HAVE to be that way, but you DO need to adjust your driving style from other throttles to which you might be accustomed.
I think the surge of power that occurs when you mash it is fooling some of you guys into thinking there wasn't power before that or that you can't get power without mashing it. Both are not true in my experience.
It makes perfect sense that a weaker motor would produce less surge and therefore less jerky response to equivalent throttle inputs.
It doesn't HAVE to be that way, but you DO need to adjust your driving style from other throttles to which you might be accustomed.
I think the surge of power that occurs when you mash it is fooling some of you guys into thinking there wasn't power before that or that you can't get power without mashing it. Both are not true in my experience.
It makes perfect sense that a weaker motor would produce less surge and therefore less jerky response to equivalent throttle inputs.
There is something about the power delivery that seems off during low throttle input situations in low rpm environments that is not present with the 2.0.
#43
11-24-2021, 11:59 AM
Recovery Vehicle
Just to be completely clear - those curves are maximum torque. The engines can deliver lower torques at any engine speed, and a flat torque curve is only important in providing enough torque across the band. A higher curve per se doesn't have any negative implication for smoothness of torque delivery.
And maybe for the P400 how the integration of the hybrid portion of the engine contributes at different fuel flow rates.
#44
11-24-2021, 12:14 PM
Recovery Vehicle
What I am wondering is how does this logic deal with the hybrid piece of the P400 engine output curve at each specific flow rate?
#45
11-24-2021, 12:15 PM
Rock Crawling
The mild hybrid on the P400 is an 48V electrically-powered supercharger with energy harvesting from regenerative braking to keep the battery powering the supercharger topped up. It's specifically designed to work in conjunction with the turbos to deliver low RPM boost before the turbos spool up. The supercharger can spin up to 120,000 RPM in less than half a second, less as needed. It's not all or nothing, you hear it spin up at different speeds depending on what you're asking the engine to do. It works very IMO. It's specifically designed to overcome lag present in almost any turbo-only application, and that's broadly what it delivers.
The following users liked this post:
TrioLRowner (11-24-2021)
#46
11-24-2021, 12:21 PM
Rock Crawling
Perhaps I'm just being pedantic, but I'm a wordsmith so I tend to focus, sometimes too literally on meanings.
If that isn't the intent, these statements seem misleading:
That said:
I get that part of your meaning. To put it plainly it sounds like you think the 2.0 has less or no perceptible lag compared to the 3.0.
We're going in circles. I'm simply suggesting that perception might be misleading and might vary with throttle sensitivity.
No biggie, YMMV etc.
If that isn't the intent, these statements seem misleading:
We're going in circles. I'm simply suggesting that perception might be misleading and might vary with throttle sensitivity.
No biggie, YMMV etc.
#47
11-24-2021, 12:25 PM
Recovery Vehicle
But your experience with TR2 is what it is because you’re driving a P300! Have you properly experienced TR2 in a P400, which is already delivering more torque than the P300 by 1500 rpm? Or considered the possibility that JLR engineers understand better than anyone the differences between their own vehicles, and if there needed to be engine-specific adjustments would have done so. You’re implying that TR2 is optimized for the P300 - and that’s most likely not the case. More likely is that TR2 is optimized for each application.
Did JLR make a similar, non-public adjustment for the P400? No idea. Also, no idea if one has to drive the P400 differently than the P300 or the diesels to maximize off-road ability?
Driving these vehicles off-road is not traditional, and folks experienced in other, older technologies must relearn some very fundamental things. Understanding how the engineers programmed the Defender helps move folks along on that journey.
Enjoy !
#48
11-24-2021, 01:11 PM
Perhaps I'm just being pedantic, but I'm a wordsmith so I tend to focus, sometimes too literally on meanings.
If that isn't the intent, these statements seem misleading:
That said:
I get that part of your meaning. To put it plainly it sounds like you think the 2.0 has less or no perceptible lag compared to the 3.0.
We're going in circles. I'm simply suggesting that perception might be misleading and might vary with throttle sensitivity.
No biggie, YMMV etc.
If that isn't the intent, these statements seem misleading:
That said:
I get that part of your meaning. To put it plainly it sounds like you think the 2.0 has less or no perceptible lag compared to the 3.0.
We're going in circles. I'm simply suggesting that perception might be misleading and might vary with throttle sensitivity.
No biggie, YMMV etc.
The linearity of the power delivery and the adequacy of the P300, and perhaps even a level of superiority in around town driving that doesn't require the full 400 horses. Many who posted don't seem to have driven both options to form a solid opinion.
That's solely the question I am trying to resolve. Going in blind with the purpose of defending
the 400 for the sake of defending the superior power output is really not the circular argument I was attempting to stir.P400. MORE POWER
P400. MORE WEIGHT
P400. BETTER SOUND (we haven't even addressed this)
P400 FAR MORE MIDRANGE POWER from 3000-5000 this motor is great.
P300. Better ride quality, in part due to smaller wheels and in part due to less weight to sling around
P300. Smoother power delivery in around town situations.
P300. Less complexity/cost/maintenance
That's where I stand at the moment. But anyone who has decent experience with both would be a welcome chime in. Before the V8 guys tell us that going 120 is far better and less manic than going 100 with the I6
#49
11-24-2021, 01:52 PM
I've never driven a 300, which is why I'm not arguing this from a subjective position - just the performance data. The P400 is simply quicker over all the tested acceleration ranges that I've seen, which means that the subjective "zippy" is an illusion.
#50
11-24-2021, 01:54 PM