New Defender OCTA
TReK
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 2,564
Likes: 3,629
From: Kirkland WA
I think they should have gone full string theory and chosen 13 dimensional suspension.
6 dimensions just ain’t going to cut it.
“Give me super-symmetry or give me death.”… anonymous CERN employee.
6 dimensions just ain’t going to cut it.
“Give me super-symmetry or give me death.”… anonymous CERN employee.
Rock Crawling
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 361
Likes: 192
Originally Posted by therift72
If I could do this all over again I would ignore your comments - your comparisons are laughable. A base Defender is not the same as a base G-Wagen by any metric.
The options on a fully loaded Defender V8 versus a base 110 is easily in the 60K range so I'm not sure what youre trying to suggest - and also how does a 626hp, twin turbo V8 Defender with 6D dynamics make a slower, less capable G550 seem like a steal at $183K? The G550 and G63 is basically the same switch gear and exterior too but if you add up all the options that dont come as standard (like the Defender X or V8), you'll be well north of 200K.
The options on a fully loaded Defender V8 versus a base 110 is easily in the 60K range so I'm not sure what youre trying to suggest - and also how does a 626hp, twin turbo V8 Defender with 6D dynamics make a slower, less capable G550 seem like a steal at $183K? The G550 and G63 is basically the same switch gear and exterior too but if you add up all the options that dont come as standard (like the Defender X or V8), you'll be well north of 200K.
The more you get away from the base Defender the more overpriced it becomes because the "options" they're adding in no way are worth the price differential. That especially applies to the V8.
So that is why I believe a G63 at $183k is a steal COMPARED to an OCTA at $170k (not in general). The G63 is a better built, higher quality truck, with more luxury and likely to be comparable performance.
Rock Crawling
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 361
Likes: 192
Originally Posted by BC-2
A fully loaded V8 Defender is $120k (Carpathian). That’s over $60k. Our perception of minimal is very different. IMO, the difference in a base 110 and a 110 Carpathian is significant.
Just out of curiosity, what do you think the OCTA should cost?
Just out of curiosity, what do you think the OCTA should cost?
Three Wheeling
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 67
Likes: 37
Rock Crawling
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 361
Likes: 192
Have you spent time in a V8? It's literally the same thing as a base Defender minus some fake suede.
And what about the cost of the V8? It's a 20 year old design at the end of its run. A P400 engine assembly with the hybrid set up is more expensive than the V8 engine.
So please explain to me specifically why it is so unreasonable to think that a V8 Defender shouldn't be any more than the mid $80s to $90k?
And what about the cost of the V8? It's a 20 year old design at the end of its run. A P400 engine assembly with the hybrid set up is more expensive than the V8 engine.
So please explain to me specifically why it is so unreasonable to think that a V8 Defender shouldn't be any more than the mid $80s to $90k?
Pro Wrench
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 1,338
Likes: 1,440
From: Atlanta, GA
Have you spent time in a V8? It's literally the same thing as a base Defender minus some fake suede.
And what about the cost of the V8? It's a 20 year old design at the end of its run. A P400 engine assembly with the hybrid set up is more expensive than the V8 engine.
So please explain to me specifically why it is so unreasonable to think that a V8 Defender shouldn't be any more than the mid $80s to $90k?
And what about the cost of the V8? It's a 20 year old design at the end of its run. A P400 engine assembly with the hybrid set up is more expensive than the V8 engine.
So please explain to me specifically why it is so unreasonable to think that a V8 Defender shouldn't be any more than the mid $80s to $90k?
Many people assume it’s created the same way as your custom house, i.e. the builder rounds up all of the costs of building it, multiplies by 1.2 or 1.25, and there’s your final cost.
Cars aren’t priced on the Cost Plus model, but on the What The Market Will Bear model. In simple terms that goes like this: “Our extensive market research says people will pay $30,000 for a small, 2-door convertible sportscar with X, Y and Z features as standard at that price. Our internal pricing estimators tell us we can build and ship such a car for $27,000. The delta is too thin so that’s a no-go. But our market research people also tell us we can sell a fire-breathing desert-runner version of our basic work truck for $80,000, and our estimators say it will only cost $1700 more to build it than the 26,000 it costs to build the basic work truck. BINGO. Build it and price it at $80,000.”
So you are absolutely correct that JLR could price the V8 at pretty much the same price as the Inline 6, which could be priced at a tiny bit more than the Inline 4 and they would all be bunched up there together within $6,000 of each other. But then everybody would choose the V8. They need a way to separate different customers from different amounts of money based on what they are willing and able to pay. It’s just like airline tickets. First class seats cost the airline maybe 1/3 more than steerage in physical real estate and amenities, but often cost 3 to 5 times as much. And even back in steerage people with exactly the same seats have often paid very different prices because the airlines are so good at charging the max the market will bear on a nearly individual basis. It’s both maddening and brilliant at the same time!
Rock Crawling
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 361
Likes: 192
Originally Posted by NoGaBiker
I agree completely with your logic. The problem is, that’s not how automotive pricing works, and never has been.
Many people assume it’s created the same way as your custom house, i.e. the builder rounds up all of the costs of building it, multiplies by 1.2 or 1.25, and there’s your final cost.
Cars aren’t priced on the Cost Plus model, but on the What The Market Will Bear model. In simple terms that goes like this: “Our extensive market research says people will pay $30,000 for a small, 2-door convertible sportscar with X, Y and Z features as standard at that price. Our internal pricing estimators tell us we can build and ship such a car for $27,000. The delta is too thin so that’s a no-go. But our market research people also tell us we can sell a fire-breathing desert-runner version of our basic work truck for $80,000, and our estimators say it will only cost $1700 more to build it than the 26,000 it costs to build the basic work truck. BINGO. Build it and price it at $80,000.”
So you are absolutely correct that JLR could price the V8 at pretty much the same price as the Inline 6, which could be priced at a tiny bit more than the Inline 4 and they would all be bunched up there together within $6,000 of each other. But then everybody would choose the V8. They need a way to separate different customers from different amounts of money based on what they are willing and able to pay. It’s just like airline tickets. First class seats cost the airline maybe 1/3 more than steerage in physical real estate and amenities, but often cost 3 to 5 times as much. And even back in steerage people with exactly the same seats have often paid very different prices because the airlines are so good at charging the max the market will bear on a nearly individual basis. It’s both maddening and brilliant at the same time!
Many people assume it’s created the same way as your custom house, i.e. the builder rounds up all of the costs of building it, multiplies by 1.2 or 1.25, and there’s your final cost.
Cars aren’t priced on the Cost Plus model, but on the What The Market Will Bear model. In simple terms that goes like this: “Our extensive market research says people will pay $30,000 for a small, 2-door convertible sportscar with X, Y and Z features as standard at that price. Our internal pricing estimators tell us we can build and ship such a car for $27,000. The delta is too thin so that’s a no-go. But our market research people also tell us we can sell a fire-breathing desert-runner version of our basic work truck for $80,000, and our estimators say it will only cost $1700 more to build it than the 26,000 it costs to build the basic work truck. BINGO. Build it and price it at $80,000.”
So you are absolutely correct that JLR could price the V8 at pretty much the same price as the Inline 6, which could be priced at a tiny bit more than the Inline 4 and they would all be bunched up there together within $6,000 of each other. But then everybody would choose the V8. They need a way to separate different customers from different amounts of money based on what they are willing and able to pay. It’s just like airline tickets. First class seats cost the airline maybe 1/3 more than steerage in physical real estate and amenities, but often cost 3 to 5 times as much. And even back in steerage people with exactly the same seats have often paid very different prices because the airlines are so good at charging the max the market will bear on a nearly individual basis. It’s both maddening and brilliant at the same time!
