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It's evident a lot of people are working hard but based on this community and the shared experiences the outcomes of those wonderful efforts are not being realized. I pay attention to the outcomes more then the effort.
For a moment wear the shoes of the customer, the people who are paying for the trucks / cars and indirectly paying all those people doing wonderful work. As a customer the truck I ordered will be delivered with less features that I paid for. JLR is doing nothing for the customer in regard to this. I've asked if customers would be made whole like other manufactures are doing and if I understood the response, the answer is no.
Another note from a customers perspective - I posted a simple question here: With the recent price increase on the Defender will the customers who ordered their trucks before the increase, but have not taken delivery, be required to pay the incremental cost. No answer yet to that. Although one person on this forum indicated he was required to. Less features and more money with no reaction from JLR to do right by the customer. The optics don't make it look like "customer first". That's disheartening as a new customer.
I've been fortunate in my life to have had many cars (I'm old ) from many luxury brands and have always felt appreciated, even in tough situations. Being a first time customer of JLR, a luxury brand, I was expecting the same commitment to the customer. I just haven't experienced it yet nor based on the content of this board neither have others.
I very much value your contributions here and it's clear you wear your JLR colors with pride.
And I know, it's up to me to decide what to do next. It's just disappointing to be in this spot to have to make a choice instead of being excited to get a Defender.
Thanks
Matt
Hi Matt,
You say you've posted a simple question here about price increases. This is not a forum that is either run or supported financially by JLR. If you wish to know about price increases reach out to us directly if the retailer does not know the answer. Corporate will always know before a retailer. We make the decision and then relay it down the chain.
In the last retailer conference it was stated that JLR would ensure that people who ordered a vehicle prior to price increases would be price protected. We've done this numerous times before on countless cars over the past decade. I remember dealing with the launch of L405 and the new F-TYPE and the drama that ensued and the price protection plans that were implemented. We've always tried to look out for customers.
As for being made whole, I'm not sure I know what you mean exactly. Apologies, but I do not read most of the posts on the forum (time really doesn't allow me). If you car does not come equipped with certain features are you asking for the car to be retrofitted at a later date to a different specification? There's a number of reasons why that's often not possible. One of the most important being that if we didn't have the parts available at the assembly plant- then we certainly don't have them available for the retailer parts department. If the car arrived and it does not have a particular set of features and you are dissatisfied with the car you may opt to decline handover.
Everyone should be aware though that for over a year ALL JLR websites around the globe have stated on the configurator that certain features and parts may not be available. We say this over and over.
That said, sometimes the salesperson does not correctly place a vehicle order because they either forgot a feature or have not familiarized themselves with the latest ordering guide. When the vehicle shows up and it's not correct the salesperson and retailer immediately point the finger at us. These days it's mostly our fault if features are missing, but make sure you double check all orders.
We accept we're not building the cars in a consistent manner, but if the choice is shipping no car at all or a car that's not ideal- we send out the car that's not ideal. Too many factory workers and office employees depend on us staying in the black every month. JLR financials have hung by a thread since the pandemic began and we're determined to avoid layoffs and downsizing if we can weather the storm a bit longer. We can't close down assembly lines waiting for a bigger screen or mood lighting or UV windscreens, etc.
People forget we're a small manufacturer and things that VW and Ford could brush off as a minor expense can completely cripple us. The public has no idea how close we came to financial collapse in 2020. It's merely because we had so many passionate people working so hard behind the scenes that we stayed afloat. I suspect a book or case study will reflect on it one day.
So Matt, please be assured that we're 100% behind our customers and we genuinely care. We appreciate your interest in the brand and we want you to be happy. Profits come from loyal customers who are treated well- not conquests. To that end, JLR will be pushing ourselves harder than ever to get things right this year.
It's never a waste of time contacting retailers about an issue. If you do not get the response or information you wish then your next step should be contacting JLR North America. All calls and information shared are recorded and compiled. If we are not made aware of a problem we cannot solve the problem and it creates a terrible cycle.
Retailers in the US are all independent franchises and each is able to behave in the manner they see fit. Some retailers in the United States go above and beyond and do not rest until an issue is sorted while others are managed poorly and focused on short-term profits. If your experience is unpleasant at one retailer try another. If your retailer options are limited and you are not pleased with the response please reach out to corporate. There is an entire floor of customer response teams and engineers in the US market whose singular purpose is to solve customer issues and feed information back to the engineers and factories here in the UK.
That said, personal or anecdotal experiences with a vehicle do not equate to what's happening amongst an entire population. While it may appear that everyone is having a windscreen problem, that may not be the case. In fact, the corporate Defender fleets used by employees around the world show almost no instances of windscreen cracking. It may be a localised problem or a specific run of vehicles.
Glass cracking can be caused by substandard glass (ours is the same as other OEM's), tension in the frame, uneven application of adhesive material, rapid heating and cooling (spraying an icy windscreen with hot water), extreme exposure to intense sunlight combined with high temperatures (glass does not heat evenly and thus can crack). Again though, we can't investigate a problem if we don't know about it.
As always, @The Insider , your response is well thought out. As an ardent fan of statistics and the hard truth that lies therein, I can't help but doubt my own premise on the glass front. A data set of corporate fleets is certainly a meatier one than my anecdotal experiences.
Simply put, after buying my defender, a buddy with a new one too, jokingly commented, "iIwonder when your windshield will crack like mine" (or words to that effect. Sure enough a week or two later, it spontaneously cracked. Identical pattern and position to his. Lower midline, as with the vast majority of the ones I've seen. Same when I met another local owner. Same crack, same type and location.
Contacted dealer, mentioned the nature of the crack and was promptly advised glass is a non warranty item, regardless of the failure's etiology.
I did not contact corporate here in America on the glass.
.....Why?, I hear you ask.
Off topic side harumph
Spoiler
Well.....after a battle with my dealer and corporate to get a replacement alternator for weeks, (made from platypus bills and black rhino horn apparently) with 1300 miles on my new ride I was a bit cheesed off to say the least.
In addition to speaking with the GM of my dealership, I did contact corporate. I also reached out to about a dozen dealerships in USA and located the appropriate used part on ebay for my dealer to use as a stop gap. All to no avail. The part was not to be had. Would not be supplied to the dealer. No eta. No info. Nada.
I received no reply from corporate till almost 1 month after the part had been finally sourced from a Jaguar bin apparently. About 7 weeks after my initial contact. I didn't care at that point, I have no idea what tree was shaken, or who finally stepped up and got the alternator into my dealer's hands and thence my truck. My perception was and is that corporate had little to do with it and that they were as useful as a wax teapot. I'm sure they do great work, but in this instance as a new buyer, a new JLR customer, I felt distinctly let down. Perhaps I expect too much
Experiencing this glass failure myself, the spontaneous nature of its happening, its position in the glass, and absence of any impact, my initial scepticism on the topic was no more.
I guess anecdotal stuff can make fools of us all. (Me being made a fool of is a low bar I guess)
It's not just JLR. 2 Taycans in this thread and there were 2 others in the forums. 4 is a lot considering the limited numbers for this vehicle.
I suppose the real question is how the manufacturer will take care of the customer. Porsche seems to be doing the right thing as they've been honoring the warranty.
Being in business isn't about being perfect. It's about stepping up when you need to and turning a bad situation into a loyalty-building event.
If he truly believes what you are about to read, Thierry should start with low-hanging problems like this glass issue. Perception is reality and not covering at least some of these is exactly the brand-damage he's mentioning.
Not an attack on @The Insider at all. You have been an asset to this forum I think it's spectacular that you're here. I hope you are treated with respect. LR should be present in the forums at least a little. I had a 2-week long airbag issue on a new Bronco that I asked others about on another forum. I was getting nowhere with Ford corporate and Ford quietly DM'd me with a solution.
Last edited by _Allegedly; 05-16-2022 at 11:17 AM.
As you mentioned @allegedly : is the perception.
I love my Defender 110 and Disco 5.
I consider LRs to be one of the most capable off-roaders, for value. Still, that does not make them worry free.
As someone mentioned, they are sort of boutique cars. Small production (compared to others), quirky at times, and prone to issues - not necessarily more than others, but the lack of parts makes them even more "fragile" and exposed.
Why I am saying that? On my other vehicle, a brand-new Disco 5, I had to wait for 4 (four) months for a transfer case, which came oilless from the factory. Stuff happens, I get it... But 4 months - why? Because there wasn't a single one in the world as a spare.
They had to manufacture it from scratch.
JLR has not yet adapted to the new realities, and they are still using "JIT". The success of the JIT production process relies on steady production, high-quality workmanship, no machine breakdowns and reliable suppliers. That world is gone! Not many manufacturers can have them all, but most strive. I fell that the windshields are an attempt to sweep this under the rug, and JLR hopes it will go away, instead of addressing it head on.
I hope that JLR will get their act together quick, and learn from their past.
05-13-2022, 03:31 PM
) from many luxury brands and have always felt appreciated, even in tough situations. Being a first time customer of JLR, a luxury brand, I was expecting the same commitment to the customer. I just haven't experienced it yet nor based on the content of this board neither have others.
