Fatal Accident..... I am removing the ABS fuse.
#41
OilSpot: Pulling the ABS fuse will prevent loss of total braking in a Discovery I due to an ABS failure. If the genius that designed this braking system had any iota of intellect he would have had it merely take the ABS operation off line and not result in a total loss of brake functionality.
If it was another cause, that could be totally different. If he was running 80 in a poorly maintain Rover and his first reacton was to grab his cellie, then he basically contributed to his own death by his actions.
And yes I do care aout avoiding total destruction of the vehicle attempting to stop it in some less than intelligent fashion. At least minimize the damage.
If it was another cause, that could be totally different. If he was running 80 in a poorly maintain Rover and his first reacton was to grab his cellie, then he basically contributed to his own death by his actions.
And yes I do care aout avoiding total destruction of the vehicle attempting to stop it in some less than intelligent fashion. At least minimize the damage.
The problem is the valves in the ABS modulator, they get gunked up and then stick open/closed and let to much brake fluid or not enough brake fluid through.
Having a default setting of not working at all cant happen because it has no idea there is a problem.
Basically ABS works like this, you press the brake pedal, the master cylinder pressurizes the brake fluid and pushes it to the ABS modulator, it then sends the fluid to the wheels, each wheel has its own valve inside the ABS modulator.
The ABS speed sensors are nothing more than electro magnets that ride over a exciter ring.
This ring has notches on it, the ABS computer knows by counting the notches how fast the wheel is turning, so think of the ABS sensor and the notches as a light switch, high spot equals closed circuit, low spot equals open circuit.
The computer then compares the 4 sensors.
If one sensor detects no movement or very slow movement AND a closed brake light circuit (foot on brake pedal) it assumes you are trying to stop and the slower wheel is sliding, so it closes the valve to that wheel thus removing brake pressure from that wheel allowing it to free wheel (start turning again), it then opens the valve allowing brake pressure to stop that wheel again.
It repeats this valve open/close at a very very fast rate.
The problem is when this valve sticks closed no brake pressure goes to the wheel(s) even though you have your foot to the floor and the brake pedal is hard.
The brake pedal is hard because you are putting the max amount of brake pressure to the ABS modulator, but it is not getting to the wheels because the valves are stuck closed. (removing the ABS pump fuse removes the power from the ABS modulator and the valves stay open no matter what allowing normal braking)
This is why it is so important to flush the brake fluid every 2 years, to prevent the ABS modulator valves from getting gummed up and sticking.
Some are more prone to it than others, all import's require brake fluid flushes every 24 months no matter what.
#42
I'm assuming the driver was called an idiot for not wearing his seatbelt. It's unfortunate he died, and certainly brakes failing and accelerator sticking are serious matters, but that doesn't change the fact that, based on the accident narrative, he would have walked away if he'd had his seatbelt on.
As for putting it in neutral, etc., yes, good things to do, but many people aren't taught what to do in situations like this and if a person doesn't have a good understanding of vehicles then you can't fault someone for being uneducated. For way too many people D=go and brakes=stop and they don't know there might be an alternative.
As for putting it in neutral, etc., yes, good things to do, but many people aren't taught what to do in situations like this and if a person doesn't have a good understanding of vehicles then you can't fault someone for being uneducated. For way too many people D=go and brakes=stop and they don't know there might be an alternative.
We're not jumping to conclusions. We're looking at facts you posted. Something seems fishy.
Brakes fail, Gas pedal stuck, No seatbelt driving next to cliffs = call 911? = not idiot? How long does it take to pick up your phone and even dial 911? Ok fine...so it said he was doing 80. If you can somewhat drive, you can hold a vehicle on the road.
Brakes fail, Gas pedal stuck, No seatbelt driving next to cliffs = call 911? = not idiot? How long does it take to pick up your phone and even dial 911? Ok fine...so it said he was doing 80. If you can somewhat drive, you can hold a vehicle on the road.
I still think putting the transmission in gear 1 would of slowed him, even if it ruined his transmission... Life vs bad transmission/death.. You chose!
#43
So after reading both articles and the subsequent comments in both articles I'm going to call bs. Yes, sad the guy died, heart goes out BUT, wtf. Like everyone else has stated, 80mph? Yes p38 but, stuck throttle and breaks go out? Panic mode but called 911?
He was driving down a steep canyon road, was he riding his breaks? If his throttle was stuck again, shift into n, cut power, never should have seen 60 if it was that steep. Being an unintelligent wild guess, something tells me it wasn't an accident on his part.
Now for your abs fuse question, if you're having issues, pull it, if you're not having issues but still are questioning, pull it.
He was driving down a steep canyon road, was he riding his breaks? If his throttle was stuck again, shift into n, cut power, never should have seen 60 if it was that steep. Being an unintelligent wild guess, something tells me it wasn't an accident on his part.
Now for your abs fuse question, if you're having issues, pull it, if you're not having issues but still are questioning, pull it.
#44
#46
With a manual transmission, is a different story, with similar results. With a manual transmission, if you are in 5th gear going 80mph and you decide to shift to 1, 99% of the time you risk getting stuck in neutral, which, if downhill, means increasing speed. The synchronizing mechanism will not allow the shift to 1. There will be a lot of grinding noise, but nothing else. The fixed gear train is moving too slow to allow the gear 1, spinning too fast, to engage. Now, the other 1%, if you pull out of 5th, go into neutral, let the clutch out, (this is called double shifting, which a few know about, and fewer understand) rev the engine to its maximum, to speed up the fixed train to come closer to the gear 1 speed, and then clutch in and stick to 1, it may go in. Voila, you made it, when let the clutch out in 1 at 80mph, the engine RPM will shoot to the maximum and real slow down will occur. It may ruin the engine, but not the transmission.
That's real life and not speculation. That is what would happen in a car. In a semi-truck, with 20 tons of payload that will not allow for the tires to loose traction, a union at the shaft may snap, but that is another chapter.
#47
Let me tell you another real life experience that I think is worth sharing. A few weeks ago I was ridding with a friend on I-55 (Chicago-Peoria) on a Toyota FJ Cruiser with Auto transmission. He owns several sport cars, all manual transmission, and he had just purchased the FJ. We are cruising at 70 mph, when he decides to pass a another car and he reached for the stick and shift to P. (On his mind he was going from 6th to 5th). You know what happened??? Almost nothing. No explosion of the tranny, not tire squealing, the car simply shut off as if he had turn the key to the off position, we kept rolling and slowing down, he moved to the shoulder and stopped (with the brakes). Turn the key, started right up and we came home. (well there were some cussing and other expressions but that is not mechanically relevant). Now, I will not venture to extrapolate this experience to other cars, since other cars, specially older, may have broken the weak pin that locks the tranny in P and may have acted differently.
#48
Can anyone help confirm this? My parents just bought a D1 - and I know they would prefer to know their pedal will always be connected to the wheels.
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02-21-2013 01:43 AM