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Here We Go Again, My LSX Swap Thread

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  #61  
Old 01-03-2014 | 02:57 PM
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Rock Crawling
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Thanks for that info! I have had the whole ignition switch assembly apart about a year ago, but I really didn't investigate what everything in there did.
I got the truck without any keys.
From my research so far I think that is the only thing that needs a "Park" signal. The GM computer uses a "PNP" input which is on a different wire from the transmission.
 
  #62  
Old 01-14-2014 | 08:43 AM
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So I tried to use the PNP signal (Park Neutral Position) from the 4L60E transmission and that didn't work for the LR ignition switch interlock. Not sure why, maybe it's not British enough. I will try just grounding the wire permanently and see if that will work. This would tell the BCU that the car is in park all the time. I do have a few other things to check out first, like, are all the Ignition power inputs on the GM computer powered up. I am feeding the GM computer ignition on circuits from three different fuses in the LR engine compartment fusebox. These three need to power up only when the ignition is on. I ran out of time Sunday night so I didn't get anything checked after I hooked up all the wires. I think maybe the BCU is not happy at all that the ECM is laying in a pile of discarded parts.


Anyway, got all the wiring done except the TAC computer to Accelerator pedal harness. The dunce at the salvage yard did not send any of the Drive By Wire parts even though it was clearly included in the ebay listing.
After a dozen phone calls and three separate shipments I finally got a TAC module from a different vehicle. It has no connectors or wiring. I am going to wing it and try to build a harness for it, even though the pedal is from one car and the computer is from another. The pinouts are totally different.


Next problem, I hooked the "Serial Data" line from the GM computer to the Serial Data line output on the LR ECM. I suspected this would not work, but I tried anyway. Not a real problem, I just need to add an additional OBDII port dedicated to the GM engine computer. It seems the multiple LR computers (SLABS, ATC-ECU, BCU, and more) all talk on the same line to the OBDII connector. Throw in a GM Serial Data line on top of it, and you got a serious language barrier.


I purchased a Chevrolet Truck cold air intake kit from an ebay seller for about $55 Southern US dollars. I cut 6" off its length, removed the Jack storage box from the side of the battery box (cut the box with a jigsaw) and installed the air intake routed over to the right side. The cone filter is wedged between the battery and the engine compartment fusebox. It put the MAF in the original location (like it was on the GMC Envoy), this should keep the computer happy. (the length between the MAF and the Throttle body affects programming). The aluminum pipe for the cold air intake is sticking up a little higher than the alternator. I have done a test fit on the hood before the air pipe install to see if it cleared everything and it shut barely. With the 3-3/4" aluminum pipe installed I may be in for some more mods to get the hood to close.


I have done the bare minimum on the AC parts for this project. There is at least a couple hundred more dollars to be invested before it will ever work. (hoses, 3-wire pressure switch, Freon etc) And if my luck goes as usual, the compressor on the GM salvage yard motor will be bad. That's about $300-$330. No sense investing money in that stuff if this whole project goes in the trash. When (or if) it runs and drives, I will spend the time and money to make the AC work. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the ATC ECU is woven into the LR electrical system almost to the point of not being able to extricate it. If not, then I am looking at another $1200 - $1500 for a Vintage air unit and an electronic controller!


If I don't get bogged down chasing electrical gremlins, I hope to get back on the transfer case install this weekend. I lost a whole day last weekend 'cause I had to go and buy SWMBO (wife) another car. She totaled hers the day after Christmas at 11:00 at night. My dad always told me nothing good happens after 10 pm, guess he was right. The damage to car was about 6k, damage caused by the air bags and seatbelt retractors was priceless. Result, a $27,900 car totaled.


I know I need pictures.... I'm guessing you don't want to see a bunch of shots of wires that look like a rat's nest?
More to come, I am not beaten yet!!
 

Last edited by Shade Tree; 01-14-2014 at 02:11 PM.
  #63  
Old 01-20-2014 | 11:36 AM
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Rock Crawling
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Default So it's about time for another update!

Got the hole cut in the floor as necessary to give the GM transfer case some tunnel hump in the middle of the truck. This is one of those things that when the first guy does it he should give others on the same path a heads up. So here goes...
1. You can remove the entire second row seat area carpet if you want, but I got about 45 minutes into it removing screws and seat bolts and panels etc, then discovered the carpet is glued down to the floor. Abandoned that and got my trusty razor knife and just cut an access hole in the carpet, way easier.
2. Be very careful, to my surprise there are 2 huge bundles of wires running under the carpet just behind the center console. Lots of chances to cut wires that DON'T need to be cut...way to short to splice in that tight spot.
3. Cut the floor from the bottom after you move all the wires and carpet out of the way. No since in setting the truck on fire yet, this engine may one day run after all.
4. Most of the hole that I cut wound up being directly under the center console so very little damage is done to the actual passenger compartment floor area.
5. There is lots of sheet metal re-enforcement under the console, so it required about twice as much cutting as I planned. No worry, I have gotten very efficient at tearing stuff up. See pictures attached in next post.
6. I will need to make a sheet metal patch with some hump in it, all will be good.




After I build the exhaust, the engine will be ready to run, all hoses attached (except AC) all fluids added, all the wires hooked up that I know about. I have made all the changes to the GM computer program, but I still need to flash it back into the ECM. My Win 8.1 laptop is not playing well with the old school Serial adapter that Jet uses with their programmer.


I haven't been able to finish the exhaust because I was waiting on the final positioning of the transfer case. I think I have that sorted out (needed the hole cut in the floor) so next will be transfer case install along with transmission mount fabrication. I will have to drill and tap about 4 new studs to bolt the TC to the transmission adapter. This is because I had to rotate the TC 180 deg over to the right side of the truck.


One of the pictures below shows a bunch of wires pulled out of some conduit, I had to tear into that one in order to add the new OBDII connector.


I should have laid a ruler next to pieces that were cut out, the hole is about 7" x 8" (or 18cm x 20cm).


The hood closes but just barely. I had to leave off the center plastic engine cover, that extra 1/2" keeps the hood from latching. I'll have to make something else for that, or just leave it uncovered.


I will address this in my final report, but just so you know, engine location is VERY important in this chassis. In order for the TC, exhaust manifold (left side) intake manifold, Intake tubing, mechanical fan, oil pan clearance and a few other items, all to be successfully installed and work, their is nearly zero room for error. For example, if the engine were mounted 1/4" higher, the truck intake manifold (and probably alternator) would prevent the hood from closing. If it were 1/4" higher or lower the mechanical fan would not work at all. It would hit the cross member on the bottom or the shroud on top would not work. Engine mounted just 1/2" to the left would prevent all but a custom built exhaust manifold from being installed. Engine 1/2" to the right would cause the TC to hit the frame rail. (big problems) If it were mounted a 1/2" farther forward you will have to use electric fans. An inch farther back and the bell housing bolts would be almost as hard to get to as the original Land Rover ones. Engine location is critical to the success of your swap into this chassis.
Enjoy!
 
Attached Thumbnails Here We Go Again, My LSX Swap Thread-img_20131229_120329.jpg   Here We Go Again, My LSX Swap Thread-img_20140119_100501.jpg   Here We Go Again, My LSX Swap Thread-img_20140119_100511.jpg   Here We Go Again, My LSX Swap Thread-img_20140119_100519.jpg   Here We Go Again, My LSX Swap Thread-img_20131229_120309.jpg  

  #64  
Old 01-20-2014 | 11:38 AM
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Rock Crawling
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Additional pics.
 
Attached Thumbnails Here We Go Again, My LSX Swap Thread-img_20140119_100625.jpg   Here We Go Again, My LSX Swap Thread-img_20140119_100645.jpg   Here We Go Again, My LSX Swap Thread-img_20140119_100735.jpg   Here We Go Again, My LSX Swap Thread-img_20140119_100817.jpg   Here We Go Again, My LSX Swap Thread-img_20140119_100844.jpg  

  #65  
Old 01-20-2014 | 12:46 PM
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Rock Crawling
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Default Just one more thing....

I forgot to mention the struggle with mounting the "Drive By Wire" accelerator pedal. In true Land Rover form, they welded the bracket for the accelerator pedal to a plate that is bolted to the firewall. It just so happens that the booster, steering shaft and assorted other things you can't even see all pass through or are bolted to this same plate. For all you chaps who are planning this swap in the future, I strongly suggest you address this issue while your engine is out of the frame. It's too late for me though, I will have to attack that plate with a vengeance in order to relieve it of its current pedal bracket and make room for the DBW. I may try to surgically cut the welds from back side (engine side) and then make a new patch plate/bracket to mount the new pedal.
More to come........
 
  #66  
Old 01-27-2014 | 10:01 AM
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Rock Crawling
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Default Update for those that care.

Got the electric shift transfer case installed. I changed my mind and decided to install a rubber transmission mount rather than the solid mount I mentioned in an earlier post. I needed to raise the transmission up a little and the rubber mount seemed like a good way to do it.


I had to clock the TC 180 deg and drill and tap for 3 mounting studs. (Two of the originals were reused).


Got the new transmission hump patched back in.


Really had a hard time with the accelerator bracket removal. That plate is about 1/8" thick and hard to get to with any serious cutting tools. I finally got it, but it looks like an angry metal mashing android robot ate a hole in the firewall. I'll cover that mess with an aluminum patch panel.


New DBW pedal is installed and appears to be working.


Took measurements for the rear driveshaft, the results gave me cause for a sleepless night. The transmission output is 7-7/8" offset from the rear pinion. It is also 5-3/4" higher. The center to center is 27".
A 17 deg angle on the driveline is not good. I know very little about 4wd and off-road driveshaft building, but I have seen some serious angles that worked. Hope it will work on a pavement pusher at 80 mph. I am going to see my driveshaft builder today, I hope he has some good ideas. I suspect he will suggest a CV joint (Double Cardan) on both ends.
The front shaft looks about the same angle as the original LR, however I have yet to find a slip yoke 1-1/16" dia with 17 splines on the planet.


Exhaust is the next big challenge. The tail shaft of the TC is occupying about half the space where the huge original muffler was mounted. There may not be room to move it toward the rear, so I might have to use two smaller units.


A few bad pictures attached.
 
Attached Thumbnails Here We Go Again, My LSX Swap Thread-img_20140126_095425.jpg   Here We Go Again, My LSX Swap Thread-img_20140126_095437.jpg   Here We Go Again, My LSX Swap Thread-img_20140126_095448.jpg   Here We Go Again, My LSX Swap Thread-img_20140126_122816.jpg  

Last edited by Shade Tree; 01-27-2014 at 06:17 PM. Reason: 180 deg not 18!
  #67  
Old 01-27-2014 | 02:32 PM
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Rock Crawling
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Default Slacking at work update..

Ok, just got back from driveline shop. The builder says that he thinks he can make the rear shaft work with two High Angle u-joints. Catch is, I have to convert the rear pinion from Rotoflex to a standard u-joint.
Apparently a 17 deg offset angle is "no hill for a stepper". I ordered the conversion kit which is not really "everything you need" according to the description. You also must have a 4 hole flanged u-joint adapter.
Driveline shop should have that as well as the goofy 17 spline slip yoke I need for the front shaft.
"Miles Axlerod is now officially a money pit.
Good Times!
 
  #68  
Old 01-27-2014 | 05:15 PM
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I accept gifts in the form of undying praise for telling you this

150tunes.com

You send your wiring harness to him, and he sends it back to you with all the plugs needed and connection for the DBW. For $150.00. For another $100 he'll send you a tune for the computer. You simply hook up 3 wires.

The guy who does these is a GM tech, and is really well known (and liked) on Pirate 4x4 and on a variety of other places like H4O (hummer forum).

And I can attest to his amazing work. I'm putting a 2006 3.6L VVT motor in a 1979 Fiat spider (with 6 speed and a couple turbos) - he did the engine wiring harness for me and took out the VATS. My wiring harness was as challenged as yours - it was supposed to be complete - it wasn't .... I think I had to pay $190 because he needed to get a couple plugs. I have a book that's 3" thick of the wiring harness for the motor.... or pay a couple dollars to someone who knows what they're doing.... trust me on this - he's worth 5x what you pay.

And why did you install the transfer case in upside down? I'd suggest finding a Hummer transfer case, you'd really score if you find a 4:1 out of an Adventure package H3.
 

Last edited by SuperBuickGuy; 01-27-2014 at 05:18 PM.
  #69  
Old 01-27-2014 | 07:56 PM
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Rock Crawling
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Originally Posted by SuperBuickGuy
I accept gifts in the form of undying praise for telling you this

150tunes.com

You send your wiring harness to him, and he sends it back to you with all the plugs needed and connection for the DBW. For $150.00. For another $100 he'll send you a tune for the computer. You simply hook up 3 wires.

The guy who does these is a GM tech, and is really well known (and liked) on Pirate 4x4 and on a variety of other places like H4O (hummer forum).

And I can attest to his amazing work. I'm putting a 2006 3.6L VVT motor in a 1979 Fiat spider (with 6 speed and a couple turbos) - he did the engine wiring harness for me and took out the VATS. My wiring harness was as challenged as yours - it was supposed to be complete - it wasn't .... I think I had to pay $190 because he needed to get a couple plugs. I have a book that's 3" thick of the wiring harness for the motor.... or pay a couple dollars to someone who knows what they're doing.... trust me on this - he's worth 5x what you pay.

And why did you install the transfer case in upside down? I'd suggest finding a Hummer transfer case, you'd really score if you find a 4:1 out of an Adventure package H3.


Thanks for the info, so far I have been fortunate enough to somehow manage to do all of my own work except driveshaft fabrication.
I had no knowledge of a Hummer TC that is right-side oriented. Might be the same one on my Colorado truck. Anyway, I was using the best complete system I could find as a package without buying stuff I'm not sure would work together. These are the things you learn that will help on the next guy's project.
Trying to stay on a budget since this truck may be worth something ONLY to ME after this hack is finished.
There are a few other tasks I hire done, high speed wheel balancing (I can mount my own tires), transmission rebuilds (haven't needed one since 1983), I also hired a upholstery guy to do a custom show car interior about 15 years ago.


I modify the wiring as necessary and re-flash the computer with my Jet programmer. I do electrical mods, welding, sheet metal fab, exhaust, alignments, steering box mods, bend and flare brake and transmission lines, AC lines, evacuation and AC charge, I have done windshields, window tinting, alarms, stereos, complete paint jobs, body repair, seat covers, and more. I am consulting on two other LSX installs for friends.


I really don't have experience building a BUNCH of cars, but I do have a BUNCH of experience building a few cars.
When you can't afford to hire it done, you figure out how to do it yourself. Make a few mistakes along the way and learn a lot.
Anyway, I digress...


If this TC won't work upside down, I may have to go down another path. Unfortunately, I have to invest in two driveshafts in order find out what will or won't work. I think I have the electric motor figured out for this computer controlled unit I got without a computer.


I built a harness for the DBW and it opens and closes the throttle body, so I guess it will work ok when and if this engine ever runs.


Three wires might be a little over simplification, here is a partial list:
1. VSS
2. Tach
3-7. Cruise control (5 wires)
8. Fuel pump
9-10. Electric fans
11-13. AC control
14. PNP
15. Serial Data
16. Starter
also, about 10 ignition power wires, 2 battery 12 volts, and a bunch of grounds.
Oil pressure and coolant temp are also add-ons. GM senders only work with GM gauges (so they say).


Stay tuned, more to come.....
 
  #70  
Old 01-31-2014 | 05:06 AM
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Good work shade tree. This is something that I've wanted to do for a couple of years now. Way too people that say this and that cant be done until someone like yourself has a go.

Did you ever think about a 6L80E and adapting the LR transfer case to it? Plenty of room for the front driveshaft and you get 6 gears however you need the GM E38 PCM to make everything run.

I'll see if I can get some photos of a L98 Gen 4 6.0L in a RRC.
 


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