After having both head gaskets replaced and a valve job I got my car back, $2550 later! The crazy thing is I am still losing coolant and my car smokes a lot when first turned over in the morning. After the car is warmed up it still has a large amount of smoke coming from the tail pipe. I hardly think this is normal. I never remember it smoking like this when it was running good, before all the work was done. I did notice that I still have misfire codes from #5 &#6 (both sides of the engine) just like when I brought it in and like I said it uses about a half of a tank of coolant between two days driving.

What the car shop has told me:

*A little coolant loss is normal after a job like this because some fluid needs to be moved into the system anf that it should be below the cold fill line when running and that I would need to check the tank everyday. (The tank is way under the cold fill line in the morning every morning, so I am having to fill it up every morning for the past week that I have had it back) This I know is not normal!!!!

*The misfire codes were do to spark plug wires and spark plugs and that if they were coming up previous to the head gasket replacement then it was a pre-existing problem and that the shop is not liable for that work. (Wouldn't the shop that rebuilt my engine check to make sure that things are running good before they released the car to me? Possibly letting me know that I might need to change a wire or plug which were both replaced just before the car was brought in to have the work done, STI wires and stock plugs from Dealer)


I need to know what you guys think because I am bringing the car back to the shop and need "ammo" so to speak. I want to have an idea of what could be wrong so if I get the run around from the shop I know what is BS or not. I was told this is a reliable shop for land rovers from many people in town and I am assuming they will "do the right thing". Who knows what will happen!

 

A couple of questions. First-- how hot did the vehicle get before the head gaskets let go? Did it peg the temp gage? and if so.....for how long before the engine was shut down? Second--- ask the shop if they checked the engine block for a slipped piston liner(s). The misfire codes could be due to blown head gaskets that were allowing coolant into the combustion chambers and causing the misfire. However-- any shop worth a damn would have inspected the wires for any cracks, replaced the spark plugs with new ones upon re-assembly, and test-drove the vehicle until it came up to normal temp to confirm the repair was effective. While it is true that the vapor coming out of the tail-pipe is normal after a head gasket job-- this situation goeas away after a couple of run cycles. If you are having to top up the coolant level daily---- there is another problem. And I hate to say this, but you may have a cracked block. It is not uncommon when these blocks get very hot. It cannot be detected visually, as it is often cracked at a internal passageway.

Below is a write-up addressing the problem from the RPI Engineering site in England --and excellent source of know-how on the Rover engine:

Regards,

Geoman

www.eurotekapg.com






Engine Overheating Problems 3.9 and 4.2 only (pre 96)? & 4.0, 4.6 post 96?


Overheating starts with water loss. The early 3.9 and 4.2 (pre '95-'96) engines were basically an over-bored 3.5 casting with 4mm extra on the diameter of the liners. This caused a reduced thickness of aluminium between the water jacket and the cylinder bore. The subsequent water loss problem normally starts off as just a water light that appears once a month or so, then once a week, until it becomes a permanent feature. The normal unsuspecting owner will have by this time paid for heads to be skimmed and gaskets to be changed, and they will have spent a lot of money already. So, although the engine functions fine, it is a permanent worry leading towards a total engine failure.
Many might be excused for thinking that the overheating is caused by running the engine in a hot climate, or with a radiator problem, or even insufficient cooling fans or oil cooler, but we can assure you this is not normally the case.
3.9 & 4.2 The true & main reason these engines run very hot is due to the fuel/air ratio, or fuel mixture, that is controlled by the engine EFi computer (ECU Chip) from the factory. This was designed to run very lean through the mid range to make altitude driving or mid range emissions (tested in some countries) less of a problem, the upshot of this however is that when these engines are used on low quality or low octane fuels, or when the engines are upgraded with items even as minor as a free-flow air filter or exhaust headers & Cam/Head upgrades, although all of these are only mild upgrades, they will make a weak engine run even weaker and the problem will get closer!
The solution is simple (if it's not cracked already), fitting our Optimax or Tornado Eprom (ECU Chip) will give your engine the near perfect fuel/air ratio it deserves, thus giving lower engine internal temperatures and giving, without other modifications to all, 15% efficiency boost [power and economy} & also allow the upgrades you have already done to be beneficial at last, instead of being detrimental. 3.9 & 4.2 ECU info 'Click'
4.0 & 4.6 (new shape) suffer a similar but normally less dramatic problem although these engines are much stronger. The same air/fuel ratio problem will arise with low octane fuels, you will not normally suffer cracked blocks, but you will cause the liner to shift from its seat or cause sticky valve guides (partial seizure), and the solution is much the same as the 3.9 & 4.2 above, an ECU re-chip will sort it out and more Gems ECU info 'Click'
All cracked engines (blocks) are not normally repairable due to the fact that it will crack behind other liners, even if you could effectively repair the one at fault.
If you are undecided about where the problem actually is, then the next job would be to remove the heads, and if you see nothing suspect the worst (the surest way to tell if your engine is suffering from this problem is the fact that you can find nothing obviously wrong). You could have the heads & block pressure tested if you are still not convinced).

 

Thanks Geoman, I have a couple of answers to your questions you asked on your reply.
1) The engine was pegged for a couple of min before I could get more coolant into it. I shut down the engine as soon as I saw it was getting hot and it pegged when pulled over and shut off.
2) The shop checked to see if the liners had dropped and they say that they were fine. They sent my heads out to be worked on and did a valve job before putting it back together.
3) The shop had to inspect the plugs and wires apon putting them in I am only assuming but one can never sassume, right!
4) The shop also test drove the car for only 6 miles (what the gauge read when I got the car back) and the shop owner told me no codes came up and the car was cooling properly.
5) The car smoked a bit when I got it back but does this regularly now every time I start it.-----might be the block like you say! They told me they checked for a cracked block but might have missed a small crack during the inspection. This I have no way to know really.

Thank You for your insight, I am very greatful!

-Duckhunteryolo

 

Okay-- next question. In the morning when you start the engine --- and after about 5-10 minutes of running do you see any moisture dripping from the tail-pipe?....and does the exhaust have any kind of "sweet" smell to it? If possible --- have a shop do a check for the presence of combustion gases in the coolant -- by connecting up to the expansion tank.

On the engine mis-fire code issue--you may need a new set of plugs andwires. Look at the repair order from the shop and see if they list a set of spark plugs. Inspect the plug wires your self---Do they look new?

even with all of this said--- it's looking like a cracked block.

Geoman
www.eurotekapg.com

 

A side question, how did you pay for your repairs? If you paid by a credit card and the repair was not done right or completely then you can contest this charge with your credit card bank.
Bottom line, you shouldn't be leaking off coolant still be it thru the exhaust or externally and the shop should be held responsible if they did something wrong.
Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
Mike

 

I started it up this morning and let it run to see if it was still smoking and how it smelled. There is still lots of smoke at first start up and it does smell sweet.
It also starts to drip moisture out the tailpipe after about 5-10 mins once the car is at normal operating temp.

Regarding the plugs and wires, They are all new. Stock plugs from dealer were installed and STI plug wires. When I first took the car into the shop the owner also said what you refered to about coolant in the combustion chambers causing the misfire codes. This is what made him think there was a headgasket problem. I have called to tell him this and to tell him that the same problems I am having are the initial problems I brought the car in for repair for. He is going to look at it on tuesday!

I looked under the car this morning also and could see drips of coolant on the drivers side under the engine. It looks like the coolant is coming from somewhere above the location of the drips obviously but I can't tell where. I know there is a little coolant on the top of the valve cover on the drivers side, but this was dry when I checked and the drips I saw were fresh.

I will be posting newer info when I hear back from the shop.

Thanks, Duckhunteryolo

 

Yes I did pay with my American Express just for this reason. They have been great on issues like this with previous family members problems at automotive shops. It is sad to say, but this has happened to more than one of my family members at different shops! Amazing!

I will post newer updates when I hear more!

Thanks for all your insight Mike and Geoman---You guys have been great!

 

Lived out in Capay then Woodland. Moved to Orangevale a year or so later. Still in the Rover? Just got a 98 Discovery and learning it was very well maintained. Saying Hi from near San Jose.

 

This thread was updated over 9 years ago. I think it's safe to say that the updates aren't going to happen.

 

Holy sh*t. 2007 was 9 years ago...