Oil lamp and ticking at 170k: Suggestions on where to start
TReK
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,748
Likes: 506
From: Seattle, Wa
If things work out with Turner and rebuilding that block is possible you might as well pull it out of your existing truck so it is easier and cheaper to work on.
Find another running D2, Take the best parts off your current body, scrap the frame, sell the rest, then rebuild the Turner if possible at your leisure (in a storage unit) so you eventually have a good spare power plant and all the first hand experience.
Find another running D2, Take the best parts off your current body, scrap the frame, sell the rest, then rebuild the Turner if possible at your leisure (in a storage unit) so you eventually have a good spare power plant and all the first hand experience.
Last edited by Dave03S; Jan 6, 2018 at 02:14 PM.
Rock Crawling
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 469
Likes: 193
You violated the terms of the agreement you made with him. You're the one backing out. Yet you blame him and bad mouth him publicly.
And as someone else mentioned, you can be guaranteed that Turner is seeing all of this, as well as Don who installed the engine for you and who you've already hinted at blaming earlier.
For once, take the advice of the good people here trying to help you and bin that doorstop of an engine.
And as someone else mentioned, you can be guaranteed that Turner is seeing all of this, as well as Don who installed the engine for you and who you've already hinted at blaming earlier.
For once, take the advice of the good people here trying to help you and bin that doorstop of an engine.
Julian, I wouldn't put that engine back together as is. As the other's have said, there's no smoking gun visible here. The front cover is scored-- but not enough for 0 PSI. Find another D2 and a storage unit to swap your stuff over. You can learn a lot about the engine. I stuffed my D2 in the garage when I got mad at it for 6 months. Furthermore, I'd be willing to bet the Turner will try to make this right or help you out.
Pro Wrench
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,709
Likes: 137
From: NE PA
Im weighing all my options. Ive said this before and Ill say it again. I do NOT have a shop or garage space ideal for tearing apart an engine, mind you guys I have no prior experience working on internal engine components. Snow on the ground and temps below zero. Wind chill etc. Way too dam cold for me to be outside for hours at a time trying to rebuild this engine. I brought the truck to the shop hoping they could have everything fixed in a week.
Tarheel wanted me to pay $1,400 for a 2004 Discovery 2 with 170k and a blown engine. Plus he wanted the front bumper assembly. Eventually we agreed that I would drive down, give him my truck plus $1400 and I would also give him the front bumper off the white donor truck along with the running boards, second and third row seats etc. Putting a very reasonable profit in his pocket. Then I was going to pay one of his friends another $1300 to swap my Turner engine over into the donor truck and give Tarheel the blown engine from the donor for parts.
But with the recent oil pump failure those plans went out the window. I texted Mike this morning and explained that I wont be able to drive down due to mechanical issues and I I asked him if/how much more $$$ I would need to send him in order to be able to tow the donor truck back north, since I would not be able to give him my rusted out truck after all. He responded saying deals off your money is in the mail. I paid him months in advance a grand sum of $1400 via Paypal. now hes pissed at me because I cant give him my truck and yada yada yada.
I did just find another D2 down south. A 2004 with 200k. However the owner claims that the engine was completely rebuilt BY LAND ROVER at 140k. Truck runs great except the gear selector xyz switch needs to be replaced and the truck is in limp mode. The seller is asking $2,000 for a rust free, running truck with a rebuilt engine. In contrast to the 2004 rust free, 170k blown engine truck Mike was going to sell me. Sounds like this is a much better deal.
How easily can the xyz switch be replaced? Does the engine or transmission have to be removed?
Tarheel wanted me to pay $1,400 for a 2004 Discovery 2 with 170k and a blown engine. Plus he wanted the front bumper assembly. Eventually we agreed that I would drive down, give him my truck plus $1400 and I would also give him the front bumper off the white donor truck along with the running boards, second and third row seats etc. Putting a very reasonable profit in his pocket. Then I was going to pay one of his friends another $1300 to swap my Turner engine over into the donor truck and give Tarheel the blown engine from the donor for parts.
But with the recent oil pump failure those plans went out the window. I texted Mike this morning and explained that I wont be able to drive down due to mechanical issues and I I asked him if/how much more $$$ I would need to send him in order to be able to tow the donor truck back north, since I would not be able to give him my rusted out truck after all. He responded saying deals off your money is in the mail. I paid him months in advance a grand sum of $1400 via Paypal. now hes pissed at me because I cant give him my truck and yada yada yada.
I did just find another D2 down south. A 2004 with 200k. However the owner claims that the engine was completely rebuilt BY LAND ROVER at 140k. Truck runs great except the gear selector xyz switch needs to be replaced and the truck is in limp mode. The seller is asking $2,000 for a rust free, running truck with a rebuilt engine. In contrast to the 2004 rust free, 170k blown engine truck Mike was going to sell me. Sounds like this is a much better deal.
How easily can the xyz switch be replaced? Does the engine or transmission have to be removed?
No space, no knowledge and it sounds like money is an issue now too.
I could spend a few grand and have a decent running truck...much easier than paying someone else and trying to find which parts to buy and trying to make one.
What you're doing is allot of hope and prayer and ramming parts together hoping you'll meet the outcome you want.
I go to the gas station, pick a bunch of numbers and hoping to get the outcome I want...how many times do you think I won?
Last edited by shanechevelle; Jan 6, 2018 at 02:36 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 31
Likes: 1
From: Winston-Salem NC
I would really think about what I wanted out of an overland rig if that is the direction you want to go it. I don't know if a D2 is the best option--I love my D2 but have a very realistic outlook on what it is and isn't. Maybe step away from Land Rover and come back later when you have the space, time, tools, and desire to really dig into one. I wanted to build a 4x4 since I was 17 and waited until I was 35 to start. I now have the tools, garage, knowledge, and most importantly money to devote to a project. Let's be honest a Discovery is a perpetual project--why I love mine as it will never be done. I don't know how realistic it is to depend on a D2 as a daily driver too, I drive mine 12-15k miles a year but have other options just in case. If a repair takes a week to get parts it is no big deal, I just drive my truck.
We have a great community and some very stand up people have helped you out. After a year Mike has refunded your money 100%, that says a lot about his character and why I will continue to support Tarheel Rovers. Maybe look at Toyota, I had a 2006 4Runner go 265k miles with zero problems, just tires, brakes, plugs, and oil changes. Rover's are a labor of love and I could not image paying someone to fix them.
We have a great community and some very stand up people have helped you out. After a year Mike has refunded your money 100%, that says a lot about his character and why I will continue to support Tarheel Rovers. Maybe look at Toyota, I had a 2006 4Runner go 265k miles with zero problems, just tires, brakes, plugs, and oil changes. Rover's are a labor of love and I could not image paying someone to fix them.
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 29
Likes: 3
Vermonster, I don't know what your stake is in this, but you seem to have quite the vendetta against Julian. Of the 15 posts you've made in this forum, 10 of them are lambasting him individually. But, on one of which, you're trying to buy his truck. While I even agree with your points on some of his past actions, this is hardly constructive. I think this I speak for most people when I say that we are just trying to help the guy figure out his best option.
With all due respect, Aaron (and I mean that), my calling him out on these very specific actions is entirely constructive. Julian has a years long, documented history of loudly, unfairly, unjustifiably, and publicly badmouthing both retailers and service providers that cater specifically to the Land Rover community.
He's done this on forums (not just this one) and elsewhere on Rover-specific social media. Just in this thread alone he's unjustifiably pointed his finger for his troubles at Turner, Don Tredeau (the mechanic who installed the Turner block) and now the shop his truck is at. He's now attacking one of the better known used Rover parts dealers that cater to our community, Tarheel Rovers and its owner Mike Sides.
It's constructive because anyone who came to a forum looking for advice and help and read his angry, misguided lies that didn't know his history could assume what he was saying about these respectable businesses was true. And that should not stand.
So yes, my calling him out when he publicly badmouths members of our community, especially those that make a living supporting our passion and love of Rovers, is entirely constructive.
Rock Crawling
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 469
Likes: 193
With all due respect, Aaron (and I mean that), my calling him out on these very specific actions is entirely constructive. Julian has a years long, documented history of loudly, unfairly, unjustifiably, and publicly badmouthing both retailers and service providers that cater specifically to the Land Rover community.
He's done this on forums (not just this one) and elsewhere on Rover-specific social media. Just in this thread alone he's unjustifiably pointed his finger for his troubles at Turner, Don Tredeau (the mechanic who installed the Turner block) and now the shop his truck is at. He's now attacking one of the better known used Rover parts dealers that cater to our community, Tarheel Rovers and its owner Mike Sides.
It's constructive because anyone who came to a forum looking for advice and help and read his angry, misguided lies that didn't know his history could assume what he was saying about these respectable businesses was true. And that should not stand.
So yes, my calling him out when he publicly badmouths members of our community, especially those that make a living supporting our passion and love of Rovers, is entirely constructive.
He's done this on forums (not just this one) and elsewhere on Rover-specific social media. Just in this thread alone he's unjustifiably pointed his finger for his troubles at Turner, Don Tredeau (the mechanic who installed the Turner block) and now the shop his truck is at. He's now attacking one of the better known used Rover parts dealers that cater to our community, Tarheel Rovers and its owner Mike Sides.
It's constructive because anyone who came to a forum looking for advice and help and read his angry, misguided lies that didn't know his history could assume what he was saying about these respectable businesses was true. And that should not stand.
So yes, my calling him out when he publicly badmouths members of our community, especially those that make a living supporting our passion and love of Rovers, is entirely constructive.
Just my 2 cents, please carry on. I hope Julian can get this resolved, in whatever way possible.
Last edited by CaptainAaron; Jan 6, 2018 at 03:53 PM.
Camel Trophy
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 4,865
Likes: 1,408
From: Michigan
I'm starting to think shanechevelle and carreradan are making about the best sense at the moment. Take a step back and evaluate the situation. Maybe, buy a different rig, have the engine pulled out of this one, bring the rest of the rig home (with engine in the back), put the engine on a stand, swap things over to better rig...and assemble this engine at your leisure.
The engine is just a sum of pieces that with a little time and learning you could rebuild it and eventually swap into better framed rig.
This whole ordeal has just gone sideways for the moment. We, or most of us, assumed this would be a broken pump and cover issue, and maybe some bearings...all with the hopes that you might be back in business after a modest repair...but not to be. So, that in itself changes the complexity of the situation.
Anyway, I'd pull the reigns in a bit and slow down the money drain. If you get another rover, you will surely use any of the parts you've already bought. This engine should be pulled, gone through (find smoking gun) and reassembled properly, in my opinion. Someday, it might be the prefect engine for an overland rig.
Brian.
The engine is just a sum of pieces that with a little time and learning you could rebuild it and eventually swap into better framed rig.
This whole ordeal has just gone sideways for the moment. We, or most of us, assumed this would be a broken pump and cover issue, and maybe some bearings...all with the hopes that you might be back in business after a modest repair...but not to be. So, that in itself changes the complexity of the situation.
Anyway, I'd pull the reigns in a bit and slow down the money drain. If you get another rover, you will surely use any of the parts you've already bought. This engine should be pulled, gone through (find smoking gun) and reassembled properly, in my opinion. Someday, it might be the prefect engine for an overland rig.
Brian.
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TReK
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,167
Likes: 87
I've never flat out lied about anything or anyone nor have I intentionally made untrue statements. Sure Ive gotten carried away and over-reacted from time to time and Ive made some statements that later turned out to be untrue (one example being when I purchased what I thought to be genuine rotors and pads for a bargain price and bragged about how cheap they are). Ive also indulged in politically debates and bickering from time to time. For that Im guilty.
I have never flat out accused Mike of Tarheel Rovers or my former mechanic Don Trudeau or Turner Engineering of being bad, fraud or dishonest either. I have "complained" about things like when a mechanic broke my door handle which I had to pay for out of my pocket..... I have complained about people taking too long to complete a job or cost for parts being to expensive yada yada yada. Don treated me very good and let me park my truck at his shop for "MONTHS" for free while I was fishing in Alaska and he let me make payments for labor charges. Cant complain their. Plus hes a dam good spotter/guide on the trails. Yes I have had to consider the "possibility that either Don or one of his former mechanics may have made some mistakes during the engine swap but its only speculation. Like I said I do not know why my engine has failed and all Im trying to do is determine who,what,when,where,how and why it happened. Could be a rare occurrence, defective part in the engine, maybe mishandling during shipping, perhaps a mistake one of Dons mechanics made, maybe my driving style or the thick oil I was using in these cold temps? Who can really say?
Mike of Tarheel Rovers has been pretty reasonable mostly up to know. I was pissed when he said the deal was off this morning and we bickered for afew hours. He never ripped me off but when he said the deal was off I felt like he ****ed me over in a sense because all the sudden I no longer had a backup donor truck to put my engine in. In the end I agreed a refund is the best course of action. Hopefully we can end things on a good note and go our separate ways.
Ive learned alot over the years being a member on this forum. I use to get really excited and post new threads almost daily, sometimes over stupid ****. But over time Ive cooled it down a few notches and take **** more seriously. I understand many folks on here are part of a very tight knit community. Consequently very unforgiving. Ive had the pleasure of meeting some folks from this forum and Ive also made some enemies. Some folks literally made an account solely to troll my threads (Vermonster). But at the end of the day you cant make everyone happy. I gave up trying long ago. I try to avoid getting involved in politically debates or bickering fights on here as it really does not help the community. 10 more years could go by and people will still be on my *** for something I said back in 2012. Just how it is here.
Past is the past and we cant change it. Ive never harmed anybody, never truly lied or ripped anyone off despite the wild claims. Ive toned down alot on these forums and will try to refram from expressing my opinions to often (for the sack of the forum and the good folks left on here). Thats all I can really do, if that still is not enough well tough ****.
I have never flat out accused Mike of Tarheel Rovers or my former mechanic Don Trudeau or Turner Engineering of being bad, fraud or dishonest either. I have "complained" about things like when a mechanic broke my door handle which I had to pay for out of my pocket..... I have complained about people taking too long to complete a job or cost for parts being to expensive yada yada yada. Don treated me very good and let me park my truck at his shop for "MONTHS" for free while I was fishing in Alaska and he let me make payments for labor charges. Cant complain their. Plus hes a dam good spotter/guide on the trails. Yes I have had to consider the "possibility that either Don or one of his former mechanics may have made some mistakes during the engine swap but its only speculation. Like I said I do not know why my engine has failed and all Im trying to do is determine who,what,when,where,how and why it happened. Could be a rare occurrence, defective part in the engine, maybe mishandling during shipping, perhaps a mistake one of Dons mechanics made, maybe my driving style or the thick oil I was using in these cold temps? Who can really say?
Mike of Tarheel Rovers has been pretty reasonable mostly up to know. I was pissed when he said the deal was off this morning and we bickered for afew hours. He never ripped me off but when he said the deal was off I felt like he ****ed me over in a sense because all the sudden I no longer had a backup donor truck to put my engine in. In the end I agreed a refund is the best course of action. Hopefully we can end things on a good note and go our separate ways.
Ive learned alot over the years being a member on this forum. I use to get really excited and post new threads almost daily, sometimes over stupid ****. But over time Ive cooled it down a few notches and take **** more seriously. I understand many folks on here are part of a very tight knit community. Consequently very unforgiving. Ive had the pleasure of meeting some folks from this forum and Ive also made some enemies. Some folks literally made an account solely to troll my threads (Vermonster). But at the end of the day you cant make everyone happy. I gave up trying long ago. I try to avoid getting involved in politically debates or bickering fights on here as it really does not help the community. 10 more years could go by and people will still be on my *** for something I said back in 2012. Just how it is here.
Past is the past and we cant change it. Ive never harmed anybody, never truly lied or ripped anyone off despite the wild claims. Ive toned down alot on these forums and will try to refram from expressing my opinions to often (for the sack of the forum and the good folks left on here). Thats all I can really do, if that still is not enough well tough ****.
Pro Wrench
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,935
Likes: 189
From: Coastal Georgia
I agree Julian has badmouthed some suppliers.
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TReK
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,167
Likes: 87
When I started this thread a week ago I was in a very negative devastated state of mind. I was feeling ready to give up on this piece of **** of a truck and walk away from Land Rover all together. But a bunch of you folks cheered me up, encouraged me to NOT give up and press on. I waited a whole week before buying any parts and only bought parts as recommended by you folks and as I actually needed them (example being the rod and crank bearings). The mystery gets deeper as we learned that the oil pump was actually still intact. This is why its always good to get several different opinions/suggestions and bits of advice from knowledgeable folks. I do appreciate all the help and support and encouragement.
Ive already explained that I dont have a good place to work on the engine myself however this particular shop actually lets me help them work on my truck. It was my idea to use the slide hammer like tool to pull down the crank rod bearing cap. Being on the scene helping them remove the crank rod main bearings is actually helping me to better understand how this engine works and how to work on it. I know have some confidence in my ability to replace these bearings and the oil pump myself. Im a hands on visual learner. Just reading about a particular job does not help, I gotta be there up close observing to really understand how its done and why.
At this point I dont want to spend $500 on a second new oil pump front cover, mind you I bought a new cover to be included with my Turner block. Since we have not determined the cause of the failure I will have them hold off on any further work on this engine. If I can source a rust free 2004 D2 with a running engine than I will buy it and use it as my daily driver, then pull the Turner block and store it as you folks suggested. Slowly I will pull it apart, learn how everything works and try my luck at a rebuild in the confines of a storage unit. Unfortunately most storage units prohibit you from working on cars in the units so Id have to figure out a loop hole. Either way this engine may just be a great learning experience for me.
I have my eyes set on a particular 2004 white D2 thats actually running but Im not gonna get my hopes up yet. Ill have to wait until I get my refund from Mike before I can buy it. Its another southern truck. For some reason Im obsessed with white D2's. I think they look fantastic and the color honors the heritage of Land Rovers of old. In the mean time Ill be driving around in a cheap $500 Chevy Blazer beater. If and when I get a rust free D2 then ill be donating the beater Blazer to a family member who could really use a new car.
Thanks all so very much for your help, support, encouragement and useful info and pics. If I hear anything else from Turner Ill update here.
Ive already explained that I dont have a good place to work on the engine myself however this particular shop actually lets me help them work on my truck. It was my idea to use the slide hammer like tool to pull down the crank rod bearing cap. Being on the scene helping them remove the crank rod main bearings is actually helping me to better understand how this engine works and how to work on it. I know have some confidence in my ability to replace these bearings and the oil pump myself. Im a hands on visual learner. Just reading about a particular job does not help, I gotta be there up close observing to really understand how its done and why.
At this point I dont want to spend $500 on a second new oil pump front cover, mind you I bought a new cover to be included with my Turner block. Since we have not determined the cause of the failure I will have them hold off on any further work on this engine. If I can source a rust free 2004 D2 with a running engine than I will buy it and use it as my daily driver, then pull the Turner block and store it as you folks suggested. Slowly I will pull it apart, learn how everything works and try my luck at a rebuild in the confines of a storage unit. Unfortunately most storage units prohibit you from working on cars in the units so Id have to figure out a loop hole. Either way this engine may just be a great learning experience for me.
I have my eyes set on a particular 2004 white D2 thats actually running but Im not gonna get my hopes up yet. Ill have to wait until I get my refund from Mike before I can buy it. Its another southern truck. For some reason Im obsessed with white D2's. I think they look fantastic and the color honors the heritage of Land Rovers of old. In the mean time Ill be driving around in a cheap $500 Chevy Blazer beater. If and when I get a rust free D2 then ill be donating the beater Blazer to a family member who could really use a new car.
Thanks all so very much for your help, support, encouragement and useful info and pics. If I hear anything else from Turner Ill update here.