Hey gang,

I am in a pinch. I am a total doofus and knew this happens…. I am in my 04’ front cover inspecting the oil pump and doing the timing chain. Tried to hand remove the first oil pump pozi screw, lo and behold with little effort I stripped it in a minor fashion. I used my hand impact on immediately after.

i dont want to put it back so I am going to the LR dealership hoping they have this screw. However, they wont do anything without the part number.

does anyone know this screw part number?




UPDATE: I was told to go to the hardware store… wonderful service.

 

Send me an email, I will send you a spare.

 

Thanks man, I really appreciate it. I was able to get that screw to tighten… but it may never come out again without some drilling.

Actually, it’s great that you reached out. One of the items that on this maintenance was to install your inline mod. I am going to post the results on the official thread and some feedback.

I got it done last night. My buddy and I are working through some things we heard and noticed. I reread your entire thread to ensure current information.

Here’s the sitch.
104k miles 04 SE7. The maintenance started with a snowy day in Wisco on the way to work. Water pump failed, wobbly fan, and I shut er down at 215 on the Ultra Gauge knowing the temp is higher at the block outlet. Limped home literally, we were doing single pass coolant and distilled water flushes. What went in came out, fast. Changed the water pump. Easy peasy. I was running 188 soft spring “genuine” thermostat… not genuine. Dumb. Month later the thing starts being inconsistent, I am losing coolant at an odd rate, the vent is puking, hoses were more thick and juicy then normal.I couldn't find it, until I saw that my buddy tightened down the top radiator screw and popped it…new radiator time, during the week up to starting the radiator swap The PS starts whining and it was crying on it’s way out. New PS pump. During the disassembly I learned how the viscous fan works and realized… oh that may of been a contributing factor for the water pump failure.

So here is what was done as a result of fixing a cooling system piece by piece instead of a whole system of unknown age and condition.

Cooling system has all new components. Hoses, aluminum expansion tank, and “lower” thermostat were done immediately when I flushed out that orange engine killer when I got the vehicle. Water pump and gasket were done as a result of the failure. The radiator was just dropped in after changing the timing chain (genuine), cam gear (genuine), and oil pump gears (aftermarket). After we buttoned up the oil sump and front cover the PS pump and hoses were replaced, we put back all the brackets, smacked a new battery and alternator (I broke the little peg taking the small nut off), and started to assemble the hoses required for the Extinct In-line mod with a new viscous fan.

First go around of coolant filling, the HP Mr. Gasket was installed port down with I believe a 180 thermostat. Filled the vehicle with liquids. All kinds. PS fluid, 15W-40 Rotella T4, transmission fluid, and enough coolant to get the process started. Primed up the greased up oil pump with no fuel fuses.

Coolant level got to the thermostat housing. dropwise leaks out the bottom with the orange gasket.

Obviously we “read” the original post instructions, not well at that point so I believe we did not put it in gently and carefully as described later in the comments within the inline thread post .

Because we didn't read further down the inline post nor critically review the photos of the making a seal using the provided paper gasket… we gasketed the orange gasket with right stuff 90 min. Didn’t let it cure, basically just installed and let it ride. We thought we would tighten it up and that gasket goop with do it’s job. Dumb… Started it up. Leaked same place. Less this time. Removed the housing, separated it, damaged the reusable gasket, and finally followed the instructions. Made Circle gasket seals and it was allowed to cure and then torque. It said 90 min gasket, you said 4 hours minimum. We did maybe about 3 hours, and installed. Longer is probably better, but what’s a job if it ain't worth doing it twice? That literally one of my favorite things about this mod. Easy access and maintenance.

Because the whole system was dry, a new radiator, and other critical components were replaced. We babied it and took it easy. we were verifying the presence of leaky liquids, making sure we didn't brick it. We ran with the cap on for spurts getting everything back in motion and kept the temps reasonable to allow us to monitor some other stuff. We were mostly ensuring our work, worked whilst also figuring out and filling the modified cooling system. All in all we’ve put in about 12ish liters before we ran with the cap off at 2500 rpm as prescribed. Checked and topped of the oil. The cooling system open to vent burped out the volume of gas it sucked in, the housing didn't leak, and after each feeding of coolant the level would go down.

On the last open system coolant purge a new ticking noise started early. Not high pitched, a rhythmic lowered click. Temp was rising and minor exhaust white smoke.

We let it cool, stopped for a while, calmly researched slipped liner sounds, and went to verify it’s repeatability after it was decided eh if its screw its screwed. Threw the cap on, started it up, didn’t hear the tick, let it warm up to idle, and temperature range at idle stayed put. 204 back down. Might of touched 207-8.

There was no more ticking sound, I am skeptical but okay with it. I previously ran T6 Rotella and went to T4 after hearing that the T6 will find its way out. So maybe something just cleaned itself? Who knows? Took it for a test drive… a mild jaunt around the block. I will confirm this again but I saw some swinging temperatures. Low 160’s to 199ish. Maybe not that extreme but it was responsive and seemed stable. I was pretty stoked. No tick, no smoke.

Went to go see the housing and like before… a leak. Drop wise. Slow. Nothing major but still a leak.

Could I please ask you some questions and maybe provide some feedback?

I think the mod you’ve made is great. Truly, it’s an idea that I think a lot of us have thought about. Not specifically the in line mod, but the idea to maybe create income by providing manufactured current, upgraded bolt on bits and products to the Land Rover community. Your LR knowledge and experience has provided an opportunity for you to implement, produce, and manufacture an essential upgrade for the community. This mod is an incredible starting point for this venture of yours. It’s slick. Minimal components. It’s easy, functional, and can be done in the field, home, or anyway with ease. It is in my humble opinion, a great representation of the community. You make and sell Land Rover stuff. Right on man… that’s awesome. I felt some negative vibes within the inline thread as a result of concerns for placement, casting, and general opinions. Which is fine, but I think that is unreasonably high expectations for something like this at this time? You are a person who made this occur, coordinated it, sourced components and apparently offer amazing support to boot? The product minimizes cobbling of components together. Most people don’t want to do that. Some do and thats okay as alternate in line thermostats mods are available. This product is meant to help people so they can use their Land Rovers in their free time, to be on the road and in the wild.

I will be recommending every D2 owner to the Extinct Inline Thermostat.

Make D2s Live Long Again!

If you could help me out and answer some questions that would be cool. Please and thank you.

The end user is recommended to reduce the pressure retention capability of the cooling system via loosening of the cap. Ensuring pressure relief to not occur at fragile critical components.

Are those instructions provided assuming the end user is using the plastic tank? Or the aluminum expansion tanks, with locking caps? Like I said, I have the aluminum expansion tank and it’s probably safe to say a lot of the users do? Maybe? But for me specifically, the tank has etched on the cap 16 PSI. I cannot recall but I thought maybe I read somewhere or saw that the original designed expansion tank and cap relieves at 20 PSI.

What is the suggested method to relieve the pressure of the system with an aluminum tank equipped with a locking cap?

As mentioned previously, if it’s going to leak and go out somewhere we might as well have it be at an identified area. I am all for doing this and I understand the boiling point is impacted by the pressure as well, however, I haven’t been doing that because… well, I physically dont feel the difference between the “locked” down position of the cap in it’s channel grooves, and the “unlocked” position. it feels no different than the “unlocked” slighty turned opened position.

I am looking for clarity. Is this normal procedure for what it looks and feels like on the locking aluminum expansion tank caps?

As the original mod thread highlights it’s dual functionality. It can be easily removed from the high point position with little to no impact or mess. Specifically, you mentioned some customer experiences with the inline mod and new radiators. I just dropped in a Nissens radiator. When a new radiator is fitted with the Extinction inline mod is it recommended to verify the operation of the radiator by removing the thermostat? If so, what are we looking for? What temps are expected to be seen with no thermostat? For how easy it is, I am going verify the construction and quality of the radiator.

Unfortunately, I don't remember which thermostat I procured in my kit. My order number was #121 for qty: 1, 154-18-VE back in late April of last year and I didn’t know what I know now and would like to ensure I procured a 180 thermostat.

as of right now, after I noticed the leak, drip drop slow, I grabbed the torque wrench and buttoned her up to them recommended settings. They slacked maybe about a 1/8 of a turn? Do you retighten after initial torquing and curing? The leaking seemed to stop, however it was late and I wasn’t able to verify.

Curious side question for me. So the thermostat is directly on the outlet of the block. I may be thinking of this wrong as I am a no expert. With the inline mod and the hoses in this configuration, the only flow and movement of coolant until the thermostat opens is through the supply to the heater core and the weephole at the top of the installed thermostat? Am I wrong to assume that fluid flow would be diverged to the heater core supply line when the flow out of the block is dead headed by the closed thermostat until it opens fully? At that point the systems flow rate is equilibrated once the thermostat allows flow?

Thermostats usually fail open right? I mean honestly… I am convinced I can keep a spare thermostat in the vehicle and if need be if the installed thermostat fails for whatever reason. Hot swap it in.

Thank you for reading. Any help or advice is always appreciated. Thank you for offering the screw for the oil pump. I made the best of it for now.

-Gordon Dean

 

Wow, what a post. Let's see if we can unpack it.There were two caps made and sold for our tanks (they also fit e46 BMW's), a 140 kpa and a 200 kpa. They are roughly 15 psi and 20 psi. Even with an aluminum tank the radiator end tanks are still plastic and I have split those. The wye fitting in the lower radiator hose is plastic and I have cracked those. The hoses are rubber and I have split those. The factory clamps are spring clamps and I have blown those off. Even if your cooling system is all new, the original stuff was probably made in the UK or Denmark or Germany, the new stuff is likely made in China. I don't like pressurizing it.

Similar, see below

Interesting thing about the boiling point as well. Just as a pot of boiling water on the stove can never exceed 210, an unpressurized cooling system will start to boil the coolant at 230 and therefore the engine cannot significant exceed that temperatures. Contrast that with a pressurized cooling system and you can easily get the engine to 250 or 260 or 275. Now of course, just like the pot of boiling water if you boil it long enough you run out of coolant, hopefully no one drives a Disco at 230 for any distance.

Send a photo of the underside of the cap and the grooves on the tank. I am going to bet it has set of tangs that hold the cap on and a set of stepped flanges it engages with on the bottle.

Most of those tanks have a two position cap as well. There is a position about a 1/8-1/4 turn from fully close where the cap is held on but not allowing pressure to build. The purpose of these positions is to allow venting a hot system before removing the cap and creating a hot coolant explosion/shower/bath. I took one of those once, took about 6 months for the skin to regrow on my arm.

Not really necessary, but you can do it if you like

The Disco radiator can only hold within 100 degrees of ambient on relatively level ground at 70 mph, so if ambient is 80 it will not be able to keep it below 180, at 95 ambient the best you can hope for is 195. In cooler weather they will typically run 140 without any thermostat.

Yes, the -18 means 180.

I do not, but would not be surprised if the gasket compressed a little bit with a few thermal cycles.

That is correct

Mostly correct. The arrangement of the heater core is one of the reasons Discos are so hard to bleed with the factory thermostat, its also why I recommend the 2500 rpm buzz before the thermostat opens - it forces flow through the heater core to get all the bubbles out. Also - interestingly, once the thermostat opens there is not enough flow at idle to push anything through the heater core. I verified this by removing a heater hose with the truck idling - no flow.


Nope, typically fail closed but have been known to fail open. Usually what happens is they start getting sluggish before they fail completely. For whatever reason the thermal wax in the thermostat element leaks out and once enough is gone it won't open.

Exactly, probably the single biggest advantage of the inline thermostat over a properly functioning factory thermostat.

Thanks for the kind words, hopefully the responses help you and some others understand the system better.

 

FWIW, in both old BMWs and Discos, I've only had thermostats fail open ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Just another data point, OP, for your eval.