Is it possible to fit better brake componets from a different model/make?
#31
11-07-2014, 10:21 PM
Camel Trophy
So what exactly determines how good a caliper is? The more pistons the better the braking?
A little background on my truck. When I picked it up she had 130k on the clock, Goodyear Eagle LS tires on 18" wheels and standard brake rotors and pads (not sure if they were genuine or aftermarket). The brakes were normal I guess but not great. Then I ordered new front calipers and a mid grade brake kit from Atlantic British. No noticeable change in braking. Then I downgraded to 16" wheels and skinny MT tires, next I replaced rear calipers, brake booster, brake master cylinder and upgraded to drilled slotted rotors and ceramic pads. Again I noticed no difference in braking. Then I replaced both front wheel hubs and front ABS sensors.... again no change making. The reason why I spent all that $$$$ on new brake parts is because I thought that the brake system was old and perhaps if I replaced most all the parts then i would have really good braking. Regarding my MT tires, true they wont help with brakes but keep in mind they are not your traditional wide tires. I will get the SS brake lines installed soon but I doubt that will do very much.
Its worth mentioning that before I purchased my current D2, I test drove another vehicle. A 2004 Disco 2 S. Low end model with no bells or whistles. Took her down the road and I was amazed at how quickly she stopped when i put a little bit of pressure on the brake pedal..... I expect as much from my D2.
All this work should pay off with better braking power:
A little background on my truck. When I picked it up she had 130k on the clock, Goodyear Eagle LS tires on 18" wheels and standard brake rotors and pads (not sure if they were genuine or aftermarket). The brakes were normal I guess but not great. Then I ordered new front calipers and a mid grade brake kit from Atlantic British. No noticeable change in braking. Then I downgraded to 16" wheels and skinny MT tires, next I replaced rear calipers, brake booster, brake master cylinder and upgraded to drilled slotted rotors and ceramic pads. Again I noticed no difference in braking. Then I replaced both front wheel hubs and front ABS sensors.... again no change making. The reason why I spent all that $$$$ on new brake parts is because I thought that the brake system was old and perhaps if I replaced most all the parts then i would have really good braking. Regarding my MT tires, true they wont help with brakes but keep in mind they are not your traditional wide tires. I will get the SS brake lines installed soon but I doubt that will do very much.
Its worth mentioning that before I purchased my current D2, I test drove another vehicle. A 2004 Disco 2 S. Low end model with no bells or whistles. Took her down the road and I was amazed at how quickly she stopped when i put a little bit of pressure on the brake pedal..... I expect as much from my D2.
All this work should pay off with better braking power:
#33
11-09-2014, 09:49 PM
As someone else mentioned, tire size makes a lot of difference in effectiveness of brakes. Original tires (255/55/18)'s are aprox, 29" tall, you said you are using (235/85/16)'s which is aprox 31.7" to 32" tall, depending on brand, so that by itself is harder for brake Rotor's to stop. Because U changed the ratio between them, that's why when u want stronger brakes U use bigger Rotor's , to gain advantage in (tire/to/rotor) ratio, but obviously for off road bigger tires R more desirable, so ......it's a give and take.
#34
11-10-2014, 07:11 AM
As someone else mentioned, tire size makes a lot of difference in effectiveness of brakes. Original tires (255/55/18)'s are aprox, 29" tall, you said you are using (235/85/16)'s which is aprox 31.7" to 32" tall, depending on brand, so that by itself is harder for brake Rotor's to stop. Because U changed the ratio between them, that's why when u want stronger brakes U use bigger Rotor's , to gain advantage in (tire/to/rotor) ratio, but obviously for off road bigger tires R more desirable, so ......it's a give and take.
Im considering switching out the pads back to normal pads or perhaps Akebono.... what is so good about Akebono anyways and what materials are they made from? Up until now I assumed Akebono was just another company who made drilled slotted rotors and ceramic brake pads.
How will normal pads be effected when used with slotted drilled rotors? I will be damed if im gonna swap out the new rotors again.... but I can live with changing out the pads.
#35
11-10-2014, 08:06 AM
As mentioned earlier, even when I first got the truck back in late 2012, back when it had the stock 18" wheels and and street tires the braking was disappointing. I have not noticed a difference in braking after adding the 16" wheels and MT's nor have I noticed a difference with the slotted drilled rotors and ceramic pads.
Sounds like you have an underlying issue with your braking system, and just tossing on new pads/rotors will not fix that.
-Brake booster
-Master cylinder
-Brake calipers
I'd check those out first, then start looking into everything in between, like lines and ABS unit.
#36
11-10-2014, 09:23 AM
As stated earlier the booster, master cylinder, brake calipers, rotors and pads are all brand new! No need to check those. The brake system has been flushed a couple times, first by me then by DAP enterprise then again recently by my buddy Rover mechanic so there should be no issue with the brake fluid and no air in the system. My lines are still in good shape. "IF" there really is an issue with my brakes than I suspect it would be related to the ABS slabs block. I paid just over $500 for the booster alone..... my brakes do work, im just not happy with them. It would be nice if a fellow D2 owner lived near by who was familiar with these trucks because I would have him take my truck for a test drive to get his opinion on everything. Perhaps what is normal to other people is abnormal to me?
#37
11-10-2014, 10:31 AM
That's weird. If there is an issue, then maybe it is your ABS block.
I'm trying to think of ways to compare, but really brakes are just something you have to "feel". Hopefully there will be someone around you who can test drive it and give another opinion. Has your rover mechanic driven it?
I do have a car that has much "better" brakes than my rover (2011 M3), so I do have something to compare to on my end. BUT, just driving around, the rover feels just as good... I'm confident that I could put any of my sports-car buddies in my rover and no one would think that the braking system is inadequate.
That's what is making me think that you have some sort of weird underlying issue. Of all the things I could complain about on the rover, braking system isn't one of them!
I'm trying to think of ways to compare, but really brakes are just something you have to "feel". Hopefully there will be someone around you who can test drive it and give another opinion. Has your rover mechanic driven it?
I do have a car that has much "better" brakes than my rover (2011 M3), so I do have something to compare to on my end. BUT, just driving around, the rover feels just as good... I'm confident that I could put any of my sports-car buddies in my rover and no one would think that the braking system is inadequate.
That's what is making me think that you have some sort of weird underlying issue. Of all the things I could complain about on the rover, braking system isn't one of them!
#38
11-10-2014, 05:43 PM
Baja
It's all about fluid mechanics. Disregard the servo assistance at present and consider the master cylinder to caliper piston ratio. It's easily explained here Braking Systems - Engineering Studies - Fluid Mechanics and how brakes operate and the 'work' to surface ratios. The servo only makes braking 'easier' and should make it more progressive. A locked wheel is a locked wheel and then it's all about tire adhesion to the braking road surfaces.
Cadence braking or ABS is to ensure the ability to stop and steer simultaneously and also avoid wheel/brake lock ups and skids and also to avoid overheating and brake fade.
Another big factor is the larger the wheels the greater the leverage exerted and required in stopping them. The larger the wheel the more energy required due the greater rolling leverage. (simple analogy = breaker bar and tight nut but in reversed energy required)
Cadence braking or ABS is to ensure the ability to stop and steer simultaneously and also avoid wheel/brake lock ups and skids and also to avoid overheating and brake fade.
Another big factor is the larger the wheels the greater the leverage exerted and required in stopping them. The larger the wheel the more energy required due the greater rolling leverage. (simple analogy = breaker bar and tight nut but in reversed energy required)
#39
11-10-2014, 08:12 PM
Recovery Vehicle
Rotors
Im sure yours will be fine, but I put those rotors on my wifes Nissan. They lasted almost a year before warping.
One of the first things I did to my D2 was to add some better brakes. Made a huge difference over the stock brakes that were on it.
With this setup, I do not feel like I need any more braking power.
Came with everything to do all 4 corners. Purchased from here:
Front Rear Performance Drilled Slotted Brake Rotors Ceramic Pads Fits Discovery | eBay
With this setup, I do not feel like I need any more braking power.
Came with everything to do all 4 corners. Purchased from here:
Front Rear Performance Drilled Slotted Brake Rotors Ceramic Pads Fits Discovery | eBay
#40
11-11-2014, 01:24 PM
