Should I buy this 99'? Had a mechanic check it out
#71
05-05-2016, 11:30 AM
I certainly prefer the 99-02 D2's myself. CDL Transfer Case, 4.0L without SAI, real glass head lights that don't need polishing, and lower prices vs an 04.
All of my used cars I've never had a shop or mechanic look at it. LR's leaking some fluid like a rear main leak, seepy valve cover gaskets, and a seepy transfer case are considered normal. If you find a LR that doesn't leak anything I'd honestly be wondering if everything was bone dry.
It seems to me like the earlier D2's LR was trying to really sell so the quality was higher vs the 03/04's where they knew the LR3 was coming out so they just rolled em out of the factory as fast as they could so they could start the LR3 production.
My very very first LR was a 97 D1 SE. I had a 4x4 Nissan Xterra that was a complete POS. Leaked coolant that no Nissan Dealership could solve (under warranty), AC line blew out at the cost of 500.00 (later that line was recalled....), and it's 4x4 system was a complete joke... One day it wouldn't start in my garage and every single relay was tripping out. Disconnected the battery, drove to 7Eleven, to get a drink, saw an Auto Mart with a Rio Red D1 on the cover. Called on it, (at a well known Toyota Dealership in Austin), arrived to find the used car salesman going thru the manual. Took it for a test drive and scared the salesman to death by flooring it onto the freeway. Bought it without ever looking under the hood. I figured I had nothing to loose as my Xterra spent nearly it's entire life in the shop.
I had that 97 D1 for 6-8 months before I was in a very severe Roll Over accident (not the LR's fault but a 10 point buck on an S curve). I took it to the LR Dealership to grab some misc parts. They heard the cat's rattling, asked if I had 30min, I said yes, they took it around back, slapped on a new set cat's and setup an appointment for two service campaigns to be done for absolutely 0.00!!! I still to this day have never been treated as good as how LR treats anyone that drives one of their vehicles. I've been hooked ever since.
Things to Look For/Inspect:
1. Take an OBDII scanner like Scangauge and let the D2 idle and warm up, if the temps go over 205F at idle I'd pass.
2. Crawl under it and inspect rear frame area for rust.
3. Look for leaks from the usual area's.
4. Try every single thing electric windows, locks, lights, sun roofs, stereo, horn, and wipers.
5. Engage N, 4Lo, and back to 4Hi to check operation and check Ebrake at the same time.
6. Check Master Cylinder for leaking reservoir seals (not a big deal), but something to knock some $$$ off.
7. When you have the key on inspect all warning lights for proper operation.
8. On the test drive engage Sport Mode and drive it hard to see how it shifts (it's not yours yet). LR Dealership used to test for excess carbon deposits by leaving it in 1st gear and going to the rev limiter. If you look back and it looks like someone rolling coal it's been driven by a grandma and is full of carbon.
9. Inspect headliner for stains near pillar's (sunroof leaks which doesn't make me run away unless the floor is rusted thru).
10. The most important one to me = Talk to the owner. If they seem to care less about letting the LR go, or can't answer a single question then they probably have cared less on it's upkeep/care. If they seem very passionate, and sad to sell it, but happy to sell it to a fellow LR lover then you'll be fine.
Sorry for the long novel, but good luck with your LR hunting, and my brother is up in Forest Grove, OR with a 92 RRC and 06 LR3. If you find one near there let me know and I'll see if he can swing by or if he knows about it.
All of my used cars I've never had a shop or mechanic look at it. LR's leaking some fluid like a rear main leak, seepy valve cover gaskets, and a seepy transfer case are considered normal. If you find a LR that doesn't leak anything I'd honestly be wondering if everything was bone dry.
It seems to me like the earlier D2's LR was trying to really sell so the quality was higher vs the 03/04's where they knew the LR3 was coming out so they just rolled em out of the factory as fast as they could so they could start the LR3 production.
My very very first LR was a 97 D1 SE. I had a 4x4 Nissan Xterra that was a complete POS. Leaked coolant that no Nissan Dealership could solve (under warranty), AC line blew out at the cost of 500.00 (later that line was recalled....), and it's 4x4 system was a complete joke... One day it wouldn't start in my garage and every single relay was tripping out. Disconnected the battery, drove to 7Eleven, to get a drink, saw an Auto Mart with a Rio Red D1 on the cover. Called on it, (at a well known Toyota Dealership in Austin), arrived to find the used car salesman going thru the manual. Took it for a test drive and scared the salesman to death by flooring it onto the freeway. Bought it without ever looking under the hood. I figured I had nothing to loose as my Xterra spent nearly it's entire life in the shop.
I had that 97 D1 for 6-8 months before I was in a very severe Roll Over accident (not the LR's fault but a 10 point buck on an S curve). I took it to the LR Dealership to grab some misc parts. They heard the cat's rattling, asked if I had 30min, I said yes, they took it around back, slapped on a new set cat's and setup an appointment for two service campaigns to be done for absolutely 0.00!!! I still to this day have never been treated as good as how LR treats anyone that drives one of their vehicles. I've been hooked ever since.
Things to Look For/Inspect:
1. Take an OBDII scanner like Scangauge and let the D2 idle and warm up, if the temps go over 205F at idle I'd pass.
2. Crawl under it and inspect rear frame area for rust.
3. Look for leaks from the usual area's.
4. Try every single thing electric windows, locks, lights, sun roofs, stereo, horn, and wipers.
5. Engage N, 4Lo, and back to 4Hi to check operation and check Ebrake at the same time.
6. Check Master Cylinder for leaking reservoir seals (not a big deal), but something to knock some $$$ off.
7. When you have the key on inspect all warning lights for proper operation.
8. On the test drive engage Sport Mode and drive it hard to see how it shifts (it's not yours yet). LR Dealership used to test for excess carbon deposits by leaving it in 1st gear and going to the rev limiter. If you look back and it looks like someone rolling coal it's been driven by a grandma and is full of carbon.
9. Inspect headliner for stains near pillar's (sunroof leaks which doesn't make me run away unless the floor is rusted thru).
10. The most important one to me = Talk to the owner. If they seem to care less about letting the LR go, or can't answer a single question then they probably have cared less on it's upkeep/care. If they seem very passionate, and sad to sell it, but happy to sell it to a fellow LR lover then you'll be fine.
Sorry for the long novel, but good luck with your LR hunting, and my brother is up in Forest Grove, OR with a 92 RRC and 06 LR3. If you find one near there let me know and I'll see if he can swing by or if he knows about it.
- How can I determine if there are any coolant leaks? These seem like the non-starters.
- Way to gauge condition of engine, has the liner slipped, etc? Check for coolant leaks, engine codes (misfires), ticking, tapping, etc
- How to spot a likely head gasket job? w/ pictures?
I'm considering having an inspection done on the '04 w/ 88k and engine issues. PDX British, in Portland, is right near it and could take a look at evaluate cost. The mechanic also has a lead on buying used engines. If it can be bought for $3-4k (listed for $5k), and worst case needs a new engine - might even consider the Atlantic British remanufactured long block for $7k? Whats an estimate to install this? And whats on estimate on a rebuild (pinning the sleeves, etc)? This could also make the car hold its value much better?
It seems like the highest quality Rovers have owners that know their 'worth' - so they're selling for $8-9-10k plus anyway.
#72
05-05-2016, 11:31 AM
Super Moderator
Haha I've got a fever and I need more LR/CL/Cowbell..
The 03 D2 parts truck I got is actually in excellent shape besides the motor (CL Find). If it had a donor 4.0/4.6L dropped into it I could probably sell it for 3K, but honestly it's worth more to me in parts. Having my own pick n pull is priceless!!!! I removed the new radiator (previous owner thought that was the fix) and upon removing some stuff I inspected the thermostat to find it completely stuck shut and actually one of the openings on top melted onto the metal valve causing 100% blockage.... Darn 80.00 OEM part caused a 4.6L to overheat and die at 128k....
Interior is clean, body is clean minus one dent under the LR tail light. I've taken the master cylinder off (put leaky one in it's place), and the Ebrake assembly. Eventually I'd like to transfer the black interior into the 99 or put the seats into my Kalahari and save the Kalahari seats. I may start listing some parts on here as well or CL. Engine still cranks and runs, but over heats quickly. I crank it long enough to move it in/out of my garage. I think the thermostat overheated it, and unless the block is cracked I also think the front timing cover leaks coolant into the engine as I changed the oil as a CYA and upon two start ups the oil is starbucks mocha latte. I've removed 99% of the coolant and I'll change the oil again to keep any internal parts for rusting.
The 03 D2 parts truck I got is actually in excellent shape besides the motor (CL Find). If it had a donor 4.0/4.6L dropped into it I could probably sell it for 3K, but honestly it's worth more to me in parts. Having my own pick n pull is priceless!!!! I removed the new radiator (previous owner thought that was the fix) and upon removing some stuff I inspected the thermostat to find it completely stuck shut and actually one of the openings on top melted onto the metal valve causing 100% blockage.... Darn 80.00 OEM part caused a 4.6L to overheat and die at 128k....
Interior is clean, body is clean minus one dent under the LR tail light. I've taken the master cylinder off (put leaky one in it's place), and the Ebrake assembly. Eventually I'd like to transfer the black interior into the 99 or put the seats into my Kalahari and save the Kalahari seats. I may start listing some parts on here as well or CL. Engine still cranks and runs, but over heats quickly. I crank it long enough to move it in/out of my garage. I think the thermostat overheated it, and unless the block is cracked I also think the front timing cover leaks coolant into the engine as I changed the oil as a CYA and upon two start ups the oil is starbucks mocha latte. I've removed 99% of the coolant and I'll change the oil again to keep any internal parts for rusting.
#73
05-05-2016, 12:01 PM
Super Moderator
Jeff, coolant leaks on a D2 = first thing to look at is the coolant jug. If it's over filled chances are the owner is topping it off, then I would check under the throttle body and inspect the throttle body heater. If it's still running Dexcool it won't be hard to spot leaks as you'll see a pinkish slim near the ends of any hose or gasket that is leaking.
Throttle Body Heater is a very common leak spot on D2's. I personally delete it and bypass it on all my Bosch D2's. I live in TX so heating the throttle body is not something I need. Up north in Canada I could see it possibly, but I've only heard of one throttle body sticking and who knows if it was due to that or the condition of the actual throttle body.
Next up after that is the hard lines running from the jug to throttle body heater, and to the jug to radiator overflow. The hard plastic lines get brittle, and snap causing you to loose coolant at a steady rate until BOOM.... I replace the line with 5/16 rubber hose line and when I bypass the throttle body heater I go directly from the intake manifold to the coolant jug.
You want to make sure the power steering isn't leaking, the brake master cylinder isn't leaking, and that the ABS Modulator/SLABS unit doesn't have brake fluid leaking out of it or under it. I've never seen a completely oil free LR. Sure after a fresh rebuild maybe but eventually they all will get little oil leaks. If it has a oil leak like in that video posted on this forum not to long ago RUN.....
Like I said coolant wise just look at all the hoses, radiator, jug, throttle body heater, and if the heads are seeping coolant from the front or rear of the heads (not a deal breaker as long as no coolant is making it's way into the engine).
When looking at a D2 unless the owner had to move it out of the garage I prefer being there for a 100% cold start up. You can tell a lot about an engine by how it sounds at start up, how long the oil light takes to go off, and clacking/ticking, if it has SAI how does the SAI blower/pump sound. Once it warms up at idle or after a test drive monitor the temp (DO NOT use the gauge) use a hand held scanner or OBDII tool. Then shut it off, which is a perfect time to test all electronics, and check the frame, and for any leaks. You want the coolant hoses to be firm, but not rock hard (I have seen some aftermarket hoses be extremely stiff), but it should squeeze normal. If it's rock hard chances are exhaust gasses are entering the coolant system and pressurizing it.
If you can look it over for at least 15min with the engine off do a restart. How does it idle? Does it run rough and smooth out? If it starts up and idles fine great, if it starts up rough, and smooths out eventually on it's own you probably have coolant entering a cylinder and it runs rough until it burns it off.
Brake wise most D2's that aren't cared for will suffer the 3 Amigo's or as I've seen 4 Amigo's on the 03/04 models. That means the ABS system either has a bad sensor, or the SLABS unit itself has a fault. The brakes will work, but TC, ABS function, and Hill Decent Control will be INOP. Reservoir seals are kind of common now to be leaking. You can either replace the seals for 60.00 or the entire master cylinder for around 150.00.
Check AC & Heater operation. If the heater never seems to get warm look under the hood on the passenger side and see if the heater core hoses have been bypassed. If you smell a sweet smell when the heater is on check the passenger footwell for being wet (signs of a leaking heater core).
Check dipstick for any signs of varnish (some is normal), but if it's so covered in crap that you can't read the level the motor most likely has sludge in it. Also remove the oil filler cap and inspect it for signs of sludge or white milky goo (signs of moisture in the engine).
On 03/04 models with the 4.6L more than likely the airbox clips will be broken. They made the airbox opening slightly larger and it made the airboxes delicate at the latches. Lids for 03/04 models are $$ vs 4.0L models. It's a common thing to find broken. You'll also probably find the windshield cowl where the wipers are cracked or broken. That is another trim piece that is common to find broken.
Interior wise check seat operation (doubt the heaters will work but you can always fix that later) Check for proper warning lights illuminating before start up. If CEL, or ABS stuff doesn't show up it's more than likely been covered up...
Rest is pretty much normal inspection stuff. If everything above passes make an offer, and go from there. The engine stuff to me is the most critical. Also normally if a vehicle looks brand new on the inside/outside it could be a sleeping dragon. Meaning yeah she looks great, but mechanically it's trashed. I prefer to find one with a few nicks/scratches, with normal wear & tear, but mechanically in fantastic shape. Paint and trim pieces are much easier to fix vs electronic gremlins or engines!
Throttle Body Heater is a very common leak spot on D2's. I personally delete it and bypass it on all my Bosch D2's. I live in TX so heating the throttle body is not something I need. Up north in Canada I could see it possibly, but I've only heard of one throttle body sticking and who knows if it was due to that or the condition of the actual throttle body.
Next up after that is the hard lines running from the jug to throttle body heater, and to the jug to radiator overflow. The hard plastic lines get brittle, and snap causing you to loose coolant at a steady rate until BOOM.... I replace the line with 5/16 rubber hose line and when I bypass the throttle body heater I go directly from the intake manifold to the coolant jug.
You want to make sure the power steering isn't leaking, the brake master cylinder isn't leaking, and that the ABS Modulator/SLABS unit doesn't have brake fluid leaking out of it or under it. I've never seen a completely oil free LR. Sure after a fresh rebuild maybe but eventually they all will get little oil leaks. If it has a oil leak like in that video posted on this forum not to long ago RUN.....
Like I said coolant wise just look at all the hoses, radiator, jug, throttle body heater, and if the heads are seeping coolant from the front or rear of the heads (not a deal breaker as long as no coolant is making it's way into the engine).
When looking at a D2 unless the owner had to move it out of the garage I prefer being there for a 100% cold start up. You can tell a lot about an engine by how it sounds at start up, how long the oil light takes to go off, and clacking/ticking, if it has SAI how does the SAI blower/pump sound. Once it warms up at idle or after a test drive monitor the temp (DO NOT use the gauge) use a hand held scanner or OBDII tool. Then shut it off, which is a perfect time to test all electronics, and check the frame, and for any leaks. You want the coolant hoses to be firm, but not rock hard (I have seen some aftermarket hoses be extremely stiff), but it should squeeze normal. If it's rock hard chances are exhaust gasses are entering the coolant system and pressurizing it.
If you can look it over for at least 15min with the engine off do a restart. How does it idle? Does it run rough and smooth out? If it starts up and idles fine great, if it starts up rough, and smooths out eventually on it's own you probably have coolant entering a cylinder and it runs rough until it burns it off.
Brake wise most D2's that aren't cared for will suffer the 3 Amigo's or as I've seen 4 Amigo's on the 03/04 models. That means the ABS system either has a bad sensor, or the SLABS unit itself has a fault. The brakes will work, but TC, ABS function, and Hill Decent Control will be INOP. Reservoir seals are kind of common now to be leaking. You can either replace the seals for 60.00 or the entire master cylinder for around 150.00.
Check AC & Heater operation. If the heater never seems to get warm look under the hood on the passenger side and see if the heater core hoses have been bypassed. If you smell a sweet smell when the heater is on check the passenger footwell for being wet (signs of a leaking heater core).
Check dipstick for any signs of varnish (some is normal), but if it's so covered in crap that you can't read the level the motor most likely has sludge in it. Also remove the oil filler cap and inspect it for signs of sludge or white milky goo (signs of moisture in the engine).
On 03/04 models with the 4.6L more than likely the airbox clips will be broken. They made the airbox opening slightly larger and it made the airboxes delicate at the latches. Lids for 03/04 models are $$ vs 4.0L models. It's a common thing to find broken. You'll also probably find the windshield cowl where the wipers are cracked or broken. That is another trim piece that is common to find broken.
Interior wise check seat operation (doubt the heaters will work but you can always fix that later) Check for proper warning lights illuminating before start up. If CEL, or ABS stuff doesn't show up it's more than likely been covered up...
Rest is pretty much normal inspection stuff. If everything above passes make an offer, and go from there. The engine stuff to me is the most critical. Also normally if a vehicle looks brand new on the inside/outside it could be a sleeping dragon. Meaning yeah she looks great, but mechanically it's trashed. I prefer to find one with a few nicks/scratches, with normal wear & tear, but mechanically in fantastic shape. Paint and trim pieces are much easier to fix vs electronic gremlins or engines!
The following users liked this post:
Jeff Blake (05-05-2016)
#74
05-05-2016, 12:13 PM
Nice! I haven't packed this much knowledge into my head in some time. Feels good. I just bought an iCarsoft LR II ODB2 scanner ($200), after quite a bit of research this seems like the right unit as its LR specific, and can pull both engine codes and ABS codes. (Land Rover Jaguar Diagnostic Scanner Tool SRS ABS Brake Reset Icarsoft Lrii I930 | eBay)
#75
05-05-2016, 12:15 PM
Recovery Vehicle
#76
05-05-2016, 01:20 PM
Super Moderator
Sad but yeah most people are out to trick ya these days. I normally say I'm 30min out and show up early to catch em off guard before they run to clear codes or start it. On SAI D2's a warm start up can hide a loud or inop SAI pump cause it would have already cycled (normally on cold starts only).
I was honestly expecting my 1500.00 to sound god awful after sitting untouched for 4 months, but nope not a clack a tick or an oil light that didn't go off. I was truly amazed at that!
I was honestly expecting my 1500.00 to sound god awful after sitting untouched for 4 months, but nope not a clack a tick or an oil light that didn't go off. I was truly amazed at that!
#77
05-05-2016, 01:45 PM
How about pre test-drive questions over the phone?
- Let owner describe the vehicle and any mechanical issues: ticking, lights, leaks, engine codes, abs codes, rust, sagging headliner, wet carpet area in front, has it ever overheated. Recent mechanics report available?
- Get pictures of under the hood
- How many months and miles he's owned it for. Is he an enthusiast? Are there full service records? If he did the work himself, let him describe everything. If the owner can't tell you much about the vehicle, is this always a pass? For ex, I'm speaking with one guy now who's owned his for 3 months, knows nothing about it, but bought it from a Rover enthusiast.. a realtor in Bend OR, but can't provide contact info.
- Why are you selling the car?
- Any specific questions whether owner is a dealer or private party?
- Describe all maintenance and upgrades performed. Was oil changed regularly? coolant? etc. What oil and coolant does he use?
- Do the sun roofs leak?
- Has the drive shaft been updated w/ greasable u-joints
- If 03, 04, has the air bagged suspension been switched to coils?
- If 03, check VIN number range for oil pump issue. Probably stay away.
- Have the head gaskets been replaced?
- Get carfax. Warning signs: many owners, lack of service records by LR dealer, non-clean title obviously
The only problem is that if you get a dishonest seller then all the above questions are more or less moot.
- Let owner describe the vehicle and any mechanical issues: ticking, lights, leaks, engine codes, abs codes, rust, sagging headliner, wet carpet area in front, has it ever overheated. Recent mechanics report available?
- Get pictures of under the hood
- How many months and miles he's owned it for. Is he an enthusiast? Are there full service records? If he did the work himself, let him describe everything. If the owner can't tell you much about the vehicle, is this always a pass? For ex, I'm speaking with one guy now who's owned his for 3 months, knows nothing about it, but bought it from a Rover enthusiast.. a realtor in Bend OR, but can't provide contact info.
- Why are you selling the car?
- Any specific questions whether owner is a dealer or private party?
- Describe all maintenance and upgrades performed. Was oil changed regularly? coolant? etc. What oil and coolant does he use?
- Do the sun roofs leak?
- Has the drive shaft been updated w/ greasable u-joints
- If 03, 04, has the air bagged suspension been switched to coils?
- If 03, check VIN number range for oil pump issue. Probably stay away.
- Have the head gaskets been replaced?
- Get carfax. Warning signs: many owners, lack of service records by LR dealer, non-clean title obviously
The only problem is that if you get a dishonest seller then all the above questions are more or less moot.
Last edited by Jeff Blake; 05-05-2016 at 01:48 PM.
#78
05-05-2016, 02:09 PM
This is the current Rover to get, nationwide.
#79
05-05-2016, 04:26 PM
This one looks sweet, enthusiast owned, but red is the one color I can't do 2004 LIFTED 7 seater LOW Miles DISCOVERY Land Rover
#80
05-05-2016, 04:31 PM
The 1500.00 LR is even better than just being 1500.00 lol, not sure if ya'll remember my 98 D1 was rear ended. I had to go to war with the dudes insurance company (AVOID TRAVELERS AT ALL COST......) They finally settled my claim and DID NOT TOTAL my 98 D1 and the title is still clean. I fixed my 98 D1 myself for around $300.00 with it just costing me $$$ in parts (rear bumper, and misc trim & the body shop wanted 4300.00 as they were LR Clueless...) I had zero paint damage, so with the left over $$$$ I was able to grab a perfectly fine D2 and still have $$$$ in my pocket.
Can't beat that with a stick!! I watch CL like a hawk lol and I can spot the village bicycles and the good deals instantly. I'd avoid anything from the Houston area for a good while as I'm sure some LR's were under water after all the recent flooding!
Can't beat that with a stick!! I watch CL like a hawk lol and I can spot the village bicycles and the good deals instantly. I'd avoid anything from the Houston area for a good while as I'm sure some LR's were under water after all the recent flooding!
The one that got hit by the Ford. Right? Just remembered. Glad you got it going. Body shops are such a ripoff.