Towing with a 2000ish Disco 2?
#11
03-18-2012, 01:36 PM
#12
03-19-2012, 10:19 AM
I'm going to weigh in on this, just because I tow stuff for a living. I personally would NOT use this vehicle for towing that much weight.
Here is why: towing, as you know, puts a good bit of strain on engines, transmissions, etc. By the time you properly modify your cooling systems in both the engine and driveline, you could buy a good used diesel, and get a LOT better mileage.
This engine towing something of that size is going to get about 7mpg. Ford's 5.4L v-8 towing that load gets about 8.5-9. Couple that with your need for PREMIUM gas, ($4.03 around atlanta right now) and that is going to be one hell of a fuel bill.
Also - towing that big a load with a car like this is just flat not safe. A load that size moving at highway speeds has a ton of potential energy and momentum, and will push the tow vehicle around badly in the event of an emergency.
And it doesn't matter how good a driver YOU are - the problem is the moron on his cell phone, texting, driving, starbucks on his lap, yelling at the kids in the back - they can ruin your morning in a hurry. Jerking the wheel, locking up your trailer brakes, a little jack-knife push on the rear axle of these cars at highway speeds, and you're going a$$ over teakettle into the ditch/hospital/morgue.
I see a LOT of accidents with people towing with improper vehicles. For a load that size, get a good used work truck, (my personal favorite are the late 90's and early 2000's fords with the 7.3L), tune it, and watch yourself tow a load that size safely and with 16-18mpg. Even the delta in fuel will pay for itself over time. Parts are plentiful and cheap, and most importantly, you will be SAFE ON THE ROAD in it with that load.
If you want a disco, get one. I love mine. They're awesome trucks, and will do anything you want within reason, but please don't put 2.5 tons behind one and go down the road. There are better ways to make the 5 o'clock news.
Here is why: towing, as you know, puts a good bit of strain on engines, transmissions, etc. By the time you properly modify your cooling systems in both the engine and driveline, you could buy a good used diesel, and get a LOT better mileage.
This engine towing something of that size is going to get about 7mpg. Ford's 5.4L v-8 towing that load gets about 8.5-9. Couple that with your need for PREMIUM gas, ($4.03 around atlanta right now) and that is going to be one hell of a fuel bill.
Also - towing that big a load with a car like this is just flat not safe. A load that size moving at highway speeds has a ton of potential energy and momentum, and will push the tow vehicle around badly in the event of an emergency.
And it doesn't matter how good a driver YOU are - the problem is the moron on his cell phone, texting, driving, starbucks on his lap, yelling at the kids in the back - they can ruin your morning in a hurry. Jerking the wheel, locking up your trailer brakes, a little jack-knife push on the rear axle of these cars at highway speeds, and you're going a$$ over teakettle into the ditch/hospital/morgue.
I see a LOT of accidents with people towing with improper vehicles. For a load that size, get a good used work truck, (my personal favorite are the late 90's and early 2000's fords with the 7.3L), tune it, and watch yourself tow a load that size safely and with 16-18mpg. Even the delta in fuel will pay for itself over time. Parts are plentiful and cheap, and most importantly, you will be SAFE ON THE ROAD in it with that load.
If you want a disco, get one. I love mine. They're awesome trucks, and will do anything you want within reason, but please don't put 2.5 tons behind one and go down the road. There are better ways to make the 5 o'clock news.
So, safe for towing, what makes something safer or not? Wheelbase? Weight?
My use for towing would be once a month, under 100miles away, nothing more. I agree totally with the pinheads on the road. My daily commute is 52 miles one way. They're always the problem.
Dave
Last edited by Ghaniba; 03-19-2012 at 10:21 AM. Reason: Forgot to mentions...
#13
03-19-2012, 10:52 AM
#14
03-19-2012, 12:25 PM
#16
03-19-2012, 02:07 PM
#17
03-19-2012, 05:29 PM
Dave,
Safe ratios are kind of subjective, but I'll outline it as best i can. I tow HEAVY stuff - my trailer is a 24' deckover, with twin 8K axles, and I frequently weigh (truck, trailer, load, fuel, dog, diet coke, etc) north of 23-25K. The trailer alone, unloaded, comes in at 4250#.
I use F-350 duallies to tow with, because the extra set of tires helps keep the back of the vehicle from swaying.
If you were going to pull a 5K load, I would want a vehicle that weighs about the same, or slightly more than the load.
Part of this is that although most of the time the vehicle is pulling the trailer, in a some situations, including pin-head commuter encounters, the load pushes back. The most dangerous part of this is the loss of control of the tow vehicle's rear axle. If it gets pushed around too hard and loses traction, you are in a world of hurt.
This can be exacerbated by wear on tires, rain, heat, quality of trailer/tow vehicle braking components and controllers, and a few other factors. Load balance is also a factor.
Ideally, you want 55-60% of the load on the tongue side of the trailer. Your vehicle, hitch and trailer brakes should be rated for that tongue load. The way most trailers are built, the load cube (centerpoint of load mass, based on density and L x W x H, should be centered over the front axle of a trailer. Don't get a single axle to haul that kind of weight.
That same ratio applies to braking, that your tow vehicle should carry 55-60% of the braking load. That, coupled with a nice controller (Tekonsha Prodigy or similar w/accelerometer) gives you the safety margin that you need when something goes amiss.
In regards to tow vehicle, an F-250 with an extended cab and 8' bed is fine for around town. I live in the middle of Atlanta and pilot a dually around all the time. Makes merging in traffic a breeze.
The other thing to consider is that towing likes to cook automatic transmissions, specifically, the torque converters. A smaller transmission and transfer case like the disco has will heat up a lot more. That heat will KILL the clutch packs and seals in most autos in a big hurry. Larger capacity systems will tolerate that heat much better.
a 2WD vehicle will turn a LOT tighter as well - just get those ball joints inspected before you buy - not a cheap fix.
Guy named Bill Hewitt has a good video series on his site about things to look for in a used powerstroke. Check out powerstrokehelp.com.
I like the 7.3L a lot, there are dodge fans out there as well, but I feel that the ford is the best blend of good motor, drivetrain, and overall quality build for body, trim and interior components.
Tuning and monitoring is important on those motors, but that's a whole new ball of wax. With a few mild upgrades, you will be seeing 22mpg+ highway and 18mpg around town. With 5K load, maybe 16-18 highway and 14 around town. With a diesel, the biggest factor is the loose nut behind the wheel.
Good luck and let us know what you find.
Oh, and buy a disco. Just don't tow with it!
Safe ratios are kind of subjective, but I'll outline it as best i can. I tow HEAVY stuff - my trailer is a 24' deckover, with twin 8K axles, and I frequently weigh (truck, trailer, load, fuel, dog, diet coke, etc) north of 23-25K. The trailer alone, unloaded, comes in at 4250#.
I use F-350 duallies to tow with, because the extra set of tires helps keep the back of the vehicle from swaying.
If you were going to pull a 5K load, I would want a vehicle that weighs about the same, or slightly more than the load.
Part of this is that although most of the time the vehicle is pulling the trailer, in a some situations, including pin-head commuter encounters, the load pushes back. The most dangerous part of this is the loss of control of the tow vehicle's rear axle. If it gets pushed around too hard and loses traction, you are in a world of hurt.
This can be exacerbated by wear on tires, rain, heat, quality of trailer/tow vehicle braking components and controllers, and a few other factors. Load balance is also a factor.
Ideally, you want 55-60% of the load on the tongue side of the trailer. Your vehicle, hitch and trailer brakes should be rated for that tongue load. The way most trailers are built, the load cube (centerpoint of load mass, based on density and L x W x H, should be centered over the front axle of a trailer. Don't get a single axle to haul that kind of weight.
That same ratio applies to braking, that your tow vehicle should carry 55-60% of the braking load. That, coupled with a nice controller (Tekonsha Prodigy or similar w/accelerometer) gives you the safety margin that you need when something goes amiss.
In regards to tow vehicle, an F-250 with an extended cab and 8' bed is fine for around town. I live in the middle of Atlanta and pilot a dually around all the time. Makes merging in traffic a breeze.
The other thing to consider is that towing likes to cook automatic transmissions, specifically, the torque converters. A smaller transmission and transfer case like the disco has will heat up a lot more. That heat will KILL the clutch packs and seals in most autos in a big hurry. Larger capacity systems will tolerate that heat much better.
a 2WD vehicle will turn a LOT tighter as well - just get those ball joints inspected before you buy - not a cheap fix.
Guy named Bill Hewitt has a good video series on his site about things to look for in a used powerstroke. Check out powerstrokehelp.com.
I like the 7.3L a lot, there are dodge fans out there as well, but I feel that the ford is the best blend of good motor, drivetrain, and overall quality build for body, trim and interior components.
Tuning and monitoring is important on those motors, but that's a whole new ball of wax. With a few mild upgrades, you will be seeing 22mpg+ highway and 18mpg around town. With 5K load, maybe 16-18 highway and 14 around town. With a diesel, the biggest factor is the loose nut behind the wheel.
Good luck and let us know what you find.
Oh, and buy a disco. Just don't tow with it!
#18
03-19-2012, 07:34 PM
Recovery Vehicle
I am no towing expert here, but I will share what I have done with my D2 over the past 3 yrs. I have a 23' travel trailer that has a dry wt of 3,500#. I load it light, so probably about 4000-4100#s loaded. With the 4L V8 D2, I can really tell it is back there when towing. In regard to the wt, specs say 5,500#, I believe, on the D2, but that is before you start adding any people or gear to the D2. Funny how the towing capacity is more on the Euro models, per the owner's manual closer to 7000#. A 10% safety factory is also recommend when it comes calculating you towing capacity from what I read, I would guess with the boxy travel trailer and the weight, I am about at the max. capacity I would want to tow with the D2.
I will tell you with the short wheel base D2, and the 23' travel trailer, it is manageable with a HD suspension and sway control on the trailer, BUT, you have to stay alert. I use mine to tow within about 2-3 hr radius of home 5-10 times a year. It works, but I would much prefer a full size pickup with a longer wheel base, and larger engine. I have had a couple of occasions with some crosswinds where that long tail behind my short wheel based D2 made me feel like the trailer was pulling me around, rather than me pulling it.
It takes the hills slow, and you will need to use 3rd gear a lot on most any grade to keep up any reasonable speed loading down the engine most all the time. I towed it when I brought it home when purchased used with no trailer brakes, and it was a bit scary a few times. I use a Prodigy brake controller with new brakes all around on the trailer and new tires on it as well once I got it home, and much better. If you have a lift, you need to be even more careful, I would say. I am at stock height on my D2 for now. The 4.6L in the '03-'04 would help in regard to making the trip at a little better speeds, but handling would be the same I would guess.
I will tell you with the short wheel base D2, and the 23' travel trailer, it is manageable with a HD suspension and sway control on the trailer, BUT, you have to stay alert. I use mine to tow within about 2-3 hr radius of home 5-10 times a year. It works, but I would much prefer a full size pickup with a longer wheel base, and larger engine. I have had a couple of occasions with some crosswinds where that long tail behind my short wheel based D2 made me feel like the trailer was pulling me around, rather than me pulling it.
It takes the hills slow, and you will need to use 3rd gear a lot on most any grade to keep up any reasonable speed loading down the engine most all the time. I towed it when I brought it home when purchased used with no trailer brakes, and it was a bit scary a few times. I use a Prodigy brake controller with new brakes all around on the trailer and new tires on it as well once I got it home, and much better. If you have a lift, you need to be even more careful, I would say. I am at stock height on my D2 for now. The 4.6L in the '03-'04 would help in regard to making the trip at a little better speeds, but handling would be the same I would guess.
Last edited by Rover_Hokie; 03-19-2012 at 07:37 PM.
#19
03-19-2012, 09:49 PM
If you are towing that little go for it if that is what you really want.
Or you can sell the Zuk, mod the Rover just alittle and still offroad the hell out of it and use it as a daily driver.
#20
03-19-2012, 10:07 PM
I have an 01 discoII. I pull a lift weighing in at 7000lbs,on a trailer weighing 2000 givin the rated towing capacity is 7700lbs i am kinda pushing my luck. I do have trailer brakes.But as far as power it handles it just fine.I wont win a drag race with it but it handles hills and everything just fine.I did get rid of the air bags and installed the spring and shock kit wich disabled the auto leveling but it allows greater travel off road