2006 LR3 Wont Drive in Any Gear
#12
08-16-2018, 07:50 PM
so you think it is toast with no chance of recovery? Care to elaborate on why you think this? I bought this lr3 with the full intention or replacing the transmission but if i can get away with not i would prefer it. Do you have experience with Lr3 transmission that seem to have leaked significant amounts of fluid?
#13
08-17-2018, 05:12 AM
If the vehicle would not budge, but adding some fluid has brought some life back, you have now identified the problem.
The trans.
If it was run that low on fluid, there is no way it’s not toast. Anything you do from here besides a full rebuild is flushing money down the toilet.
amazingly, we bought a factory ZF trans through Land Rover a couple months back for $3700. Came with a new mechatronics Unit. If you get a quote for just the mechatronics they are over $3k.
if you do a rebuild you will need to swap in your mechatronics unit as it is VIN coded.
The trans.
If it was run that low on fluid, there is no way it’s not toast. Anything you do from here besides a full rebuild is flushing money down the toilet.
amazingly, we bought a factory ZF trans through Land Rover a couple months back for $3700. Came with a new mechatronics Unit. If you get a quote for just the mechatronics they are over $3k.
if you do a rebuild you will need to swap in your mechatronics unit as it is VIN coded.
#14
08-17-2018, 05:17 AM
As to the experience question, yes. We run a shop. I have rebuilt a trans with the guidance of a tech that we hire for side jobs. He also builds transmissions for us.
I’ve also serviced too many transmissions to count.
Under adequate maintenance conditions the items that usually fail the most are the brass bushings with some questionable wear on the clutches. Under the conditions you describe it’s likely bushings, clutches, steel plates, torque converter, and valve body.
Anyways, once in there is is negligent to not rebuild and replace all parts including solenoids.
I’ve also serviced too many transmissions to count.
Under adequate maintenance conditions the items that usually fail the most are the brass bushings with some questionable wear on the clutches. Under the conditions you describe it’s likely bushings, clutches, steel plates, torque converter, and valve body.
Anyways, once in there is is negligent to not rebuild and replace all parts including solenoids.
Last edited by abran; 08-17-2018 at 05:21 AM.
#15
08-17-2018, 09:31 AM
I don't think your "wasting money" by topping off the fluid to the correct level. Even if you went as far as replacing the filter and pan, you could use the pan on your replacement trans if it's shot. Simple fact is that you have to decide how much of your time and money you want to spend diagnosing this. Your options have already been addressed above... continue to diagnose or replace. I do agree that 3 qts low is quite a bit and there is a good chance of internal damage if it was driven until it wouldn't move anymore, which I would think would be way before it was 3 qts + low. So where did all that fluid go? Hard to say. I can't imagine the mechatronic seal allowing fluid to leak out after the fluid has settled into the pan when parked for a length of time, but it's possible.
Just out of curiosity, is there any discoloration of the engine coolant... as if there was trans fluid mixed in it?
Just out of curiosity, is there any discoloration of the engine coolant... as if there was trans fluid mixed in it?
Last edited by 5280LR3; 08-17-2018 at 09:53 AM.
#16
08-17-2018, 04:54 PM
thank you both for the info and input
I put a little over one more quart in to fill it up totaling up to 4+ quarts added. Tried it out and feels about the same as it did with three quarts added so I've obviously got some internal issues, as expected.
My choice is now to have it rebuilt, buy a used transmission, or try to rebuild the transmission myself (I'm not willing to shell out $3700+ for a new transmission).
I called a re-builder and waiting to hear back from him on a price and what he would include in the rebuild
If I put in a used transmission I understand that i will need to switch the mechanics because they are vin specific.Is it likely that my mechatronics unit has failed, other than the solenoids? If it is bad, could I use the mechatronics unit from the donor vehicle and get the computer re-programmed? Could this be done with the GAP DII tool if I purchased one? I also see that the transmissions from 05-06 pre-#### cars are less expensive than the post-#### cars. What is the difference between these transmissions? Mine is a post-####. Could I use an earlier transmission and simply swap something out, or are there more complicated reasons they can't be used?
abran, you said that you rebuilt one of these yourself with guidance? How hard was it to do and are there many special tools needed? I think it could be a cool learning experience if it's doable. I did find another thread from someone who did it, but I'm not sure if did a complete rebuild or not: https://landroverforums.com/forum/lr...rebuild-87764/
I put a little over one more quart in to fill it up totaling up to 4+ quarts added. Tried it out and feels about the same as it did with three quarts added so I've obviously got some internal issues, as expected.
My choice is now to have it rebuilt, buy a used transmission, or try to rebuild the transmission myself (I'm not willing to shell out $3700+ for a new transmission).
I called a re-builder and waiting to hear back from him on a price and what he would include in the rebuild
If I put in a used transmission I understand that i will need to switch the mechanics because they are vin specific.Is it likely that my mechatronics unit has failed, other than the solenoids? If it is bad, could I use the mechatronics unit from the donor vehicle and get the computer re-programmed? Could this be done with the GAP DII tool if I purchased one? I also see that the transmissions from 05-06 pre-#### cars are less expensive than the post-#### cars. What is the difference between these transmissions? Mine is a post-####. Could I use an earlier transmission and simply swap something out, or are there more complicated reasons they can't be used?
abran, you said that you rebuilt one of these yourself with guidance? How hard was it to do and are there many special tools needed? I think it could be a cool learning experience if it's doable. I did find another thread from someone who did it, but I'm not sure if did a complete rebuild or not: https://landroverforums.com/forum/lr...rebuild-87764/
#17
08-17-2018, 06:17 PM
Well. you did your best. You can now move on to the next decision. If it were me, I would not buy a used transmission for one of these unless you could confirm its operation by driving the donor vehicle, or it had super low mileage that was absolutely verifiable (such as a low mileage wreck). If you decide on a rebuild, I would have a reputable shop rebuild the current transmission. Less chance of case differences (bolt locations, etc) and it was "seasoned" in your vehicle. I would stop by the shop and talk to them about what they do with these transmissions and the experience level they have with them. I doubt you'll find a shop that would R&R this trans and rebuild it for less than $3700 though. They also need to check the converter as these have had problems too... and the valve body solenoids... $$$
If abrans "new" trans had a new converter and solenoids for $3700 that might be the avenue to take... so long as you can buy one at that price.
Me... i wouldn't put that kind of money into a 2006 LR3 with 144k on it. That has to be more than half of what it's worth, and you don't know what else is wrong with it... yet. I'd part it out. That's just my .02 tho.
If abrans "new" trans had a new converter and solenoids for $3700 that might be the avenue to take... so long as you can buy one at that price.
Me... i wouldn't put that kind of money into a 2006 LR3 with 144k on it. That has to be more than half of what it's worth, and you don't know what else is wrong with it... yet. I'd part it out. That's just my .02 tho.
#18
08-18-2018, 04:54 AM
Mechatronics cannot be reprogrammed with GAP or the like. Unlikely it has failed.
in my experience all the transmissions are compatible.
rebuild is very difficult, I would say the most complicated of all the repairs you will do on an LR3. The rebuild kits come with an improved clutch pack on one of the gear sets which will leave you scratching your head as you are not using the same amount of clutches. I would not endevour on another rebuild even though I had a seasoned tech walk me through it. One special press is needed for compacting the spring plates.
after buying all the rebuild components for the trans, valve body, solenoids, and having torque converter rebuilt you will be in over $1k.
i think it is well worth it if you want to keep the vehicle. $3700 plus the time to swap for a factory trans is great piece of mind. And the trans comes pre filled with ZF fluid.
We sell rebuilt trans for $2500. Yes there is profit here, but also huge liability as we have to guarantee everything we sell.
in my experience all the transmissions are compatible.
rebuild is very difficult, I would say the most complicated of all the repairs you will do on an LR3. The rebuild kits come with an improved clutch pack on one of the gear sets which will leave you scratching your head as you are not using the same amount of clutches. I would not endevour on another rebuild even though I had a seasoned tech walk me through it. One special press is needed for compacting the spring plates.
after buying all the rebuild components for the trans, valve body, solenoids, and having torque converter rebuilt you will be in over $1k.
i think it is well worth it if you want to keep the vehicle. $3700 plus the time to swap for a factory trans is great piece of mind. And the trans comes pre filled with ZF fluid.
We sell rebuilt trans for $2500. Yes there is profit here, but also huge liability as we have to guarantee everything we sell.
#19
08-22-2018, 07:04 PM
I called the best local transmission shop and they wanted $4600 to rebuild, so that is a no-go for me.
I don't want to spend $3700 for a new transmission if I don't have to
I can get a used transmission will about 100k for $1300-1700 but there is obviously no guarantee how long it will last (other than the 6-12 month warranties)
So I think I am going to try the rebuild myself, despite your warnings. I will start by disassembling the transmission to see if any major components are damaged. I have watched several videos on rebuilding this transmission and it does seam manageable with some attention to detail and time. You may think me foolish for trying this, but even if it doesn't work I will have learned something from it. My biggest concern as far as being inexperienced is not being able to identify when something is not the way it should be, but that is something I will just have to figure out as I go. Other than that I plan to mark everything and take many pictures as I disassemble.
I am currently debating on whether to replace the torque converter and solenoids. Is there any way to tell if the torque converter is worn out? It probably is, but it would be nice to have confirmation of this. As for the solenoids I realize they are a commonly problematic and that it would make sense to replace them. But, I could easily reassemble with the current ones if they look okay and then replace them if I have an issue. I believe there is also a way to bench test their resistance to tell if they are definitely bad, so I will need to look into that.
To give you an idea of the situations: I bought this car for $2350 because I want to fix it to use it. I am currently a little over $3300 into the vehicle including tax, title, registration, towing, and transmission fluid. So for me, the vehicle is worth fixing. Even if I put a new transmission into it I am still right inline with market value. I don't really need a car most of the time as I commute by bike, so if this takes time that is okay with me.
So next step is removing the transmission. I just got a transmission jack delivered today and I will keep you posted on my progress as I teardown the transmission.
I don't want to spend $3700 for a new transmission if I don't have to
I can get a used transmission will about 100k for $1300-1700 but there is obviously no guarantee how long it will last (other than the 6-12 month warranties)
So I think I am going to try the rebuild myself, despite your warnings. I will start by disassembling the transmission to see if any major components are damaged. I have watched several videos on rebuilding this transmission and it does seam manageable with some attention to detail and time. You may think me foolish for trying this, but even if it doesn't work I will have learned something from it. My biggest concern as far as being inexperienced is not being able to identify when something is not the way it should be, but that is something I will just have to figure out as I go. Other than that I plan to mark everything and take many pictures as I disassemble.
I am currently debating on whether to replace the torque converter and solenoids. Is there any way to tell if the torque converter is worn out? It probably is, but it would be nice to have confirmation of this. As for the solenoids I realize they are a commonly problematic and that it would make sense to replace them. But, I could easily reassemble with the current ones if they look okay and then replace them if I have an issue. I believe there is also a way to bench test their resistance to tell if they are definitely bad, so I will need to look into that.
To give you an idea of the situations: I bought this car for $2350 because I want to fix it to use it. I am currently a little over $3300 into the vehicle including tax, title, registration, towing, and transmission fluid. So for me, the vehicle is worth fixing. Even if I put a new transmission into it I am still right inline with market value. I don't really need a car most of the time as I commute by bike, so if this takes time that is okay with me.
So next step is removing the transmission. I just got a transmission jack delivered today and I will keep you posted on my progress as I teardown the transmission.
#20
08-23-2018, 01:42 AM