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I think Sir Ratcliffe is going for jugular in the safari space with this move. He can make the vehicle super cheap. Think about it just center lock, none of the creature comforts and the design lends itself to a 7 seater. They already have proof of concept and first to market. The design has already been put on sale to African Safari to pre-order. That is a head start. Tough for Land Cruiser to jump on board if no one is looking because they already bought it.
my point is Toyota have owned the market for this sort of thing for a very long time. The new 70 series with its low price point will be tough to compete with.
granted the mining industry is a much more massive market but not much press shoots being done on absolutely abused mine cruisers caked in silt and moisture 24/7.
either way. Very cool by Ineos. They really are looking great.
I think Sir Ratcliffe is going for jugular in the safari space with this move. He can make the vehicle super cheap. Think about it just center lock, none of the creature comforts and the design lends itself to a 7 seater. They already have proof of concept and first to market. The design has already been put on sale to African Safari to pre-order. That is a head start. Tough for Land Cruiser to jump on board if no one is looking because they already bought it.
I don’t think Ineos can produce the Grenadier cheaper than the L663 - and certainly not cheaper than a 70 series. Most of the issues I get from the reviews I read, is the fact that the grenadier is NOT the “bare bone low cost vehicle” Ineos set out to develop - it’s actually an expensive piece of kit. I don’t see why “rural industry sectors” can not use a coil-sprung commercial Defender? Price point will be similar to Grenadier…
As already stated l think Land Rover have moved out of this area with their new vehicles.
They had already lost it with the old Defender so would have had some catching up to do.
But look at LR's order books. They've currently got 180,000 vehicles on back order worldwide.
So they have most likely decided not to pursue the Utility market because they don't need it, and they make more money from high end Mall Cruisers.
100%
Just look t the build site for Land Rover's flagship off-road icon. It is sad and becoming ever sadder. 4 or 5 22" rim options and only one 18" option after they've canned the 18" alloys. The latter steel option only available on base and S trims. Add a bigger engine, add your SOL.
Grenadier offer 17" or 18" rims in steel or alloy.
LR's tire offerings are abysmal.
Grenadier offer an LT option from the factory. Granted it's a bit smaller than ideal on the 17"s but still better than anything LR offer..
I'm all for generating sales and the market demands such things. Folks seem to love rangerovering up their Defenders, coating their shiny paint and keeping them mint for the next owner. I would just expect that given the tone of the LR dick-waving marketing campaigns, better off-road options, the ones that matter most, should be optional on all trims. Just like Grenadier.
Definitely a notable divergence in philosophy. I applaud Ineos' marketing gurus. These Safari and JUE events are good scalps.
The new LandCruiser does all of these things but that's a thread for another forum probably.
Just look t the build site for Land Rover's flagship off-road icon. It is sad and becoming ever sadder. 4 or 5 22" rim options and only one 18" option after they've canned the 18" alloys. The latter steel option only available on base and S trims. Add a bigger engine, add your SOL.
Grenadier offer 17" or 18" rims in steel or alloy.
LR's tire offerings are abysmal.
Grenadier offer an LT option from the factory. Granted it's a bit smaller than ideal on the 17"s but still better than anything LR offer..
I'm all for generating sales and the market demands such things. Folks seem to love rangerovering up their Defenders, coating their shiny paint and keeping them mint for the next owner. I would just expect that given the tone of the LR dick-waving marketing campaigns, better off-road options, the ones that matter most, should be optional on all trims. Just like Grenadier.
Definitely a notable divergence in philosophy. I applaud Ineos' marketing gurus. These Safari and JUE events are good scalps.
The new LandCruiser does all of these things but that's a thread for another forum probably.
I disagree; Just ordered the 110 250 HT without any fancy options or shiny paint. It’s meant to be a work horse around my small farm towing 3500 kg. - as well as a commercial vehicle supporting my small outdoor business. It’s not a “mall crawler” at all - and it will indeed run circles around the new so called “Land Cruiser”
(which it really isn’t! )
I disagree; Just ordered the 110 250 HT without any fancy options or shiny paint. It’s meant to be a work horse around my small farm towing 3500 kg. - as well as a commercial vehicle supporting my small outdoor business. It’s not a “mall crawler” at all - and it will indeed run circles around the new so called “Land Cruiser”
(which it really isn’t! )
Seems like we mostly agree. You ordered a lovely HT Diesel as a workhorse commercial. A spec that lets you get the VAT back from the Inland Revenue and allows you to fit 18"s albeit on rubbish tires. These are not options in the states and are arguably a very small slice of LR's worldwide market. The D250 is definitely the spec I would choose if we had all available to us here.
Don't get me wrong I do like the new Defender. After all l own one !!
The issue with the Grenadier in the U.K. is, it's not classed as a "Commercial Vehicle" for tax purposes.
Also since the recent price rises it's quite expensive, around £14,000 more expensive than the lead-in Defender Commercial.
l've got a base specification Defender 90 D250 Commercial. lt's got the 18" steel
wheels, coil spring suspension and no extra bling at all. Except for a tow bar, centre console, front fog lamps and the blue colour.
Oh and side steps, not yet fitted in the photo below. But much better with them.
lt's great for my work use, which involves some visits to farms and outlying properties.
As a Commercial Vehicle it's cost me
£40,000 after tax rebates.
The cheapest Grenadier would have been £69,000 (including a tow bar, side steps, and a few essentials such as a colour other than white)
However it's pretty much the only Defender l've seen like this. Most have all the options and extras fitted.
Last edited by lightning; Aug 18, 2023 at 01:13 PM.
Don't get me wrong I do like the new Defender. After all l own one !!
The issue with the Grenadier in the U.K. is, it's not classed as a "Commercial Vehicle" for tax purposes.
Also since the recent price rises it's quite expensive, around £14,000 more expensive than the lead-in Defender Commercial.
l've got a base specification Defender 90 D250 Commercial. lt's got the 18" steel
wheels, coil spring suspension and no extra bling at all. Except for a tow bar, centre console, front fog lamps and the blue colour.
Oh and side steps, not yet fitted in the photo below. But much better with them.
lt's great for my work use, which involves some visits to farms and outlying properties.
As a Commercial Vehicle it's cost me
£40,000 after tax rebates.
The cheapest Grenadier would have been £69,000 (including a tow bar, side steps, and a few essentials such as a colour other than white)
However it's pretty much the only Defender l've seen like this. Most have all the options and extras fitted.
This is indeed a fine vehicle. I believe a tiny bit
of the original Defender DNA comes alive in these basic specs. The tax advantage on a commercial vehicle almost cuts the price by 50% in Denmark - dependent on the spec. And with the jump seat in place you are not really missing a lot.
Seems like we mostly agree. You ordered a lovely HT Diesel as a workhorse commercial. A spec that lets you get the VAT back from the Inland Revenue and allows you to fit 18"s albeit on rubbish tires. These are not options in the states and are arguably a very small slice of LR's worldwide market. The D250 is definitely the spec I would choose if we had all available to us here.
I was not aware that the commercial is not available in the US. Without that option, I believe most - if not all - Defenders in Denmark would fit the “mall crawler” description as our vehicle taxes are among the highest in the world. No one would buy these as heavy duty work horses. Maybe this will change in the US, when Defenders are handed over to second or third owners?
