In the mean time we will make our Starbucks run wherever they may be.

LuLu Lemon pants activate!

 

I think if the deisel was available here it would sell a lot more than LR thinks it would. I for one would trade in my Defender 110 all decked out for Alaska in a heartbeat for a deisel D300. I tow a 7700 pound trailer on our travels and fuel mileage is abysmal. I can attest that the defender is one tough cookie so far I have had it floating in the water on a deep crossing and on the other one water up to the windshield and he just kept on going. I looked at the Ineos and passed on it. Not enough towing capacity for us. If I could not get steel wheels on the D300 then I would go down to a D250. Because steel wheels is what I want don’t like alloy wheels too much.

 

JLR diesels are not super reliable, especially in markets with bad fuel quality, lots of blown engines.

 

l have a new Defender with the 3.0 diesel and it's a superb engine. The 3.0 doesn't have the reliability issues that plagued the TDV6 and 2.0 lngenium diesel engines.

However l prefer petrol and if l could have got a petrol engine l would have done, despite the worse fuel economy.

But it's not available in the Defender Commercial.

 

diesel in its pure form aka mechanical Cummins is amazing, but once you put all emissions controls/urea/EGR/computers on, it's ridiculously unreliable thing.
2.0 Ingenium I4 diesel is not good, lasts 30-40K kms in some markets, 3.0 I6 looks much better.

 

I too have read the gripe that the Grenadier is not "low priced" enough "as expected." But expected by whom? The Grenadier was created and funded by a British billionaire. It's a luxury build because of how he put it all together, and the market for them will not be broad like Toyota, (because of the price). But having followed this from the beginning I don't understand how anyone could have thought the Grenadier would be inexpensive. Suggesting it to be a "bare bones low cost vehicle" seems naively hopeful. Billionaires don't live in inexpensive homes, take inexpensive vacations, or drive cheap cars. Everything done right is going to be expensive, and Ineos has been so fastidious about making it the most off road ready, why would that be inexpensive?! The Grenadier is an expensive build for folks that don't have much concern on prices; but that choice of building expensive cars is not unique (RR or Porsche 911). It's always possible future Ineos models will be lower cost than this initial Grenadier. But the initial Grenadier - from all the media they have made available - pretty clearly signaled that the cost was going to be high. All their videos touted the ability and durability of their engineering and construction. Isn't that code for "... and that's why when we do announce pricing, it will be high; be ready for that and here's our reasons ahead of time."

 

I'm guessing by anyone who read or viewed any and all of the Grenadier's pre-release marketing and/or prerelease pricing.

A simple, short of fancy doodad electronics, easy to mod platform. Getting away from the glitz of others who have gone less utilitarian.

It seems it did not meet those design goals set by Grenadier. Also it's about $25-30k higher than billed in the US.

A gripe or realistic assessment of new data. You choose.

 

The promise was a start price under £40,000

Even £50,000 (the launch start price) isn't expensive in car terms these days but the Grenadier now starts at £65,000

lt would make a difference if it was "Commercial"

The Defender Commercial effectively costs £40,000 (lead in price) after the tax is claimed through a business

Take off another £10,000 if you are VAT registered, and you can see why there's still a 12+ month waiting list

 

I was going by their released videos. I tested a LC a number of years ago and those left the US market in the $85k area, so I had that already as a reference when I started reading about Ineos. After having driven a LC, I totally got it: if you choose to buy a super strong and over engineered SUV, it's going to be expensive. Anything I read from Ineos was about capability and ruggedness, and that - to me - suggested it would be costly. Did Ineos really send out press reports suggesting these things would be $50k in the US?! I don't have access to or read any press info, and the videos from them I watched didn't cover pricing. But the materials and construction process seemed very LC like in terms of build quality, so the end price was not unexpected. Disappointing perhaps, but not unexpected. There are ways to spend $100k on a Wrangler Rubicon, so knowing that's out there, and what LC cost when it left production sales here, I think Grenadier pricing is going to exclude many potential buyers, but then again, so did the LC pricing or the top spec Rubicons. Ford offers the Bronco and the Bronco Sport, and the link between capability costing more is pretty clear when you see those two driving around; the Bronco costs way more than the Sport, but the parts and construction allow you to do more with it. Hoping Grenadier would be cheaper misses a point Ineos was trying to make with their initial SUV: they didn't want to do cheap. I don't think the end price is a haphazard by-product of bad planning. I think it's more a result of conscious choices Ineos made along the way for what parts they used. Now that Ineos is in production, the market will have to suss out reliability. It's always possible that Ineos spent what they needed to for the SUV they wanted to build, but for whatever reason, the Grenadier does not meet the real life demands of an off road environment for as long as buyers require for that initial pricing (bad value). But that will take time to determine. All we know now is that if you want one, it's priced somewhere between a Ford Bronco and a top of the line Rubicon. All are intended to be very capable off road, but none of them are inexpensive. Which has the best value is not a simple "pick the cheapest," but a consideration of reliability, dependability, and versatility of use.

 

It really was the point they were trying to make.

Their whole premise of being was to be a utilitarian affordable platform to replace the beloved ye olde Defender. A platform that could serve as a canvas to many. A minimalist package to excite the off-roader/over-lander/farmer? etc. They were solidly beating that drum of, less electronics, lower cost, less to break.

They're still beating that drum in spite of reality.

Out of the box, it's not up to snuff as stock for where I like to play. I'd need a coil lift and bigger tires.

I love that you can spec sliders and a factory winch and 17" steels. I was real excited to have my order in but reality bites. It's more expensive than my P400 SE trim and would be a challenge to have it take me places I currently go with the clearance it has.

I don't care a fig for LR heritage, spirit of Defender yada yada yada. All marketing BS to appeal to the English gent who'll probably never get it further off-road than a muddy field in Lincolnshire and pines for his leaky, rust-bucket Defender of yore. I like there are more choices and more on the way.

But to suggest that Ineos weren't looking to be a low cost competitor to other live axle platforms and leave IFS n00bs like the dolled up PretendoScubaroo in its dust is disingenuous to say the least.

I just want my play things to let me have fun. The more the better. I don't doubt I'd enjoy driving one and hopefully one day will get to do so with the OP if he ever gets time to venture out.