THIS LAND ROVER DEFENDER PAUL SMITH EDITION IS ALL KINDS OF COOL

 

LONGRANGER 4×4 | The very best inBespoke Vehiclesand Off-Road Preparation

 

Alright guys, small update. I'll be calling up RTE and ordering my radius arms some time in the next month or two assuming no unexpected costs otherwise. I'll also need a longer driveshaft in the rear of course, so I'm looking at costs on that, but I was hoping to get some ideas on that.

First, double cardon or single cardon? I am on 3.5" of lift, but the rear axle will also be moved back an additional 3".

I will definitely swap the rotoflex for a u-joint while I'm at it. If I go double cardon, can I just have them put the double cardon on the rotoflex end and flip the driveshaft around? I'd assume orientation doesn't matter, but I could be wrong.

Lastly, any idea of approximate cost to get the shaft lengthened and balanced? I've never had a driveshaft modified.

 

I have over 3 Inches of lift and got the GBR double cardan rear and rotoflex delete after taking with Bill at GBR and, honestly, my 16 year old rotoflex looked perfect when I took it off after at least two years of lifted driving. No cracks, no signs of stress. I'm not even sure I need it but it was part of my upgrade program. Bill says GBR uses longer splines so you might not need it lengthened if you get it from there. I'm not sure about the other questions. If you get Bill on the phone he's very knowledgeable and will answer all questions and then some. He has told me he gets so many emails that he can't reply to all of them so calling is best.

FWIW I haven't noticed any vibration without the rotoflex at up to 85mph. It may be fine after that but I'm a pokey driver.

I can't imagine why flipping the shaft backwards would make a difference, but I replaced a perfectly good rear driveshaft with a new one so consider the source.

I'm sure RTE or Lucky8 know all about it, too.

The front shaft seems to be the issue on higher lifts and I'm ready to get a multi double cardan front but I can't find anyone who actually uses one to answer some questions about it. I have a languishing thread about it somewhere.

I just discovered this thread so I'll be reading it front to back as soon as I finish this.

 

Cool, Charlie. How much was the GBR shaft? My rotoflex has some pretty good dry rot going on, but since I'm doing this change then I'm just leaving it for now. I might call up GR and talk to them. I was just going to use a local shop, but it all depends on cost.

I did see your multi-double cardon shaft thread. I personally think it would be find. It shouldn't flop around and create balancing issues if the centering ***** are in good shape (assuming I understand the job of the centering *****). I'll probably end up doing that in the front at some point also. I wish I could do it myself, I hate paying other people to do my work, but I don't have the right equipment to modify a driveshaft.

 

some one might want to ask Paul Grant I know this came up before and he had a very easy way to do it.

 

The rear shaft was just under 500 with the rotoflex delete flange. I was so enthralled and befuddled at all of the info he was giving me I didn't even get the final price over the phone, much less a breakdown. I just gave him my card number and hoped for the best. He threw in some new bolts and a bolt that helped removal of the stock flange on the diff. It arrived super fast. Two days I think. That price included shipping.

Knowing how you like to tinker, find cheap alternatives, the groupthink that you'll need lower gears, and lack any fear of messing up--not to mention your new welder and the fact that we are spit balling--I wonder if a Ford or Chevy axle swap from a junkyard wouldn't be better with chopped donor driveshafts and the right flange on the transfer case side of each chopped donor driveshaft. There are some that come close to our narrow axle width and those that do eliminate he need for spacers. Wheels would be easier and cheaper to find. Your outlook would be sunny and your confidence assured.

Did you finish your fender cut thoughts? I was just staring at mine. I know the flares are available but I can't seem to find a definitive "you can cut this much this way and these flares cover it all up nicely" thread anywhere.

I'm sure GBR would make a custom length driveshaft. To my knowledge they make all of them so a slightly longer tube wouldn't be a big deal. Mine is very heavy, thick, and green as compared to the stock one.

 

I had the GBR-built Spicer double-cardon front drive-shaft. I bent it when the output yoke sheared and it wedged against the transmission valve body. I replaced it with a rebuilt Discovery II front driveshaft. The DII shaft doesn't have the mass of the honking H-block whirring around. It's much smoother and quieter.

In the rear, I have a GKN u-joint (TVC100010) in place of the roto-flex. It's the stock, single-cardon D1 shaft, and I have no problems with a 3" lift and 33's. However, I do have an A-arm spacer and lower rear link spacers that adjust the pinion angle.

I only need to carry one u-joint and flange spare because all the flanges and u-joints front and rear are the same.

I have enough experience off-roading this in extreme conditions for years to be totally confident in the shafts and joints. What I mean by this is that they are not a weak-link that needs further upgrading. I had the big Spicer, and it didn't add anything. The main concern I have with any driveshaft would be pushing them against a rock. My differential guards cover the pinions, but they're still vulnerable. I suppose only a backbone tube chassis with the driveshaft inside like a Tatra truck will solve that issue, or hydrostatic drive.

 

Fascinating. What's an A Arm spacer? What's a lower link spacer?

Bill at GBR did warn me that the multi double cardan shafts were very heavy. Only after the call did I consider the implications for rotational mass. Made me think of my heavy tires, too.

 

Thanks Drow, I'll shoot him a message.

Haha, lack of any fear of messing up. I like that. I've really considered a Ford axle swap, but to be honest... I really really like the stock 16" rims. Also, I really enjoy seeing what the absolute most I can get out of the stock parts is. I'm trying to make the least changes to the stock drivetrain as possible. Axle swaps are awesome, but if I swapped axles then I'd also want to go with 4 links front and rear, and I really want to keep the stock suspension design too. It's not optimal, but it's what Land Rovers are known for. And again, I really like the rims.

I haven't done any cutting yet, I'll save that for when I actually change the arms, but my thoughts are as follows; I'm going to definitely do some heavy cutting in the rear. I may even do some cutting and welding inside to move the wheel wells back a little, or extend them back. The rear quarters are going to get hacked six ways from Sunday. The rear doors I'm going to try my damndest not to touch. The front quarters will get cut similar to the D1 camel cut, but probably more material removed. As for flares, I may not even add any back. In VA the wheels are allowed to stick out 3" past the fender, so they're not required legally, and I've never liked the look of bolt on flares that much. I'll probably just make a tool with an extra center cap for the wheels so that I can tape up the panel and use a sharpie on a string to make a nice rounded line. Then I'll very carefully cut, sand, and re-paint a little.