Terrafirma bumper installation has me stumped
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Camel Trophy
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,883
Likes: 951
From: Charlotte
I’m not sure just what measurements you are asking for but I think that’s now irrelevant. If it’s measurements of the bumper they’re not what they were when I received it. As I've said and shown her I’ve cut off parts and ground down others to get it mounted.
Thread Starter
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Camel Trophy
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,883
Likes: 951
From: Charlotte
Thanks to those of you who have read carefully, looked carefully and responded thoughtfully to my posts in this thread.
Last month I was trying to decide between the Terrafirma and Tactical bumpers. Before ordering I called Justin and asked him for his comparison of the two. His reply, loosely paraphrased, was to the effect that Tactical is a couple of guys with a welder working out of a shed while Terrafirma is a big-time manufacturer with better facilities, better quality control and a better product. At least that was my takeaway. Go figure.
At least you can talk to two guys in a shed. And Tactical at least provides a video installation guide, albeit of limited value. With Terrafirma you get no instructions, and what minimal guidance is provided in their online brochure and from two others of their resellers is incomplete to the point of being misleading. And you get a bag of hardware that doesn’t fit and includes mystery parts.
Here’s my email exchange with Justin from early last week.
Well, the box the bumper came in got cut up for recycling two weeks ago. And return it in resaleable condition? That was a peculiar thing to say given the video I posted of me cutting off parts of it. That’s why I suggested that Justin might not even want it back. Maybe he just hadn’t read the thread carefully enough.
Look, I realize the quality control problem is at Terrafirma. But it’s up to Justin to take that up with Terrafirma. Meanwhile I’ve invested at least 40 hours to get the bumper mounted, a job that should have taken a small fraction of that amount of time. And still my grill won’t work with it without being butchered well beyond what others have had to do.
Last month I was trying to decide between the Terrafirma and Tactical bumpers. Before ordering I called Justin and asked him for his comparison of the two. His reply, loosely paraphrased, was to the effect that Tactical is a couple of guys with a welder working out of a shed while Terrafirma is a big-time manufacturer with better facilities, better quality control and a better product. At least that was my takeaway. Go figure.
At least you can talk to two guys in a shed. And Tactical at least provides a video installation guide, albeit of limited value. With Terrafirma you get no instructions, and what minimal guidance is provided in their online brochure and from two others of their resellers is incomplete to the point of being misleading. And you get a bag of hardware that doesn’t fit and includes mystery parts.
Here’s my email exchange with Justin from early last week.
----- Original Message -----
From: Justin m
To: xxxx xxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2015 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: Terrafirma bumper refund
You can send it back. The bumper will need to be in its original packaging and able to be resold.
I'm sorry that you're having a hard time mounting the bumper. But as you told me before the truck was in an accident that was strong enough to bend the ARB bumper. I think you're laying blame on the terra firma product when your truck is the cause.
From: xxxx xxxxxxx <xxxxxxxx@xxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Terrafirma bumper refund
Date: July 13, 2015 at 10:01:41 AM EDT
To: justin@lucky8llc.com
Dear Justin,
I ordered a Terrafirma front bumper for my DII from you June 22. I have had a lot of trouble getting it mounted, all documented in this LRF thread.
https://landroverforums.com/forum/di...stumped-74365/
After working two weeks to install a bumper that should have bolted up in a few minutes I am throwing in the towel. I was willing to live with having had to “modify” the bumper to get it to fit but I draw the line at having to butcher my grill, well beyond the “trimming” that was expected, to be able to complete the installation. Again, please read through the LRF thread for all the details. I plan to order a different bumper from another source.
I understand the quality control problems I encountered lie with the manufacturer but my purchase was from you, not Terrafirma.
Please let me know how you’d like to proceed with processing a refund and with return of the bumper, if you want it back. Because this return is due to a manufacturing defect I will not pay return freight nor a restocking fee.
Justin wrote this after, as you can see, I asked him to read this thread. And the email exchange was after phone calls from me two weeks prior to that trying to get some help to figure out what was wrong. From: Justin m
To: xxxx xxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2015 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: Terrafirma bumper refund
You can send it back. The bumper will need to be in its original packaging and able to be resold.
I'm sorry that you're having a hard time mounting the bumper. But as you told me before the truck was in an accident that was strong enough to bend the ARB bumper. I think you're laying blame on the terra firma product when your truck is the cause.
From: xxxx xxxxxxx <xxxxxxxx@xxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Terrafirma bumper refund
Date: July 13, 2015 at 10:01:41 AM EDT
To: justin@lucky8llc.com
Dear Justin,
I ordered a Terrafirma front bumper for my DII from you June 22. I have had a lot of trouble getting it mounted, all documented in this LRF thread.
https://landroverforums.com/forum/di...stumped-74365/
After working two weeks to install a bumper that should have bolted up in a few minutes I am throwing in the towel. I was willing to live with having had to “modify” the bumper to get it to fit but I draw the line at having to butcher my grill, well beyond the “trimming” that was expected, to be able to complete the installation. Again, please read through the LRF thread for all the details. I plan to order a different bumper from another source.
I understand the quality control problems I encountered lie with the manufacturer but my purchase was from you, not Terrafirma.
Please let me know how you’d like to proceed with processing a refund and with return of the bumper, if you want it back. Because this return is due to a manufacturing defect I will not pay return freight nor a restocking fee.
Well, the box the bumper came in got cut up for recycling two weeks ago. And return it in resaleable condition? That was a peculiar thing to say given the video I posted of me cutting off parts of it. That’s why I suggested that Justin might not even want it back. Maybe he just hadn’t read the thread carefully enough.
Look, I realize the quality control problem is at Terrafirma. But it’s up to Justin to take that up with Terrafirma. Meanwhile I’ve invested at least 40 hours to get the bumper mounted, a job that should have taken a small fraction of that amount of time. And still my grill won’t work with it without being butchered well beyond what others have had to do.
I'm not trying to take sides here, but honestly we see this occasionally. These frames are very weak, and when a bumper takes a hit like yours did, the ARB is thicker than the frame. The frame could have been bent up or down, causing that misalignment of holes. It sucks that it became an issue for mounting, but I can reassure you that there is no definitive answer for this whole ordeal without mounting the bumper on another D2 that has not been in an accident.
Camel Trophy
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,079
Likes: 227
From: IL
I don't really know what the issue is but I think you're unfairly throwing Justin/Lucky8 under the bus.
I know your thread is very detailed, but how much of it did you actually convey DIRECTLY to Justin? Justin didn't make your bumper or your Land Rover. Land Rover is know for having fitment issues. Add in a little QC issue at TF, an accident with your truck, and the known weak D2 frame and there ya go.
At some point you have to say "Wait, if I start hacking up the bumper I probably won't be able to return it".
I don't think you would have gotten any better customer service from Tactical Rovers, and they probably wouldn't take back a bumper that you cut up.
I'm glad you got it mounted but before you cut anything you should have reached out to Lucky8 directly, explained the problem and compared frame measurements. You probably could have measured the TF bumper you had and compared it with another he had in stock, too.
Measure twice, cut once!!!!
I know your thread is very detailed, but how much of it did you actually convey DIRECTLY to Justin? Justin didn't make your bumper or your Land Rover. Land Rover is know for having fitment issues. Add in a little QC issue at TF, an accident with your truck, and the known weak D2 frame and there ya go.
At some point you have to say "Wait, if I start hacking up the bumper I probably won't be able to return it".
I don't think you would have gotten any better customer service from Tactical Rovers, and they probably wouldn't take back a bumper that you cut up.
I'm glad you got it mounted but before you cut anything you should have reached out to Lucky8 directly, explained the problem and compared frame measurements. You probably could have measured the TF bumper you had and compared it with another he had in stock, too.
Measure twice, cut once!!!!
Thanks to those of you who have read carefully, looked carefully and responded thoughtfully to my posts in this thread.
Last month I was trying to decide between the Terrafirma and Tactical bumpers. Before ordering I called Justin and asked him for his comparison of the two. His reply, loosely paraphrased, was to the effect that Tactical is a couple of guys with a welder working out of a shed while Terrafirma is a big-time manufacturer with better facilities, better quality control and a better product. At least that was my takeaway. Go figure.
At least you can talk to two guys in a shed. And Tactical at least provides a video installation guide, albeit of limited value. With Terrafirma you get no instructions, and what minimal guidance is provided in their online brochure and from two others of their resellers is incomplete to the point of being misleading. And you get a bag of hardware that doesn’t fit and includes mystery parts.
Here’s my email exchange with Justin from early last week.
Well, the box the bumper came in got cut up for recycling two weeks ago. And return it in resaleable condition? That was a peculiar thing to say given the video I posted of me cutting off parts of it. That’s why I suggested that Justin might not even want it back. Maybe he just hadn’t read the thread carefully enough.
Look, I realize the quality control problem is at Terrafirma. But it’s up to Justin to take that up with Terrafirma. Meanwhile I’ve invested at least 40 hours to get the bumper mounted, a job that should have taken a small fraction of that amount of time. And still my grill won’t work with it without being butchered well beyond what others have had to do.
Last month I was trying to decide between the Terrafirma and Tactical bumpers. Before ordering I called Justin and asked him for his comparison of the two. His reply, loosely paraphrased, was to the effect that Tactical is a couple of guys with a welder working out of a shed while Terrafirma is a big-time manufacturer with better facilities, better quality control and a better product. At least that was my takeaway. Go figure.
At least you can talk to two guys in a shed. And Tactical at least provides a video installation guide, albeit of limited value. With Terrafirma you get no instructions, and what minimal guidance is provided in their online brochure and from two others of their resellers is incomplete to the point of being misleading. And you get a bag of hardware that doesn’t fit and includes mystery parts.
Here’s my email exchange with Justin from early last week.
----- Original Message -----
From: Justin m
To: xxxx xxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2015 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: Terrafirma bumper refund
You can send it back. The bumper will need to be in its original packaging and able to be resold.
I'm sorry that you're having a hard time mounting the bumper. But as you told me before the truck was in an accident that was strong enough to bend the ARB bumper. I think you're laying blame on the terra firma product when your truck is the cause.
From: xxxx xxxxxxx <xxxxxxxx@xxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Terrafirma bumper refund
Date: July 13, 2015 at 10:01:41 AM EDT
To: justin@lucky8llc.com
Dear Justin,
I ordered a Terrafirma front bumper for my DII from you June 22. I have had a lot of trouble getting it mounted, all documented in this LRF thread.
https://landroverforums.com/forum/di...stumped-74365/
After working two weeks to install a bumper that should have bolted up in a few minutes I am throwing in the towel. I was willing to live with having had to “modify” the bumper to get it to fit but I draw the line at having to butcher my grill, well beyond the “trimming” that was expected, to be able to complete the installation. Again, please read through the LRF thread for all the details. I plan to order a different bumper from another source.
I understand the quality control problems I encountered lie with the manufacturer but my purchase was from you, not Terrafirma.
Please let me know how you’d like to proceed with processing a refund and with return of the bumper, if you want it back. Because this return is due to a manufacturing defect I will not pay return freight nor a restocking fee.
Justin wrote this after, as you can see, I asked him to read this thread. And the email exchange was after phone calls from me two weeks prior to that trying to get some help to figure out what was wrong. From: Justin m
To: xxxx xxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2015 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: Terrafirma bumper refund
You can send it back. The bumper will need to be in its original packaging and able to be resold.
I'm sorry that you're having a hard time mounting the bumper. But as you told me before the truck was in an accident that was strong enough to bend the ARB bumper. I think you're laying blame on the terra firma product when your truck is the cause.
From: xxxx xxxxxxx <xxxxxxxx@xxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Terrafirma bumper refund
Date: July 13, 2015 at 10:01:41 AM EDT
To: justin@lucky8llc.com
Dear Justin,
I ordered a Terrafirma front bumper for my DII from you June 22. I have had a lot of trouble getting it mounted, all documented in this LRF thread.
https://landroverforums.com/forum/di...stumped-74365/
After working two weeks to install a bumper that should have bolted up in a few minutes I am throwing in the towel. I was willing to live with having had to “modify” the bumper to get it to fit but I draw the line at having to butcher my grill, well beyond the “trimming” that was expected, to be able to complete the installation. Again, please read through the LRF thread for all the details. I plan to order a different bumper from another source.
I understand the quality control problems I encountered lie with the manufacturer but my purchase was from you, not Terrafirma.
Please let me know how you’d like to proceed with processing a refund and with return of the bumper, if you want it back. Because this return is due to a manufacturing defect I will not pay return freight nor a restocking fee.
Well, the box the bumper came in got cut up for recycling two weeks ago. And return it in resaleable condition? That was a peculiar thing to say given the video I posted of me cutting off parts of it. That’s why I suggested that Justin might not even want it back. Maybe he just hadn’t read the thread carefully enough.
Look, I realize the quality control problem is at Terrafirma. But it’s up to Justin to take that up with Terrafirma. Meanwhile I’ve invested at least 40 hours to get the bumper mounted, a job that should have taken a small fraction of that amount of time. And still my grill won’t work with it without being butchered well beyond what others have had to do.
Winching
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 628
Likes: 18
I did not say that Tactical is 2 guys working out of a shed. I said the Tactical is stronger but more industrial looking.
This is my interaction with you and it may lend some understanding as to why I was reluctant to refund your bumper the second time.
The first time you bought the bumper you asked what looked more stock. I said Tearrfirma as they are mass produced and look the more stock compared to the others in my opinion. When you ordered the TF bumper you said you needed it shipped that same day. As I told you then we were unable to ship it that day but we could ship it the next day. We prepared the bumper for shipping the next day. At some point the next day you called up our secretary and canceled the order after all the time you spent telling me you needed it shipped right away.
About two weeks later you called up and re-order the bumper again. This time you ordered it from Erik and told him it was critical that you needed it shipped right away. We shipped the bumper out the same day. Every day for the next three days you called up asking for tracking numbers. The one time you asked for a tracking number you admitted you were too busy to write it down but yet you want me to tell you what the number was and where the bumper was.
It was approximately another week when you called up and said that you were unhappy because you had to trim your grill. I think some confusion may fall on my part here. I thought you were concerned about trimming your grill to fit a winch.
After we spoke on the phone you understood that trimming the grill was not a big deal and you're going to do it. A few days after that I received an email saying you wanted to send the bumper back with a link to this thread. Quickly reading through the thread I noticed you were proud to announce you felt justified in issuing a chargeback after you cut the bumper up and using a tree for mounting purposes.
So, yes the email I sent back to you was a little reluctant on having you return the bumper for a second time after you've chopped it up on a truck that was in an accident. I am still willing to help you out if you want to give me the measurements of the holes that mount to the frame. I will measure some frames of discos we have here and a few bumpers we have in stock.
This is my interaction with you and it may lend some understanding as to why I was reluctant to refund your bumper the second time.
The first time you bought the bumper you asked what looked more stock. I said Tearrfirma as they are mass produced and look the more stock compared to the others in my opinion. When you ordered the TF bumper you said you needed it shipped that same day. As I told you then we were unable to ship it that day but we could ship it the next day. We prepared the bumper for shipping the next day. At some point the next day you called up our secretary and canceled the order after all the time you spent telling me you needed it shipped right away.
About two weeks later you called up and re-order the bumper again. This time you ordered it from Erik and told him it was critical that you needed it shipped right away. We shipped the bumper out the same day. Every day for the next three days you called up asking for tracking numbers. The one time you asked for a tracking number you admitted you were too busy to write it down but yet you want me to tell you what the number was and where the bumper was.
It was approximately another week when you called up and said that you were unhappy because you had to trim your grill. I think some confusion may fall on my part here. I thought you were concerned about trimming your grill to fit a winch.
After we spoke on the phone you understood that trimming the grill was not a big deal and you're going to do it. A few days after that I received an email saying you wanted to send the bumper back with a link to this thread. Quickly reading through the thread I noticed you were proud to announce you felt justified in issuing a chargeback after you cut the bumper up and using a tree for mounting purposes.
So, yes the email I sent back to you was a little reluctant on having you return the bumper for a second time after you've chopped it up on a truck that was in an accident. I am still willing to help you out if you want to give me the measurements of the holes that mount to the frame. I will measure some frames of discos we have here and a few bumpers we have in stock.
Recovery Vehicle
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 811
Likes: 78
From: Howell, NJ
I would charge back also, then send my bank a link to the thread, then go buy the manager a box of donuts or bagels.
Instead of standing behind your products, you flame this guy and tell him its his frame.
O.K. prove that it is his frame, get off your lazy asses and un box one and put it up to a frame.
You should thank him for doing the quality control on your products that you fail to do.
Why would you bring up that he is a pain in the ***? Whats it matter? I would never try to justify a **** product by saying "well the guy is a pain in the *** so it doesn't matter if my product sucks." especially on a public forum. You guys need to get your **** together.
Instead of standing behind your products, you flame this guy and tell him its his frame.
O.K. prove that it is his frame, get off your lazy asses and un box one and put it up to a frame.
You should thank him for doing the quality control on your products that you fail to do.
Why would you bring up that he is a pain in the ***? Whats it matter? I would never try to justify a **** product by saying "well the guy is a pain in the *** so it doesn't matter if my product sucks." especially on a public forum. You guys need to get your **** together.
Camel Trophy
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,079
Likes: 227
From: IL
Good grief, guess I should expect nothing less coming from the source. Should the OP shoulder no responsibility for hacking before measuring?
And you'd know all about fitment wouldn't you Mr Angle Iron King? Looks almost stock!
And you'd know all about fitment wouldn't you Mr Angle Iron King? Looks almost stock!
I would charge back also, then send my bank a link to the thread, then go buy the manager a box of donuts or bagels.
Instead of standing behind your products, you flame this guy and tell him its his frame.
O.K. prove that it is his frame, get off your lazy asses and un box one and put it up to a frame.
You should thank him for doing the quality control on your products that you fail to do.
Why would you bring up that he is a pain in the ***? Whats it matter? I would never try to justify a **** product by saying "well the guy is a pain in the *** so it doesn't matter if my product sucks." especially on a public forum. You guys need to get your **** together.
Instead of standing behind your products, you flame this guy and tell him its his frame.
O.K. prove that it is his frame, get off your lazy asses and un box one and put it up to a frame.
You should thank him for doing the quality control on your products that you fail to do.
Why would you bring up that he is a pain in the ***? Whats it matter? I would never try to justify a **** product by saying "well the guy is a pain in the *** so it doesn't matter if my product sucks." especially on a public forum. You guys need to get your **** together.
Recovery Vehicle
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 811
Likes: 78
From: Howell, NJ
Sold the benz-rover for 5k the other day. Dude points out the bumper and says "wow is that a jeep bumper? Cause' that fits like it was made for it." then I showed him how it was mounted. And let him know he needs to reinforce it if he intends to pull trucks out or get pulled out with it. (something I never intended on doing.) But thanks for bringing that up! Turns out a $270 bumper becomes a great selling point!