Discovery 2 LS Conversion
#611
12-02-2019, 09:14 PM
Rock Crawling
First, I hope everyone had a Happy Thanksgiving. I sent Greg (05TurboS2K) an email a few days ago offering to exchange the mounts. I’m not quite sure what was up, but it sounds like the way he slotted the holes has put the engine in close to the correct place.
As for the driveshaft articulation, there is not a whole lot of space with the stock suspension with the LS bellhousing. There are multiple causes for this: first, the LS is heavier, especially if it is an iron block, the old, worn-out factory springs will likely sag under the weight. Second, there was not a whole lot of room with the Rover bellhousing to begin with.
A 2-inch or larger lift adds space in the right direction relative to the factory position when the vehicle was stock. Over the course of beta testing, there were no complaints of articulation problems once the lift was installed, which led us to believe that in a majority of usage scenarios, the 2-inch lift was sufficient.
That being said, if you want more driveshaft clearance there are several options:
1. Clearance the bellhousing/spacer in the conflicting area. That area of the spacer is a bit thicker than the rest and the bellhousing itself could be ground down there as well. There is a lot of room in the bellhousing to accommodate a larger torque converter than what was used in factory Disco 2s.
2. Change out the driveshaft. The factory unit is thick, especially in the area that is near the bellhousing. There are manufacturers that make improved shafts for the Disco 2 that come in smaller diameters (down to 1.25 inch, maybe less) or about any other setup you could want, which, if you are off-roading, you are probably going to need anyway.
3. Raise the engine. You could easy put rubber isolators (0.25 or 0.5 inch thick, maybe more) between the motor mounts and the frame. The highest part of the engine is the A/C compressor. The A/C will likely hit the hood with this modification. The hood has an inner and outer piece. The inner part can be easily clearanced with no modification to the look.
4. Move the engine forward. If you do not want to use a viscous fan and want to go to electric instead, you can move the engine and transmission assembly closer to the radiator by about an inch. This will also cause hood interference. This may marginally help, but I probably wouldn’t recommend it.
A little of each could help as well. The point is there are a number of options.
It’s important to note that not one “kit” is going to work for everyone’s individual needs or desires. While the kit is designed to get the LS in the Discovery, much of the build is left to the user to sort out how they want to do it, so not all trucks will be the same. Additionally, variations between model years compounds this, especially between the 1999-2002 versus 2003-2004 trucks.
As usual, email is the fastest way for me to answer questions. As people have gotten into their installs, I have had an increase in the quantity of questions, which has severely limited my time to watch the forums. A lot of questions are specific to each build, meaning that it wouldn’t be relevant to post all answers. If there are common themes, I will make sure to post them.
As for the driveshaft articulation, there is not a whole lot of space with the stock suspension with the LS bellhousing. There are multiple causes for this: first, the LS is heavier, especially if it is an iron block, the old, worn-out factory springs will likely sag under the weight. Second, there was not a whole lot of room with the Rover bellhousing to begin with.
A 2-inch or larger lift adds space in the right direction relative to the factory position when the vehicle was stock. Over the course of beta testing, there were no complaints of articulation problems once the lift was installed, which led us to believe that in a majority of usage scenarios, the 2-inch lift was sufficient.
That being said, if you want more driveshaft clearance there are several options:
1. Clearance the bellhousing/spacer in the conflicting area. That area of the spacer is a bit thicker than the rest and the bellhousing itself could be ground down there as well. There is a lot of room in the bellhousing to accommodate a larger torque converter than what was used in factory Disco 2s.
2. Change out the driveshaft. The factory unit is thick, especially in the area that is near the bellhousing. There are manufacturers that make improved shafts for the Disco 2 that come in smaller diameters (down to 1.25 inch, maybe less) or about any other setup you could want, which, if you are off-roading, you are probably going to need anyway.
3. Raise the engine. You could easy put rubber isolators (0.25 or 0.5 inch thick, maybe more) between the motor mounts and the frame. The highest part of the engine is the A/C compressor. The A/C will likely hit the hood with this modification. The hood has an inner and outer piece. The inner part can be easily clearanced with no modification to the look.
4. Move the engine forward. If you do not want to use a viscous fan and want to go to electric instead, you can move the engine and transmission assembly closer to the radiator by about an inch. This will also cause hood interference. This may marginally help, but I probably wouldn’t recommend it.
A little of each could help as well. The point is there are a number of options.
It’s important to note that not one “kit” is going to work for everyone’s individual needs or desires. While the kit is designed to get the LS in the Discovery, much of the build is left to the user to sort out how they want to do it, so not all trucks will be the same. Additionally, variations between model years compounds this, especially between the 1999-2002 versus 2003-2004 trucks.
As usual, email is the fastest way for me to answer questions. As people have gotten into their installs, I have had an increase in the quantity of questions, which has severely limited my time to watch the forums. A lot of questions are specific to each build, meaning that it wouldn’t be relevant to post all answers. If there are common themes, I will make sure to post them.
Looks like I didn't catch the email coming through a few days back but exactly as you pointed out, re-drill seemed to put things on point. Thanks though for replying on it and hope ya had yourself a happy Thanksgiving a well!
In regards to the clearance issue, my perhaps presumptuous guess is that nobody actually fully flexed out their Disco to find out it would hit the drive shaft, though it will I believe unless their shocks are the limiting factor in compression which....isn't a good thing. While lifts move the problem away, they only do so while on road, otherwise the bump stops are the only thing that should be limiting upward travel.
1. I noted the same you did, there's a lot of meat in that particular area, however, there is a limitation possibly in that the starter has to fit in there too but that probably won't come into play. The spacer as well as the bell-housing really won't suffer IMO in regards to their role by being shaved down quite a bit. I think this is probably a move everyone should make if they ever intend to go off-road with their vehicle. It only should take a few minutes to gain some room with no cost.
2. The front shaft of these vehicles is already a major issue and often in need of replacement, I only know of 3 general options used and I don't know their diameters at this point, perhaps someone can chime in with some measurements who owns some of these?
3. I thought about raising the motor but in my case (LM4) I have contact with the hood already though I haven't cleared the factory sound proofing to for the small gain it'd offer. The A/C compressor in mine is right there along with it.
4. I think it'd be into the hood if I went this route in my case. If I went with an aftermarket low profile intake, that'd buy more than 2 inches but it's another cost and it means that the A/C unit will be my next issue which is a fraction of an inch behind it if I'm to guess. Again as pointed out by ACE, every motor could be a little different in this respect and in the particular year of the Disco.
I'll bust out the grinder and do my best to follow contours and not punch through it, however even if I did cut an entire section out and install a filler plate that wouldn't be that uncommon in the world of swaps and off-road vehicles. I'll take some photos of before/after doing this for others to use as a guide if they run into the same issue.
Last edited by 05TurboS2K; 12-03-2019 at 07:37 AM.
The following users liked this post:
Matt Brown (12-03-2019)
#612
12-12-2019, 12:00 PM
I've enjoyed all the detailed information that you all have shared.
Is ACE still in business?
Ive been trying to contact the company the past 2 weeks with no luck..
Tried the web contract number, filled out the email request & even sent a personal message to ACEngineer but still nothing no response back?
When you look on the ACE site everything is sold out.
Just seeing if anyone has any info on company, or a better way of contact.
lm hoping they are taking a early Christmas Break and back @ it after start of New Year.
We are starting a new company & planning on using these kits in our future Disco Builds.
PBO
Is ACE still in business?
Ive been trying to contact the company the past 2 weeks with no luck..
Tried the web contract number, filled out the email request & even sent a personal message to ACEngineer but still nothing no response back?
When you look on the ACE site everything is sold out.
Just seeing if anyone has any info on company, or a better way of contact.
lm hoping they are taking a early Christmas Break and back @ it after start of New Year.
We are starting a new company & planning on using these kits in our future Disco Builds.
PBO
Last edited by PBO Overland; 12-14-2019 at 07:52 PM.
#613
12-13-2019, 05:09 PM
#614
12-14-2019, 05:54 PM
Super Moderator
@05TurboS2K you should have bump stops up front to limit axle travel. Good to know about the up travel issue. I know more than a few folks are wheeling with an LS powered D2 but the one I have physically seen the owner made his own kit
#615
12-14-2019, 07:36 PM
Rock Crawling
He responded here on this forum on 12-02-19. Just a week and a half ago. I suspect they might be bogged down with orders and tech support and the holidays. Generally speaking he's been quite solid in upholding his end and providing support when contacted.
As for the response about bumps stops, well, we all have the factory bump stops but I'm hoping not to have to add any length to them unless I'm doing so due to a tire size increase which without raising the fender line, is the only appropriate reason to do so.
As for the Transmission questions, I know very little of that subject, hopefully someone else can elaborate here, or perhaps it's best to start a new thread on that subject, fellow Audiophile nut.
*** hmmm and the multi-quote option doesn't work very well for me on this forum, or I foolishly didn't use it properly ***
As for the response about bumps stops, well, we all have the factory bump stops but I'm hoping not to have to add any length to them unless I'm doing so due to a tire size increase which without raising the fender line, is the only appropriate reason to do so.
As for the Transmission questions, I know very little of that subject, hopefully someone else can elaborate here, or perhaps it's best to start a new thread on that subject, fellow Audiophile nut.
*** hmmm and the multi-quote option doesn't work very well for me on this forum, or I foolishly didn't use it properly ***
#616
12-14-2019, 07:46 PM
#617
12-14-2019, 08:28 PM
Super Moderator
@05TurboS2K ok wording had me thinking yours had fallen off lol.
If there is a contact issue I would look at the extended bump stops to limit upwards travel. Better to loose a bit than loose a shaft or trans
If there is a contact issue I would look at the extended bump stops to limit upwards travel. Better to loose a bit than loose a shaft or trans
#618
12-15-2019, 07:57 AM
Is ACE still in business?
Ive been trying to contact the company the past 2 weeks with no luck..
Tried the web contract number, filled out the email request & even sent a personal message to ACEngineer but still nothing no response back?
When you look on the ACE site everything is sold out.
Just seeing if anyone has any info on company, or a better way of contact.
lm hoping they are taking a early Christmas Break and back @ it after start of New Year.
We are starting a new company & planning on using these kits in our future Disco Builds.
PBO
Ive been trying to contact the company the past 2 weeks with no luck..
Tried the web contract number, filled out the email request & even sent a personal message to ACEngineer but still nothing no response back?
When you look on the ACE site everything is sold out.
Just seeing if anyone has any info on company, or a better way of contact.
lm hoping they are taking a early Christmas Break and back @ it after start of New Year.
We are starting a new company & planning on using these kits in our future Disco Builds.
PBO
#619
12-15-2019, 08:05 AM
Rock Crawling
@05TurboS2K ok wording had me thinking yours had fallen off lol.
If there is a contact issue I would look at the extended bump stops to limit upwards travel. Better to loose a bit than loose a shaft or trans
If there is a contact issue I would look at the extended bump stops to limit upwards travel. Better to loose a bit than loose a shaft or trans
Indeed better the bumpstop than the bell-housing. I'm really just not wanting to lose much upward travel for no reason.
Sorry no updates folks, I've been on 80hr+ work weeks since the last day on I worked on the Rover. I hope to make some progress on Christmas week at worst.
#620
12-15-2019, 01:48 PM
I want to thank everyone for the support that this project has had from the community. It has been a long road bringing these kits to fruition. In the beginning this started just as a personal project and morphed from there. While getting this all together was a large task and there were several large bumps along the way, most every problem has been surmountable to this point.
However, it has lately become clear that I cannot proceed with making more kits. When I conducted our beta testing, most of the individuals using the kit were people with fabrication experience. From that experience, I was able to estimate a rough number of questions asked per kit to give us an idea of the tech support I would need to provide. I assumed that this number would go up when selling to the general public. However, it increased several times over what was expected.
This is a complicated swap – there is no way around that. There are a number of parts to the kit, and the electrical can be particularly difficult. Despite trying to simplify this as much as possible, it is easy to get confused. Likewise, it is also very difficult to provide technical support over the phone or email, especially without seeing the truck in person. Furthermore, the Discovery has some inherent challenges. There are a significant amount of model year variations in the Disco electrical systems, which can make virtually identical swaps behave differently, further complicating technical support.
I have run through a number of options to try to retain some level of production, but there does not seem to be any feasible options at this time. I have considered selling the mechanical parts of the kit separately, slowing production, or selling the kit stipulated with no technical support. None of those really seem like practical options since for most people, the electrical is the hardest part and where support is needed the most. I also looked into increasing the price to match the average amount of technical support provided per kit, but that unfortunately makes it financially impractical for the average purchaser.
While as a Land Rover owner and fellow enthusiast, I really want to see this continue, I just see no other way forward. As many of you know, this is not the only thing I do for a living. Keeping up with the kits in addition to my job and family has unfortunately become problematic lately. I don’t have the time to provide the level of support needed for this and continue my other obligations.
I intend to support the individuals that have purchased the kit and I will continue to answer questions as needed. Once again, I really appreciate all the support.
However, it has lately become clear that I cannot proceed with making more kits. When I conducted our beta testing, most of the individuals using the kit were people with fabrication experience. From that experience, I was able to estimate a rough number of questions asked per kit to give us an idea of the tech support I would need to provide. I assumed that this number would go up when selling to the general public. However, it increased several times over what was expected.
This is a complicated swap – there is no way around that. There are a number of parts to the kit, and the electrical can be particularly difficult. Despite trying to simplify this as much as possible, it is easy to get confused. Likewise, it is also very difficult to provide technical support over the phone or email, especially without seeing the truck in person. Furthermore, the Discovery has some inherent challenges. There are a significant amount of model year variations in the Disco electrical systems, which can make virtually identical swaps behave differently, further complicating technical support.
I have run through a number of options to try to retain some level of production, but there does not seem to be any feasible options at this time. I have considered selling the mechanical parts of the kit separately, slowing production, or selling the kit stipulated with no technical support. None of those really seem like practical options since for most people, the electrical is the hardest part and where support is needed the most. I also looked into increasing the price to match the average amount of technical support provided per kit, but that unfortunately makes it financially impractical for the average purchaser.
While as a Land Rover owner and fellow enthusiast, I really want to see this continue, I just see no other way forward. As many of you know, this is not the only thing I do for a living. Keeping up with the kits in addition to my job and family has unfortunately become problematic lately. I don’t have the time to provide the level of support needed for this and continue my other obligations.
I intend to support the individuals that have purchased the kit and I will continue to answer questions as needed. Once again, I really appreciate all the support.
The following users liked this post:
danyboyGA (08-19-2022)