Cool. I wasn't sure on the process used. Thanks for the info.

 

The fire ring is outside the piston liner. If it were over the liner you would not see the amount of failures on the engines. The liner would be sandwiched between the lower register and the head as it was torqued down. Anyone can use a custom copper gasket made specifically to the bore diameter. This would trap the liner properly.

MAK

 

Could you maybe elaborate on that idea? I am not a mechanic, just a parts changer but that sounds better than drilling holes in my block.

 

The liner woujld only be properly secured if it were pressed in all of the way to the register when it was manufactured. From what I have seen for pictures of slipped liners, they are all below the deck level. You can also see gaps between the machined register and the bottom of the liner in cylinders that haven't had a liner move.

 

Toad,

Be cautious of advice from folks with limited post counts is all I'll say.

A copper gasket will do nothing at all in this case, and will likely be less reliable overall than a properly developed gasket like Reinz or Elrings when exposed to cold/hot cycles and heat soaks.

Also, the ID of the firing ring of the OE gaskets is almost identical to the ID of the liner. The OD of the firing ring is approx 120 thou (maybe a little larger), than the OD of the standard liner. The liner is machined to a taper at the top, so when the stock liner decides to move upwards, this thin, sharp edge hammers the steel firing ring, in extreme cases, seperating the ring from the gasket...
A copper gasket will not stand up to this any better than the OE gasket.

Also, note that- loose liners is the term generally accepted for the case when the engine is not loosing coolant but the liners are moving (seems to happen a lot on D2's, especially the 4.6), wheras "slipped liners" is what has been happening to the Rover V8 for donkeys years where the block cracks, forcing coolant between the liner and block and then occasionally encouraging the liner to move. There are many blocks where they didn't have the step at the bottom, which allowed the liner to "drop". This seemed to be from D1 vintage or older (HRC2411)- but definately prior to the D2 vintage blocks (casting # LCF000250) all of which have the step.

There are three proven ways to deal with loose liners.
1) New / replacement block
2) Flanged / top hat liners
3) Pinned OE liners

Or you can do nothing. Unless you want to be a pioneer, I'd be very wary of someone who says you can just do X or Y and it'll work, without providing any other info.

 

Dux,
What year motor is that from? Looks like a 8.94CR, so that can't be a D2 motor. Was it yours? Did this block actually have the step? Do you know the casting number of that block?

 

Please keep your personal assessments of others knowledge to yourself. I would ask that you provide specifications of the gasket I.D. vs. the liner O.D. I'll bet you that the fire ring is not at the same diameter as the liner. Once again, I would like accurate measurements.

Proper surface preparation is essential to any motor sealing up properly. Copper gaskets have been used in many applications. From Super mod motors as well as everyday drivers. There are other manufactures that can make a custom gasket for your needs. Cometic is one. http://www.cometic.com/custom-gaskets.aspx

Can I ask what you are providing to the community here for upgrades?

I have developed the stud mount rocker arm system to be sold to enthusiasts who want a more reliable and accurate valve train.

I have reprogrammed the fuel mapping tables on the Bosch 5.2 ecu. with help from many others in this field. It is available to others if they should choose to want it.

My software engineering and mechanical engineering gives me more flexibility than most others. You also need a adequate machine shop or capabilities as I have to make this a reality. I provide part numbers that work in the Rover to others in need.

I am here to help, not knock one down based on post count. Please have a happy and safe holiday.

MAK

 

04duxlr,

After looking at your picture I would imagine that if there was a machined register that it would be deformed heavily from the liner dropping severely. There would be nothing that could be done other than top hatting it with LA sleeves ROVE1 liners.

Is this is an early block without a register? If so this explains the liner's excessive downward movement. With the register, the amount of drop would be limited in most normal circumstances.

MAK

If the liner can move down, can it move upward as well? If it moves upward, what part gets destroyed that is softer than the spun cast liner? The void from a blown head gasket allows even more liner movement. Overheating causes a loss of piston to wall clearance and the seize condition causes even more up and down loading on the liner than is normal.

 

Sorry for any confusion. I attached the wrong image. The pictures below are from 4.6's. The gap between the top of the liner and the deck is what seems to be typical. If the liner moves down, then the liner must not have been pressed all the way to the register when it was initially assembled. The liner can slip down, then once loose can also move up. The damaged head is out of a 2003 DII.

 

04duxlr,

In looking at your updated pictures, what is there to stop someone from having the liners pressed down to the register and then decking the block? I've yet to see anyone post these thoughts. After pressing the liners to the register and a hone and deck, You could have Cometic make a specific head gasket to allow the fire ring to mate on top of the liner. I think this would be another fool proof solution to a sound block.

Not as good as a top hat, should a leak develop behind the liner due to stress.

MAK