Yippee! I'm Overheating
I'm not so sure I would trust the Google search algorithim to provide the most accurate information at the top of the pile. I've got a 93 Mercedes with 300,000 miles and green coolant, no erosion of radiators and other aluminum parts with my green antifreeze. Ditto for Asian trucks I've owned with green coolant and 290,000 plus miles. But I change mine. IMHO the bigger problem is failure to change antifreeze every 2 years or 30,000 miles like the book tells you to do, and constant refill with non-distilled water. Besides, you can't see the flakes of aluminum in the coolant for all the stop leak people pour in, and some of that has flakes to begin with.
The D1 radiator is brass and copper, so even less aluminum to deal with in the cooling system. Good old fashion calcium growing every hour of every day, different rates based on temperature, but chemical processes don't care if the truck is paid for, parked for a pedicure, putting along, or put out to pasture in the salvage yard.
The Dexcool or later versions (HOAT) are designed for 150,000 miles of service, if not added to by tap water or other coolants. But you will have less trouble if you swap it out every 2 years.
Here's some extra info on the coolants, they all use glycol in one form or another.
The main ingredient in the vast majority of automotive antifreeze on the market today is ethylene glycol. Virgin ethylene glycol is produced from ethylene which is produced in the petrochemical industry by steam cracking. Steam cracking is a process that reduces complex hydrocarbons into simpler hydrocarbons, and is used to produce the many products that come from crude oil and other complex hydrocarbons. (Jet fuel, gasoline, diesel fuel, motor oil, ethylene and propylene glycol, etc.)
The main uses for ethylene glycol are listed below.
Coolant
The major use of ethylene glycol is as an automotive antifreeze. Due to its low freezing point, it is also used as a deicing fluid for windshields and aircraft. Ethylene glycol is also commonly used in chilled water air conditioning systems that place either the chiller or air handlers outside, or systems that must cool below the freezing temperature of water.
Manufacturing
Ethylene glycol has become increasingly important in the plastics industry for the manufacture of polyester fibers and resins, including polyethylene terephthalate, which is used to make plastic bottles for soft drinks. The rapidly expanding economies of China and India have led a worldwide increase in demand for ethylene glycol, and have helped to fuel recent price increases.
The antifreeze capabilities of ethylene glycol allow it to be used for airplane deicing and have made it an important component of vitrification mixtures for low-temperature preservation of biological tissues and organs.
Obviously, the purity requirements for soft drink bottles, deicing and preservation of biological tissues is much greater that it needs to be for automotive antifreeze or chiller fluid, and virgin EG is required for those applications.
Antifreeze Types
Automotive antifreeze/coolant is made of ethylene glycol, water, and a chemical additive package. For many years, there was only one type of antifreeze on the market, conventional green. Antifreeze technology, however, has become significantly more complex in the last several years with the introduction of Dexcool and other extended life antifreeze formulas. There are three main types of antifreeze on the market. They all contain an ethylene glycol base, water, dye and an additive package. Colored dye is added for leak detection and is not a reliable way of identifying coolant type. The additive package is what makes them different.
Conventional green antifreeze formulations usually contain a number of inorganic corrosion inhibitors that provide immediate corrosion protection because they maintain the pH of the solution (buffer it), but are consumed or transformed chemically as they perform their functions. As the coolant is heated and cooled, and exposed to air, the components of the conventional antifreeze additive package are depleted over time. This causes the pH to drop, and is why the coolant should be changed out every two years or 24,000 miles.
Dexcool-type extended life coolants use organic acid technology to inhibit corrosion, and are referred to as OAT based coolants. OAT antifreezes are touted as having longer potential service life than conventional antifreezes because of the fact that the components in the additive package are not chemically consumed as they perform their function of inhibiting corrosion. The chemicals used in the OAT type formulas protect metals from corrosion by forming a thin, molecular coating on them, and because of this, are not as fast acting as conventional inorganic formulas. However, as long as the cooling system is kept sufficiently full and coolant is not lost due to leakage nor diluted by top-off with water or conventional antifreeze, it will continue to function properly. Unfortunately, if the cooling system is not properly maintained, a “red muck” is likely to form and could cause serious cooling system problems.
The third type of antifreeze on the market today is the hybrid OAT, known as HOAT (or G O-5). One of the primary problems with OAT formulations is that they are not compatible with conventional antifreezes. The chemicals used in OAT antifreeze react to some extent with some of the inorganic salts and other components in conventional antifreeze. The result of this interaction is the generation of cloudiness and precipitates. HOAT formulations are called hybrid because the additive package contains ingredients from both OAT and conventional formulas and is compatible with both.
Hybrid OAT antifreezes provide both fast acting and extended life corrosion protection, eliminate the problem of anti- freeze compatibility, and therefore are compatible with all types and colors of antifreeze.
Unfortunately, many automotive professionals consider all extended life antifreeze to be “Dexcool” and associate all the problems related to “Dexcool” with both OAT and HOAT formulas. The result of this misconception is often replacing the extended life coolant with conventional green. Industry experts say that this can be done safely if all of the green antifreeze is removed from the system. However, auto manufacturers recommend specific formulations and replacing the factory fill coolant with a different type that doesn’t meet the manufacturer’s specifications could cause liability issues down the road. A much safer solution is to replace OAT systems with HOAT coolant which meets OAT specifications.
In the Cooling System
Regardless of the type of antifreeze used, the additive package will eventually break down and cease to provide adequate corrosion protection. The antifreeze will also pick up contaminants from the engine cooling system. In other words, antifreeze wears out and gets dirty. The service life for conventional green antifreeze is 2 years or 24,000 miles, and for OAT and HOAT is 5 years or 150,000 miles, and the manufacturers recommend fluid replacement at these intervals. However, although the antifreeze loses its corrosion protection and picks up contaminants, the ethylene glycol base does not break down and remains intact. In other words, the ethylene glycol retains its ability to lower the freeze point and raise the boiling point of the solution.
The D1 radiator is brass and copper, so even less aluminum to deal with in the cooling system. Good old fashion calcium growing every hour of every day, different rates based on temperature, but chemical processes don't care if the truck is paid for, parked for a pedicure, putting along, or put out to pasture in the salvage yard.
The Dexcool or later versions (HOAT) are designed for 150,000 miles of service, if not added to by tap water or other coolants. But you will have less trouble if you swap it out every 2 years.
Here's some extra info on the coolants, they all use glycol in one form or another.
The main ingredient in the vast majority of automotive antifreeze on the market today is ethylene glycol. Virgin ethylene glycol is produced from ethylene which is produced in the petrochemical industry by steam cracking. Steam cracking is a process that reduces complex hydrocarbons into simpler hydrocarbons, and is used to produce the many products that come from crude oil and other complex hydrocarbons. (Jet fuel, gasoline, diesel fuel, motor oil, ethylene and propylene glycol, etc.)
The main uses for ethylene glycol are listed below.
Coolant
The major use of ethylene glycol is as an automotive antifreeze. Due to its low freezing point, it is also used as a deicing fluid for windshields and aircraft. Ethylene glycol is also commonly used in chilled water air conditioning systems that place either the chiller or air handlers outside, or systems that must cool below the freezing temperature of water.
Manufacturing
Ethylene glycol has become increasingly important in the plastics industry for the manufacture of polyester fibers and resins, including polyethylene terephthalate, which is used to make plastic bottles for soft drinks. The rapidly expanding economies of China and India have led a worldwide increase in demand for ethylene glycol, and have helped to fuel recent price increases.
The antifreeze capabilities of ethylene glycol allow it to be used for airplane deicing and have made it an important component of vitrification mixtures for low-temperature preservation of biological tissues and organs.
Obviously, the purity requirements for soft drink bottles, deicing and preservation of biological tissues is much greater that it needs to be for automotive antifreeze or chiller fluid, and virgin EG is required for those applications.
Antifreeze Types
Automotive antifreeze/coolant is made of ethylene glycol, water, and a chemical additive package. For many years, there was only one type of antifreeze on the market, conventional green. Antifreeze technology, however, has become significantly more complex in the last several years with the introduction of Dexcool and other extended life antifreeze formulas. There are three main types of antifreeze on the market. They all contain an ethylene glycol base, water, dye and an additive package. Colored dye is added for leak detection and is not a reliable way of identifying coolant type. The additive package is what makes them different.
Conventional green antifreeze formulations usually contain a number of inorganic corrosion inhibitors that provide immediate corrosion protection because they maintain the pH of the solution (buffer it), but are consumed or transformed chemically as they perform their functions. As the coolant is heated and cooled, and exposed to air, the components of the conventional antifreeze additive package are depleted over time. This causes the pH to drop, and is why the coolant should be changed out every two years or 24,000 miles.
Dexcool-type extended life coolants use organic acid technology to inhibit corrosion, and are referred to as OAT based coolants. OAT antifreezes are touted as having longer potential service life than conventional antifreezes because of the fact that the components in the additive package are not chemically consumed as they perform their function of inhibiting corrosion. The chemicals used in the OAT type formulas protect metals from corrosion by forming a thin, molecular coating on them, and because of this, are not as fast acting as conventional inorganic formulas. However, as long as the cooling system is kept sufficiently full and coolant is not lost due to leakage nor diluted by top-off with water or conventional antifreeze, it will continue to function properly. Unfortunately, if the cooling system is not properly maintained, a “red muck” is likely to form and could cause serious cooling system problems.
The third type of antifreeze on the market today is the hybrid OAT, known as HOAT (or G O-5). One of the primary problems with OAT formulations is that they are not compatible with conventional antifreezes. The chemicals used in OAT antifreeze react to some extent with some of the inorganic salts and other components in conventional antifreeze. The result of this interaction is the generation of cloudiness and precipitates. HOAT formulations are called hybrid because the additive package contains ingredients from both OAT and conventional formulas and is compatible with both.
Hybrid OAT antifreezes provide both fast acting and extended life corrosion protection, eliminate the problem of anti- freeze compatibility, and therefore are compatible with all types and colors of antifreeze.
Unfortunately, many automotive professionals consider all extended life antifreeze to be “Dexcool” and associate all the problems related to “Dexcool” with both OAT and HOAT formulas. The result of this misconception is often replacing the extended life coolant with conventional green. Industry experts say that this can be done safely if all of the green antifreeze is removed from the system. However, auto manufacturers recommend specific formulations and replacing the factory fill coolant with a different type that doesn’t meet the manufacturer’s specifications could cause liability issues down the road. A much safer solution is to replace OAT systems with HOAT coolant which meets OAT specifications.
In the Cooling System
Regardless of the type of antifreeze used, the additive package will eventually break down and cease to provide adequate corrosion protection. The antifreeze will also pick up contaminants from the engine cooling system. In other words, antifreeze wears out and gets dirty. The service life for conventional green antifreeze is 2 years or 24,000 miles, and for OAT and HOAT is 5 years or 150,000 miles, and the manufacturers recommend fluid replacement at these intervals. However, although the antifreeze loses its corrosion protection and picks up contaminants, the ethylene glycol base does not break down and remains intact. In other words, the ethylene glycol retains its ability to lower the freeze point and raise the boiling point of the solution.
I just posted this exact same thing in the K&N-turned-supercharger thread, but it seems relevant here.
Olds FAQ -- Jetfire
Coolant System
I was just reading an article about the 215 V-8 and it said that aluminum from the block and heads would eventually make it's way into the coolant and experience an electrolytic reaction with the copper in the rad, causing the rad to clog and leading to overheating. How's your rad look?
Olds FAQ -- Jetfire
Coolant System
I was just reading an article about the 215 V-8 and it said that aluminum from the block and heads would eventually make it's way into the coolant and experience an electrolytic reaction with the copper in the rad, causing the rad to clog and leading to overheating. How's your rad look?
I would expect formulas of that point in time were quite different than what we enjoy today. To me the key to healthy coolant is new coolant, not five year old coolant. I would also expect that the premix gives a more uniform quantity of all chemicals in proper quantities, vs a jug of 100% antifreeze and whatever water from water hose is required to top it off.
I found that the same rad is used in some Range Rovers, I just had an adapter issue with the tranny cooler line. I was so proud of my partz vulturez skills, about $50 at salvage yard. Got it installed, cranked up, no leaks, even when it warmed up. Then I went back inside the truck and holy cow, the oil light never went out. Oil cooler side of used rad was 95% blocked. Got my original rodded out. So OK to do used, but check all three of the radiators that are built as one unit, and have it flushed and rodded out before install if time permits. Thought I also saw a post where someone was planning on using a rad from Summitt Racing warehouse, perhaps with aftermarket oil and tranny coolers.
The Summit IDEA was a BUST BUT Speedway motors has some stuff used on a sprint car that had my attention for trans and oil cooling. Radiator wise the mounting would be the only problem I could see another set back might be going with race parts. BUT $189.00 for a radiator then add the coolers for a trans is $39.00 using air and oil is $42.99 stacked plate from AFCO. If I was building a fun truck that would be my choices
Almost every new car manufacturer uses stop leak on new cars.
That is a fact. GM does it....no shocker here. It usually comes in the form of a wax pill and or square wax tablet placed in the tank and will desolve when the motor runs up to temp first.
When I restored my 1985 IROC I spoke with the GM plant employee who built my IROC and he verified this.
Ask somebody who has ever worked a while at a plant.
I
Yes, but it becomes a question of voulme. The tablet has enough material to deal with anything small in a brand new squeaky clean cooling system. But two jugs of Blue Devil may get it stopped enough to trailer it to the auto auction. All that extra quarts of material will go somewhere, and if it can find something rough or small to attach to (like calcium or sludge restricted radiator passages) it will block them off. Does such a great job that the heater core stops leaking, the radiator quits dripping and all seems well in March. Just wait until August, when you need a 100% radiator instead of one that have been reduced in capacity from the inside out.
I have a friend who retired from Flint, she worked in the block test shop, they ran up at 212F, to see if head gaskets and such would hold. Had hot water pipes they connected to each engine.
I have a friend who retired from Flint, she worked in the block test shop, they ran up at 212F, to see if head gaskets and such would hold. Had hot water pipes they connected to each engine.
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General Range Rover Discussion - Archived
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