brakes bled, but, feels off
#11
02-18-2014, 04:57 PM
Rock Crawling
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Oregon, north of Salem
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"I got my information from the #1 sticky on our forum
ABS Mod - LAND ROVER CLUB V.I.
In the module fix Option 1 where he takes the brake lines off of the module, at the end on steps 14c, 14d, and 14e, he talks about going for a drive after bleeding and trying to get the TC, ABS and HDC to kick in and then bleeding again. "
"From his post:
14C. Bleed the brakes. You can use the traditional method with a helper following this sequence: Rear Right, Rear Left, Front Right, Front left. Pedal may still feel spongy."
"14D. Go for a test drive and try to get the ABS and TC to kick on. Find a good incline to test HDC or on a flat ground, accelerate and let off the Pedal and HDC should kick in, slowing you down. This MAY help get some trapped air out."
______________________________
14D may work; I wouldn't know, but for certain, the air, all air, must be forced out of the ABS modulator. My Hawkeye diagnostic tool has a function for doing exactly that, electronically bleeding air out of the modulator, so that is what I used, to complete satisfaction. I am sure that other diagnostic tools will do it just as completely, and certainly the dealer test book will do it too. I had problems same as you are now having, until I used my Hawkeye to bleed air out of the modulator, ending by following up with normal manual bleed of whole system; it worked for me.
14E. Re- bleed the brakes, manually, moving from right rear to left rear, to right front, ending with left front.
ABS Mod - LAND ROVER CLUB V.I.
In the module fix Option 1 where he takes the brake lines off of the module, at the end on steps 14c, 14d, and 14e, he talks about going for a drive after bleeding and trying to get the TC, ABS and HDC to kick in and then bleeding again. "
"From his post:
14C. Bleed the brakes. You can use the traditional method with a helper following this sequence: Rear Right, Rear Left, Front Right, Front left. Pedal may still feel spongy."
"14D. Go for a test drive and try to get the ABS and TC to kick on. Find a good incline to test HDC or on a flat ground, accelerate and let off the Pedal and HDC should kick in, slowing you down. This MAY help get some trapped air out."
______________________________
14D may work; I wouldn't know, but for certain, the air, all air, must be forced out of the ABS modulator. My Hawkeye diagnostic tool has a function for doing exactly that, electronically bleeding air out of the modulator, so that is what I used, to complete satisfaction. I am sure that other diagnostic tools will do it just as completely, and certainly the dealer test book will do it too. I had problems same as you are now having, until I used my Hawkeye to bleed air out of the modulator, ending by following up with normal manual bleed of whole system; it worked for me.
14E. Re- bleed the brakes, manually, moving from right rear to left rear, to right front, ending with left front.
#12
02-19-2014, 08:24 AM
I'm not sure why you're arguing with me - the OP had an issue with the brakes not feeling right, and I stated the CORRECT way to fix the problem, which had not yet been mentioned in the thread.
Not taking shortcuts usually goes a long way with these vehicles - and I wouldn't mess around when it comes to brakes anyways... just saying.
Hydraulic fluid doesn't really MOVE in one direction away from the modulator, it (for the most part) simply moves back and forth as the pedal is depressed and returned. In these small diameter lines the air bubbles usually travel with the fluid (again, back and forth.. unless a bleeder is cracked). Activating the modulator with testbook (OR any other equipped computer, as SuperSport mentioned) WHILE following the bleeding procedure in RAVE will get you the best / most reliable results.
Also I feel as if there's some doubt as to the importance of addressing the ABS modulator in relation to this problem... again, if the master cylinder is removed, this step simply can't be skipped. With the angle of the hard lines going into the modulator, it's impossible to avoid LARGE amounts of air from entering the modulator since the line usually drains out prior to connection.
If you wanted to attempt to get the ABS to activate, I would definitely do this on a really loose surface so as to avoid beating up the disco too bad - discos are very heavy and it takes a LOT to get a tire to break loose (on a hard surface that is, since the down force usually offsets the momentum).
Even then in a best case scenario you only JUST released air out of the modulator, it still has to travel the length of the entire lines - likely all four lines, and you likely still have some air in the modulator too. When my indy shop activated the program on the modulator, it took a long time (maybe 10-15 seconds) before the noise/pitch of the modulator changed. You can do whatever you want, but I just want to provide you with as much info as possible so you can make the right call.
Again, I just went through this last Friday after swapping my master cylinder. It's a wonderful feeling when you finally get the brakes back to "like new" shape though! For me it had been about 3 years since she was sitting for most of that time in repair.
Not taking shortcuts usually goes a long way with these vehicles - and I wouldn't mess around when it comes to brakes anyways... just saying.
Hydraulic fluid doesn't really MOVE in one direction away from the modulator, it (for the most part) simply moves back and forth as the pedal is depressed and returned. In these small diameter lines the air bubbles usually travel with the fluid (again, back and forth.. unless a bleeder is cracked). Activating the modulator with testbook (OR any other equipped computer, as SuperSport mentioned) WHILE following the bleeding procedure in RAVE will get you the best / most reliable results.
Also I feel as if there's some doubt as to the importance of addressing the ABS modulator in relation to this problem... again, if the master cylinder is removed, this step simply can't be skipped. With the angle of the hard lines going into the modulator, it's impossible to avoid LARGE amounts of air from entering the modulator since the line usually drains out prior to connection.
If you wanted to attempt to get the ABS to activate, I would definitely do this on a really loose surface so as to avoid beating up the disco too bad - discos are very heavy and it takes a LOT to get a tire to break loose (on a hard surface that is, since the down force usually offsets the momentum).
Even then in a best case scenario you only JUST released air out of the modulator, it still has to travel the length of the entire lines - likely all four lines, and you likely still have some air in the modulator too. When my indy shop activated the program on the modulator, it took a long time (maybe 10-15 seconds) before the noise/pitch of the modulator changed. You can do whatever you want, but I just want to provide you with as much info as possible so you can make the right call.
Again, I just went through this last Friday after swapping my master cylinder. It's a wonderful feeling when you finally get the brakes back to "like new" shape though! For me it had been about 3 years since she was sitting for most of that time in repair.
Last edited by EstorilM; 02-19-2014 at 08:27 AM.
#13
02-19-2014, 08:28 AM
@ SuperSport- I did leave the shop and I am glad it wasn't far from home, it appears I still had some air in the lines causing the braking to not function correctly. I recruited the gf to assist me in bleeding them. So far all seems right, brakes as she should and she got some quality time with me as she says, two birds one stone, lol.
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